Question on park factors "auto Calculate" using stadium mods

seasideda · 08-22-2021, 01:01 PM

I recently downloaded Silvams historical stadiums (playing teams and using stadiums from the 30's and 40's)

If I use the park factors auto calculate the ball park factors change. (I guess based on wall height, wind patterns and altitude)

Should I auto calculate the stadiums in my league when using the mods or just leave them as they are? Do the mods factor in all of the mentioned above? Just curious as to how they come up with the park factors?

Example Fenway Park 1940-1969"

Silvam ballpark
Avg. 1.022
doubles 1.157
triples .755
hrs .902

Auto Calculate (changes to)
Avg. 1.021
doubles 1.138
triples 1.104
hrs. .800

With mods playing at Fenway, with no auto calculate, I guess I would see more hr's but less triples vs auto calculate?

Thank you and enjoying the game so much more with the enhanced ballparks!!

macprivateer · 09-12-2021, 01:21 PM

I'm not an expert but (I believe) the issue you're seeing is that there are different formulas to determine the actual ballpark factors. I think either the formula has changed over time for ootp or the actual formula was not fully defined to the modders community (again, just guessing here). The point being there's potentially a disconnect in terms of the actual calculations.

Regardless of why, you also questioned what should you do when you can get two park factors for the same stadium (e.g., Silvam's 1940 Fenway vs recalc'd OOTP's "Silvam's 1940 Fenway"). I have even had two stadiums showing like completely opposite "types" of parks doing this. As in the modder's park factors show the ballpark to be a pitcher's park while the recalc from ootp makes it a hitter's park.

Yep, can get a bit confusing.

I don't believe there really is a "right answer" to this quandary. I mean, it really only matters to you what you want the ballpark to be. If you want Fenway to be a place of more triples or less triples (and those numbers you quoted above although fairly different, would probably not have such a significant impact on your gameplay, so you could conceivably pick either and not really notice the difference).

In terms of the levers of the recalc, yes if you play with wall heights or the wind or whatever and do a recalc you'll get a new set of park factors. From which we can deduce the park factor formula within the game is not the same one modders use, since without changing any parameters you can see often vast differences in the park factors between the two.

To me it comes down to materiality. There are so many factors that go into the play and the statistical output from ootp, and park factors are so very complex IMO, it just depends on the differences you are seeing vs. your desires.

And finally, yes, the impact would be more HRs and less Triples IF you went with Silvam's numbers. Although those HR differences are pretty small, but yes the park factors you use will impact the statistical output of the game.

RchW · 09-12-2021, 03:24 PM

AutoCalc in OOTP has nothing to do with park factors. Its sole use is to modify league stat output to match a desired result (such as a past season).

Sweed · 09-13-2021, 11:50 PM

Answered in your duplicate thread....

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=331541

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweed

I would use the factors supplied by silvam with the parks. Pretty sure after he took the time to build the parks he either...

A. took the time to set the parks up with factors based on historical stats

or

B. used, with permission, somebody else's historical factors. Again based on historical stats.

When done correctly each factor's category will add up to 1.0 (IE in it's simplest form for every park that has a +.1 there is another that has a -.1). If you autocalc all of these parks again, based on those criteria autocalc uses, you will unbalance your league.

Keep in mind OOTP is not based on physics and the autocalc ballpark factors feature was requested by users to try to manufacture factors based on some physics. I'm sure it uses some formulas that will produce realistic results but, the autocalc factor feature is more of a shortcut for those making fictional ballparks. Where the historical ballpark factors file uses the real historical stats to determine the factors for each park.

silvam14 · 09-14-2021, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweed

Answered in your duplicate thread....

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=331541

Ehh, I wish I did either of those things. The fact is I used Eriq Jaffe’s2d stadium builder to come up with the factors. Sorry.

The thing is though is that last year I believe the game used the historical factors that were in the era_ballparks file regardless of what I had put in my prk file. This however got reverted back and no longer works that way. I know Markus is aware of it, but I’m not sure if it will be fixed or not.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sweed · 09-14-2021, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvam14

Ehh, I wish I did either of those things. The fact is I used Eriq Jaffe’s2d stadium builder to come up with the factors. Sorry.

