Fun with Promotion/Relegation!

BBGiovanni · 06-19-2022, 04:08 PM

I think the last time I finished up a P/R season I posted about this, but once again I'm amazed how fun/dramatic the stretch run in a P/R league is.

I'm playing the Pirates in the second tier of my AABBA setup, and they've been literally tied with the Marlins for the second/final promotion spot for like 6 weeks. Philadelphia is in first, but they haven't run away with it so up until the last week they could have stumbled back into a three way scrum. Now they're 4 up with 6 to play, probably safe. PIT and MIA don't have any head-to-head games in the last week so it will be 6 days of hectic scoreboard watching.

But that's just a regular pennant race. The fascinating thing in some of these P/R leagues is the DEPTH of the races. I JUST (

) discovered the "wild card" table, and it shows the top four teams in line for playoff berths and everyone else. Puerto Rico is 4 games out of the last spot with 6 to play but they're 8--2 in their last 10 and probably better than their record. At the other end of the world, Portland is bad but Tampa is wretched and slumping and Milwaukee has awakened from a year-long slumber so there's still some drama in the relegation zone.

That all means there are only SIX teams out of 16 that don't have something directly at stake in the last week of the season. But literally every one of those teams, at least in the next to last series of the season, is playing a team scrambling for a playoff berth or trying to avoid relegation. There's no hiding. It's great. And this race isn't even the tightest.

In the top tier, Toronto is running away with the pennant, and the top 5 slots are basically spoken for. And the 2 teams promoted last year are going back where they came from, RIP Baltimore and Charlotte. But that last playoff spot... with 6 games to go FOUR Teams are separated by two games, and the Cubs still even have mathematical life. In the PBL only six teams have nothing to play for, and that's just because BAL/CHA are so rotten Atlanta easily stayed out of relegation. And 2nd place, which means a first round playoff tournament bye, has been neck and neck for months, if not half the year, between the Gothams and Sunrays.

But like last year the real dogfight is down in the third tier, the Interstate League. Here too the pennant is decided with Nashville running away with it. And another big tug-of-war for the second promotion/bye spot with San Antonio coming back furiously to try to get back up to the MBL where they started. And Las Vegas and Sacramento are pretty safely in the postseason. Like the PBL the last playoff spot is up for grabs with four teams all within 3 games.

The part that REALLY makes this a big cage match is the scrum at the bottom. Indianapolis is in 12th place, but they're only 5 games ahead of Ottawa (sadly about to become the first Canadian team to be relegated). And they're only 3 ahead of Salt Lake, currently in the second relegation spot.

That means there is only ONE team, Durham, that has nothing to directly play for in the last week of the season. New Orleans is 5 games out of the last playoff spot so in all likelihood they'll join that list soon... BUT. That's only two out of 16 teams. And did you notice the LAST PLACE team has only 85 losses? How's that for a change from whole MLB divisions where only one team is above .500?

And this is all with the game-created round robin 150 game schedule that makes head to head matchups rare. I can't wait for next season because Ruwisc just made me a true 150 game round robin schedule that starts with two rounds of 2 game series so that all teams have played each other 4 times in the first couple months of the season. Then it shifts to 3 game home and home series for the rest of the year, so there will be four meetings with each team, no more hiding from the tough guys or beating up on the bums.

Anyway, this is my annual appeal for people to try out a promotion/relegation game! Especially if you are a simmer, I play almost all my games out (and an annual international tournament too) so I've only seen a couple years of evolution. Try it and see!

BBGiovanni · 06-20-2022, 12:08 PM

I'm putting together a table for my site to keep track of which teams move up and down each year (I haven't found a simple way to access this in v.21 but anyway). I thought the raw numbers were interesting.

Across all 8 leagues I have a total of 28 promotion/relegation slots per year. After the second season of play (2022) 14 out of those 28 slots, precisely 50%, were filled by teams that DIDN'T just get moved up or down the prior year. No newly-promoted teams managed to get promoted twice in a row (my Pirates missed by 3 games

) and only a couple came close to getting relegated twice in a row.

