Promoting/Demoting Minor League Players

[sloanrobe]

Any tips on when to promote or demote a minor leaguer or how long to leave them at a certain level? I am only about one month into an online league, but I see a lot of notices on my Minor League System report that certain players are "Possible ready for..." or "Probably overmatched at...".

Are these the signs I need to know when to move a player up or down a level? How do some of you decide?

[Pdubya64]

You need to check under Organization/Minor Leagues for an overall look at each of your minors teams.

For each team, to the right of a player's name is a small "block" with horizonal lines; here is where you have most likely already seen a RED down arrow or GREEN up arrow. This is the Minor AI telling you what it thinks of a given player's position relative to his talent/readiness level.

You can also go up to the top right ACTION and the bottom choice from the pull-down menu is "Have AI configure Minor League teams only" (something close to that, I am not in the game atm). This will give you a decent baseline if you are just starting a playthrough.

A side note; you will find that certain levels in the minors (typically A to A+, but it can vary) will have LOTS of players with RED arrows. Unfortunately, you need as close to the 26 player limit as possible, so watch your number of players at each level so the team can actually play games and have enough guys on the team at the right positions.
You will get the hang of it after a while. Note that when you sign free agents they almost always appear in one of your lower R or Dev. leagues. You will need to remember to check right away, look for the telltale GREEN arrows. You can hover over a player name to pull up his quick chart and see the level of league(s) he has or was last in (cutoff by box size at times). Then I will start advancing him up the levels until the GREEN arrow goes away.

As you can see there is quite a bit to it, but it isn't too difficult. Also, know that having minors Hitting and Pitching coaches and Head coaches who aren't terrible has a direct influence on minor league players learning and advancing their skills.

Good luck!

[andyhdz]

Originally Posted by sloanrobe

Any tips on when to promote or demote a minor leaguer or how long to leave them at a certain level? I am only about one month into an online league, but I see a lot of notices on my Minor League System report that certain players are "Possible ready for..." or "Probably overmatched at...".

Are these the signs I need to know when to move a player up or down a level? How do some of you decide?

You're going to get a lot of answers because on this because everyone seems to have their own system. For instance many don't even pay attention to those green and red arrows. Some just stick to having the AI do the moving up and down. Some control ALL the minor league players and decide to move them or cut them. What I do is I do let the AI make the moves but I lock out the top prospects so only I can decide when to move them. I initially let the AI decide where they belong at the start (sometimes I disagree and move them to another level to start) and I lock them out and check back mid-season. I'll decide then to promote or leave them there to finish out the season. Very rarely do I demote unless its clear he's struggling. At the end of the season I start over and again the AI moves them to where it thinks they should be and rinse and repeat.

There is one thing to remember, players in AAA never reach their full potential until they make it to the bigs so don't wait for them to be fully maxed out and then decide ok now he's ready. I don't know why but the game says those last few rating maxes you'll get in the majors. Maybe I'm wrong but I've noticed this is the case more often than not. The majors are supposed to speed up development anyway so you dont want to waste those prime mlb ready years in AAA. I've had good luck calling them up in september and good luck waiting until the start of the season and sometimes it's because of an injury that they are needed and that's that. I guess it mimics real life pretty well.

[cmcgill]

This is a pretty thorough treatment of the subject. Of course, one size doesn't fit all, but it could be helpful.
https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=316759

[Biggio509]

I usually move up when ratings are high enough or I see a WAR above 1.00. Ratings can be wrong war isn't. Pitchers are a little different I look at all the pitching stats to decide.

Granted this is for the real prospects. I plug and play scrub prospects where they are needed. My low A is usually my worst team carrying a bunch of 20/20 guys with a few prospects who just came up from rookie.

Honestly, I think I am going back to locking real prospects and letting the AI handle the rest. It is kind of a pain in July-early September with all the moves on to and off the IL. Things really pile up after midseason with guys coming off the IL as well as guys going on.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Every player is different. When I feel their stats and ratings justify a promotion I do it. If they are getting their butts handed to them on a platter once promoted I demote them. Just what "justify" means depends on each player.

[jpeters1734]

yeah, i wrote a guide on this very topic. it's in my sig block. it's a couple years old but still checks out...for the most part

[Hrycaj]

Originally Posted by andyhdz

There is one thing to remember, players in AAA never reach their full potential until they make it to the bigs so don't wait for them to be fully maxed out and then decide ok now he's ready. I don't know why but the game says those last few rating maxes you'll get in the majors. Maybe I'm wrong but I've noticed this is the case more often than not. The majors are supposed to speed up development anyway so you dont want to waste those prime mlb ready years in AAA. I've had good luck calling them up in september and good luck waiting until the start of the season and sometimes it's because of an injury that they are needed and that's that. I guess it mimics real life pretty well.