The thing is though is that last year I believe the game used the historical factors that were in the era_ballparks file regardless of what I had put in my prk file. This however got reverted back and no longer works that way. I know Markus is aware of it, but I’m not sure if it will be fixed or not.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the info. Yeah, I thought at one time there was a historic park factor file. I just assumed it was incorporated into your parks or.. you had done your own while creating. V21 is the first time I tried historical and have started another in v22 that I run from time to time around my "full time" on going game.

So there's no way to import those era-ballpark file historical factors? Seems to a noncoder, like myself, they should be able to pull those numbers and use them? However, since I know nothing of coding other than "if-then" I fully acknowledge I have no idea how hard this might be to do

In any case thanks for clarifying.

Pelican · 03-12-2022, 09:20 PM

So, I’m confused. If, or example, I set new dimensions for a renovated Baker Bowl in 1938 (on the ballpark editor screen), what do I need to do to make sure the game uses those new dimensions to determine home runs and so forth? I used the autocalc and the revised factors seemed consistent with moving the RF fence back thirty feet. Is that illusory? In game play, are those cheap home runs going to be caught as fly balls? My goal was to put the Phillies in a somewhat more neutral environment, though not as severe a change as when they moved to Shibe Park, on July 4, 1938 IRL. Is there something more (hopefully, not involving coding) that I need to do? At this point, I’m not worrying about the physical appearance of the park. I realize that would involve learning design.

eriqjaffe · 03-17-2022, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvam14

Ehh, I wish I did either of those things. The fact is I used Eriq Jaffe’s2d stadium builder to come up with the factors

Which, in turn, just used gambo's old spreadsheet. So it's like a copy of a copy. Personally I'd use OOTP's calculations, that's what I've used for the 3d parks I've made.

darkcloud4579 · 03-23-2022, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelican

So, I’m confused. If, or example, I set new dimensions for a renovated Baker Bowl in 1938 (on the ballpark editor screen), what do I need to do to make sure the game uses those new dimensions to determine home runs and so forth? I used the autocalc and the revised factors seemed consistent with moving the RF fence back thirty feet. Is that illusory? In game play, are those cheap home runs going to be caught as fly balls? My goal was to put the Phillies in a somewhat more neutral environment, though not as severe a change as when they moved to Shibe Park, on July 4, 1938 IRL. Is there something more (hopefully, not involving coding) that I need to do? At this point, I’m not worrying about the physical appearance of the park. I realize that would involve learning design.

Using the auto calc will not be illusory, it'll codify those codified factors and if your preference is a more neutral environment then keeping the autocalc is good. Nothing else you need to do. It's either import the .prk and keep the factors the creator implemented or use the game's autocalc to neutralize it more based on location, wind and dimensions the game uses to generate its own.

silvam14 · 03-23-2022, 05:26 PM

If I’m not mistaken, I believe for the historic parks, the factors are supposed to be taken from the era_ballparks file regardless of what is in the buckets In the park editor. I think someone told me this is not working though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

darkcloud4579 · 03-23-2022, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvam14

If I’m not mistaken, I believe for the historic parks, the factors are supposed to be taken from the era_ballparks file regardless of what is in the buckets In the park editor. I think someone told me this is not working though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's not.

macprivateer · 03-28-2022, 07:48 PM

A little follow up question...

And the "codifying" park factors that the game engine uses when using a park's files (so when NOT using the era_ballparks file) are the factors just in the prk file is that correct?

What I mean is...it is immaterial what the 3D model has (or would have) for the park factors based on the dimensions from that 3D model. It it just the data within the prk file that dictates the park factors.

Wow, I hope that makes sense.