I was surprised by the numbers I think because I mostly watched the top two tiers during the season, and of those 6 P/R slots only one was a new mover. Baltimore and Charlotte fell back into the lower league, Miami and Philadelphia won their way back up, and Milwaukee fell back down into the 3rd tier, so only the (really bad) Tampa Bay team was a new relegee. And that was the league I played in, so my Pirates may have skewed the results.

I think 50% new turnover overall is pretty promising, I'll be curious to see how it holds up going forward, and I'm going to watch the top tiers to see if some settings are off. I notice the finances in the 3rd tier where I intend to play next year are crazy with teams having $150M+ salary room which is weird with $450k minimum salary.

Just

for others trying it out!

jg2977 · 06-20-2022, 02:56 PM

I'm starting one soon, with all of the NHL team names, so it should be pretty interesting to follow. It will be 2 tiers of 16 teams each, at the beginning I'll just be promoting/relegating 1 team in each tier per season. Maybe I should increase it to 2 or 3. It will be an 82 game season, just like the regular NHL.

Do you have playoffs in your P/R leagues? Or just give the championship to the first place team in the regular season, like the English Premier League?

BBGiovanni · 06-20-2022, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jg2977

I'm starting one soon, with all of the NHL team names, so it should be pretty interesting to follow. It will be 2 tiers of 16 teams each, at the beginning I'll just be promoting/relegating 1 team in each tier per season. Maybe I should increase it to 2 or 3. It will be an 82 game season, just like the regular NHL.

Do you have playoffs in your P/R leagues? Or just give the championship to the first place team in the regular season, like the English Premier League?

Each league has a playoff tournament, the top 2 teams are promoted and get byes and 4 wild cards play off. The 1st place team wins the "pennant", so there are bragging rights for that as well as the tournament trophy winner.

I don't have an association-type playoff among all the league winners. I've thought about tournament formats but I didn't want to deal with the side effects of an association.

Good luck

Edit: you didn't ask but I'd have at least 2 teams promoted/relegated. It really helps tighten up the competition when more teams are at risk of relegation I think.

jg2977 · 06-20-2022, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBGiovanni

Each league has a playoff tournament, the top 2 teams are promoted and get byes and 4 wild cards play off. The 1st place team wins the "pennant", so there are bragging rights for that as well as the tournament trophy winner.

I don't have an association-type playoff among all the league winners. I've thought about tournament formats but I didn't want to deal with the side effects of an association.

Good luck

Edit: you didn't ask but I'd have at least 2 teams promoted/relegated. It really helps tighten up the competition when more teams are at risk of relegation I think.

Thanks for your suggestions. I was actually thinking about splitting up my league even further and having 4 divisions with 8 teams each, and pro/rel the top 2 and bottom 2 in each. That would be wild, and just about every team would be involved.