Does anyone else feel the bolded part is accurate? I'm not saying it isn't. I don't know, and as a stats only player I would like to hear what others think. I would like to know if I'm baking my players too long since I'm only using stats.

[Biggio509]

Originally Posted by Hrycaj

Does anyone else feel the bolded part is accurate? I'm not saying it isn't. I don't know, and as a stats only player I would like to hear what others think. I would like to know if I'm baking my players too long since I'm only using stats.

Not saying it is or it isn't but the green arrow is supposed to mean the current level is too easy for a player which hurts development. You see green arrows in AAA. So I would go as far to say that a player will never max out in AAA. Some average players will. However, I have my doubts a true star will max in AAA. I think you will have to move him up.

I am not really sure there is an answer to if you are baking players too long. To me it really depends on needs. If I don't necessarily need the player immediately I will let him sit. If I won't need him for a couple of years because I have a long term contract in that position I trade him. If I need him I am not going to let him sit and will take the chance I hurt development a little by moving him up too quick.

I don't think a guy will get to 70/80 sitting in AAA. He will get to 45 or 50/80 there though. So if it is an average starter say 50 or 55 then there isn't a ton of harm. If it is a future start it could really delay them.

I don't think you want to hold your high star or blue guys too long in AAA if they are doing well but for mid star or yellow rated guys it won't hurt anything. The in between better than average but not star green rated guys (60 to 65 out of 80) probably need to get moved up as soon as ready as well.

[Biggio509]

Originally Posted by Hrycaj

Does anyone else feel the bolded part is accurate? I'm not saying it isn't. I don't know, and as a stats only player I would like to hear what others think. I would like to know if I'm baking my players too long since I'm only using stats.

I think this brings up another question that I don't have answer for. Is limited time being a backup in the majors better for development than playing full time at in AAA where he might be the best player? I am not sure on that one.

If I have a guy tearing up AAA who looks like he can start and I don't have a starting spot open I trade him for what I need or more prospects. So the question becomes moot. If I have a contract coming up in the next year or 2 I might keep him until a spot is open. So I don't worry as much about if keeping that at level is hurting development as much as do I need him soon if not what I can get for him.

[andyhdz]

Originally Posted by Hrycaj

Does anyone else feel the bolded part is accurate? I'm not saying it isn't. I don't know, and as a stats only player I would like to hear what others think. I would like to know if I'm baking my players too long since I'm only using stats.

I'm the one that wrote that and I think the game gets it right. AAA star prospects seem to get stuck on a rating right below if you just leave them there and they don't truly reach their max until they are in the majors. They learn a lot more on the bench in the bigs than being the star in AAA and then truly blossom soon after. I think there is documentation on that (developing faster in bigs then minors if ready) if I recall. That also makes sense if you think about it.

[Hrycaj]

Originally Posted by Biggio509

I think this brings up another question that I don't have answer for. Is limited time being a backup in the majors better for development than playing full time at in AAA where he might be the best player? I am not sure on that one.

If I have a guy tearing up AAA who looks like he can start and I don't have a starting spot open I trade him for what I need or more prospects. So the question becomes moot. If I have a contract coming up in the next year or 2 I might keep him until a spot is open. So I don't worry as much about if keeping that at level is hurting development as much as do I need him soon if not what I can get for him.

I know this one (I think). I believe it would be the same. A player that is sitting on the bench in the minors will have development hindered. However, a guy on the MLB bench does not. In your scenario he is playing full time in AAA. Straight from the manual below:

Playing time- Minor league players who get little playing time might not develop as quickly as others. However, major league players and players on a reserve roster develop normally even without playing time.

[Biggio509]

Didn't know about major league players developing normally even if they don't play. Or I did and had forgotten.

[Cod]

Originally Posted by cmcgill

This is a pretty thorough treatment of the subject. Of course, one size doesn't fit all, but it could be helpful.
https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=316759

Remains one of the best posts I've seen on this site.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by Hrycaj

Does anyone else feel the bolded part is accurate? I'm not saying it isn't. I don't know, and as a stats only player I would like to hear what others think. I would like to know if I'm baking my players too long since I'm only using stats.