08-22-2021, 01:01 PM	#1
seasideda Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: new hampshire Posts: 131	Question on park factors "auto Calculate" using stadium mods I recently downloaded Silvams historical stadiums (playing teams and using stadiums from the 30's and 40's) If I use the park factors auto calculate the ball park factors change. (I guess based on wall height, wind patterns and altitude) Should I auto calculate the stadiums in my league when using the mods or just leave them as they are? Do the mods factor in all of the mentioned above? Just curious as to how they come up with the park factors? Example Fenway Park 1940-1969" Silvam ballpark Avg. 1.022 doubles 1.157 triples .755 hrs .902 Auto Calculate (changes to) Avg. 1.021 doubles 1.138 triples 1.104 hrs. .800 With mods playing at Fenway, with no auto calculate, I guess I would see more hr's but less triples vs auto calculate? Thank you and enjoying the game so much more with the enhanced ballparks!!

09-12-2021, 03:24 PM	#3
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	AutoCalc in OOTP has nothing to do with park factors. Its sole use is to modify league stat output to match a desired result (such as a past season). __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

03-12-2022, 09:20 PM	#7
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 3,136	So, I’m confused. If, or example, I set new dimensions for a renovated Baker Bowl in 1938 (on the ballpark editor screen), what do I need to do to make sure the game uses those new dimensions to determine home runs and so forth? I used the autocalc and the revised factors seemed consistent with moving the RF fence back thirty feet. Is that illusory? In game play, are those cheap home runs going to be caught as fly balls? My goal was to put the Phillies in a somewhat more neutral environment, though not as severe a change as when they moved to Shibe Park, on July 4, 1938 IRL. Is there something more (hopefully, not involving coding) that I need to do? At this point, I’m not worrying about the physical appearance of the park. I realize that would involve learning design. Last edited by Pelican; 03-12-2022 at 09:21 PM.

03-23-2022, 05:26 PM	#10
silvam14 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dedham, MA Posts: 10,055	If I’m not mistaken, I believe for the historic parks, the factors are supposed to be taken from the era_ballparks file regardless of what is in the buckets In the park editor. I think someone told me this is not working though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Senior "Nancy Boy" of the OOTP Boards _______________________________________________

09-12-2021, 01:21 PM	#2
macprivateer Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 33	I'm not an expert but (I believe) the issue you're seeing is that there are different formulas to determine the actual ballpark factors. I think either the formula has changed over time for ootp or the actual formula was not fully defined to the modders community (again, just guessing here). The point being there's potentially a disconnect in terms of the actual calculations. Regardless of why, you also questioned what should you do when you can get two park factors for the same stadium (e.g., Silvam's 1940 Fenway vs recalc'd OOTP's "Silvam's 1940 Fenway"). I have even had two stadiums showing like completely opposite "types" of parks doing this. As in the modder's park factors show the ballpark to be a pitcher's park while the recalc from ootp makes it a hitter's park. Yep, can get a bit confusing. I don't believe there really is a "right answer" to this quandary. I mean, it really only matters to you what you want the ballpark to be. If you want Fenway to be a place of more triples or less triples (and those numbers you quoted above although fairly different, would probably not have such a significant impact on your gameplay, so you could conceivably pick either and not really notice the difference). In terms of the levers of the recalc, yes if you play with wall heights or the wind or whatever and do a recalc you'll get a new set of park factors. From which we can deduce the park factor formula within the game is not the same one modders use, since without changing any parameters you can see often vast differences in the park factors between the two. To me it comes down to materiality. There are so many factors that go into the play and the statistical output from ootp, and park factors are so very complex IMO, it just depends on the differences you are seeing vs. your desires. And finally, yes, the impact would be more HRs and less Triples IF you went with Silvam's numbers. Although those HR differences are pretty small, but yes the park factors you use will impact the statistical output of the game.

03-28-2022, 07:48 PM	#12
macprivateer Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 33	A little follow up question... And the "codifying" park factors that the game engine uses when using a park's files (so when NOT using the era_ballparks file) are the factors just in the prk file is that correct? What I mean is...it is immaterial what the 3D model has (or would have) for the park factors based on the dimensions from that 3D model. It it just the data within the prk file that dictates the park factors. Wow, I hope that makes sense.