06-19-2022, 04:08 PM	#1
BBGiovanni All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Republic of California Posts: 1,874	Fun with Promotion/Relegation! I think the last time I finished up a P/R season I posted about this, but once again I'm amazed how fun/dramatic the stretch run in a P/R league is. I'm playing the Pirates in the second tier of my AABBA setup, and they've been literally tied with the Marlins for the second/final promotion spot for like 6 weeks. Philadelphia is in first, but they haven't run away with it so up until the last week they could have stumbled back into a three way scrum. Now they're 4 up with 6 to play, probably safe. PIT and MIA don't have any head-to-head games in the last week so it will be 6 days of hectic scoreboard watching. But that's just a regular pennant race. The fascinating thing in some of these P/R leagues is the DEPTH of the races. I JUST () discovered the "wild card" table, and it shows the top four teams in line for playoff berths and everyone else. Puerto Rico is 4 games out of the last spot with 6 to play but they're 8--2 in their last 10 and probably better than their record. At the other end of the world, Portland is bad but Tampa is wretched and slumping and Milwaukee has awakened from a year-long slumber so there's still some drama in the relegation zone. That all means there are only SIX teams out of 16 that don't have something directly at stake in the last week of the season. But literally every one of those teams, at least in the next to last series of the season, is playing a team scrambling for a playoff berth or trying to avoid relegation. There's no hiding. It's great. And this race isn't even the tightest. In the top tier, Toronto is running away with the pennant, and the top 5 slots are basically spoken for. And the 2 teams promoted last year are going back where they came from, RIP Baltimore and Charlotte. But that last playoff spot... with 6 games to go FOUR Teams are separated by two games, and the Cubs still even have mathematical life. In the PBL only six teams have nothing to play for, and that's just because BAL/CHA are so rotten Atlanta easily stayed out of relegation. And 2nd place, which means a first round playoff tournament bye, has been neck and neck for months, if not half the year, between the Gothams and Sunrays. But like last year the real dogfight is down in the third tier, the Interstate League. Here too the pennant is decided with Nashville running away with it. And another big tug-of-war for the second promotion/bye spot with San Antonio coming back furiously to try to get back up to the MBL where they started. And Las Vegas and Sacramento are pretty safely in the postseason. Like the PBL the last playoff spot is up for grabs with four teams all within 3 games. The part that REALLY makes this a big cage match is the scrum at the bottom. Indianapolis is in 12th place, but they're only 5 games ahead of Ottawa (sadly about to become the first Canadian team to be relegated). And they're only 3 ahead of Salt Lake, currently in the second relegation spot. That means there is only ONE team, Durham, that has nothing to directly play for in the last week of the season. New Orleans is 5 games out of the last playoff spot so in all likelihood they'll join that list soon... BUT. That's only two out of 16 teams. And did you notice the LAST PLACE team has only 85 losses? How's that for a change from whole MLB divisions where only one team is above .500? And this is all with the game-created round robin 150 game schedule that makes head to head matchups rare. I can't wait for next season because Ruwisc just made me a true 150 game round robin schedule that starts with two rounds of 2 game series so that all teams have played each other 4 times in the first couple months of the season. Then it shifts to 3 game home and home series for the rest of the year, so there will be four meetings with each team, no more hiding from the tough guys or beating up on the bums. Anyway, this is my annual appeal for people to try out a promotion/relegation game! Especially if you are a simmer, I play almost all my games out (and an annual international tournament too) so I've only seen a couple years of evolution. Try it and see! __________________ Let's Go (San Jose) Giants, Let's Go Mets! Current Project: WBAT/AABBA: Organized Base Ball And the "New Normal" World Baseball Aid Tournament 2023 trophy round underway!

06-20-2022, 12:08 PM	#2
BBGiovanni All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Republic of California Posts: 1,874	Promotion/Relegation stats... I'm putting together a table for my site to keep track of which teams move up and down each year (I haven't found a simple way to access this in v.21 but anyway). I thought the raw numbers were interesting. Across all 8 leagues I have a total of 28 promotion/relegation slots per year. After the second season of play (2022) 14 out of those 28 slots, precisely 50%, were filled by teams that DIDN'T just get moved up or down the prior year. No newly-promoted teams managed to get promoted twice in a row (my Pirates missed by 3 games ) and only a couple came close to getting relegated twice in a row. I was surprised by the numbers I think because I mostly watched the top two tiers during the season, and of those 6 P/R slots only one was a new mover. Baltimore and Charlotte fell back into the lower league, Miami and Philadelphia won their way back up, and Milwaukee fell back down into the 3rd tier, so only the (really bad) Tampa Bay team was a new relegee. And that was the league I played in, so my Pirates may have skewed the results. I think 50% new turnover overall is pretty promising, I'll be curious to see how it holds up going forward, and I'm going to watch the top tiers to see if some settings are off. I notice the finances in the 3rd tier where I intend to play next year are crazy with teams having $150M+ salary room which is weird with $450k minimum salary. Just for others trying it out! __________________ Let's Go (San Jose) Giants, Let's Go Mets! Current Project: WBAT/AABBA: Organized Base Ball And the "New Normal" World Baseball Aid Tournament 2023 trophy round underway!

06-20-2022, 02:56 PM	#3
jg2977 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 23,777	I'm starting one soon, with all of the NHL team names, so it should be pretty interesting to follow. It will be 2 tiers of 16 teams each, at the beginning I'll just be promoting/relegating 1 team in each tier per season. Maybe I should increase it to 2 or 3. It will be an 82 game season, just like the regular NHL. Do you have playoffs in your P/R leagues? Or just give the championship to the first place team in the regular season, like the English Premier League? Last edited by jg2977; 06-20-2022 at 02:57 PM.