I’m a firm believer that when a player is ML ready, 5 or 50, then they shouldn’t remain in the minors. Unless AAA is loaded with talent, they will not reach their full potential if they remain in AAA once MLB ready.

Originally Posted by Cod

Remains one of the best posts I've seen on this site.

Well, thank you

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Biggio509

Not saying it is or it isn't but the green arrow is supposed to mean the current level is too easy for a player which hurts development. You see green arrows in AAA. So I would go as far to say that a player will never max out in AAA. Some average players will. However, I have my doubts a true star will max in AAA. I think you will have to move him up.

I am not really sure there is an answer to if you are baking players too long. To me it really depends on needs. If I don't necessarily need the player immediately I will let him sit. If I won't need him for a couple of years because I have a long term contract in that position I trade him. If I need him I am not going to let him sit and will take the chance I hurt development a little by moving him up too quick.

I don't think a guy will get to 70/80 sitting in AAA. He will get to 45 or 50/80 there though. So if it is an average starter say 50 or 55 then there isn't a ton of harm. If it is a future start it could really delay them.

I don't think you want to hold your high star or blue guys too long in AAA if they are doing well but for mid star or yellow rated guys it won't hurt anything. The in between better than average but not star green rated guys (60 to 65 out of 80) probably need to get moved up as soon as ready as well.

Yea the green arrows I think (could be wrong though) are mostly based on the ratings, and therefore of course are not always correct. I'd actually like to se the arrows abolished in lieu of a system where you can get feedback from coaches individually. Different coaches MAY have different opinions from their peers, but perhaps you can get some sort of consensus from the Manager?

It feels to me that the arrows are based on generic game AI that is independent of staff and their abilities/preferences.

[mbi]

It's due to my goals, but I tread these arrows like they're a scout who came up to me at the end of a meeting. They're a good guideline, but I mainly manage my minor league system mainly off age + stats.

There is no ride or die "do this always" type of thing, but if a guy appears ready (whatever that requirement might be to me) then he gets promoted. If someone repeats or gets sent down (like a roaving catcher who is simply a minor league injury replacement guy, not someone I have MLB aspirations for), it's fine, so long as I understand they are depth and not someone who I think should provide true MLB value.

[Hrycaj]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Yea the green arrows I think (could be wrong though) are mostly based on the ratings, and therefore of course are not always correct. I'd actually like to se the arrows abolished in lieu of a system where you can get feedback from coaches individually. Different coaches MAY have different opinions from their peers, but perhaps you can get some sort of consensus from the Manager?

It feels to me that the arrows are based on generic game AI that is independent of staff and their abilities/preferences.

This idea would definitely beef up the coaching model.

[Hrycaj]

[QUOTE=jpeters1734;4908132]I’m a firm believer that when a player is ML ready, 5 or 50, then they shouldn’t remain in the minors. Unless AAA is loaded with talent, they will not reach their full potential if they remain in AAA once MLB ready.



I get that. I asked because as a stats only player I don't have those ratings to guide my decisions. It just made me think that I'm possibly hurting the development of some players waiting for them to post stats that would justify a promotion. I'm starting to think that is not the best strategy. I probably need to take a hybrid approach where I consider stats and the arrows which admittedly I never paid much attention to as I found them to be a bit "gamey".

[jpeters1734]

[QUOTE=Hrycaj;4908259]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

I’m a firm believer that when a player is ML ready, 5 or 50, then they shouldn’t remain in the minors. Unless AAA is loaded with talent, they will not reach their full potential if they remain in AAA once MLB ready.



I get that. I asked because as a stats only player I don't have those ratings to guide my decisions. It just made me think that I'm possibly hurting the development of some players waiting for them to post stats that would justify a promotion. I'm starting to think that is not the best strategy. I probably need to take a hybrid approach where I consider stats and the arrows which admittedly I never paid much attention to as I found them to be a bit "gamey".

This is the fundamental problem with stats only. You have no frame of reference for how a player plays other than stats. IRL, managers see the player in practice and even if he's struggling at the plate, the manager can still play him out of confidence that he'll correct it.

Playing stats only is like a manager only seeing his players during games and not all day, every day. Player ratings are simply a virtual representation of what a manager sees every day. A manager is also going to know who his best hitters are, one through 9, and he's not going to strictly rely on stats.

Sorry, I know you weren't asking for my opinion on stats-only. But it relates to your question.