Weird award voting result

Dukie98 · 09-12-2021, 10:28 PM

In my random debut league, Bill Gullickson has basically been reborn as Jacob deGrom. As a 19-year-old rookie, Gullickson has 65/70/65 ratings (on the 20-80 scale), and he put up a season for the ages, shattering the single-season ERA record, leading the league in WHIP, and yielding a ridiculous 2 homers in 177 innings in a contemporary offensive context. Despite leading all players in my 48-team league in WAR, he finished second in the Cy Young voting to a teammate with a worse won-lost record and an ERA a run higher, and third in the Rookie of the Year voting. Neither vote was close.

Here's how he compares to the award winners:

Cy Young winner Francisco Liriano (30 of 48 first-place votes): 11-5, 2.05 ERA, 1.10 WHIP, 180 IP, 207 K, 67 BB, 217 ERA+, 6.6 WAR
Gullickson (16 of 48 first-place votes): 15-5, 1.07 ERA, 0.83 WHIP, 177 IP, 188 K, 39 BB, 416 ERA+, 10.3 WAR

Rookie of the Year Tim Salmon (43 of 48 first place votes): .324/ .434/ .584, 33 homers, 119 RBIs, 97 runs, 165 OPS+, 7.9 WAR
Second place - Wally Joyner: .309/ .390/ .596, 38 HR, 94 RBI, 101 runs, 156 OPS+, 5.5 WAR
Third place- Gullickson (5 of 48 first place votes).

Gullickson's innings count is somewhat low because he missed 5 starts with an injury- but durability can't explain the voting results because Liriano only pitched three more innings. Neither Salmon nor Joyner were iron men either- Salmon started 140 games, and Joyner 128.

Overall, I have no complaints with the award voting decision-making process- I don't always agree with the outcome, but they are almost always reasonable. But here, given the substantial WAR differential, coupled with the league-leading ERA/ WHIP numbers, I don't see how the awards could go to anyone other than Gullickson- let alone by a sizable margin. Has anyone else seen similarly egregious voting results?

OrangeP47 · 09-13-2021, 04:38 PM

I had a pitcher win the triple crown at age 22 and fail to win a single award through his age 25 season (where we're at currently). He didn't win the triple crown age 23, 24, or 25, because obviously repeats would be insanely hard, but he's still a super star. The AI voters seem to specifically hate him in particular, because overall in my save the awards have been fairly on point. Like the voting wasn't even close, and never is. He was rookie eligible that first season.

Highlander · 09-13-2021, 06:18 PM

I post this not to disagree that your award voting was strange and unreasonable, but to show that it happens in real life as well-

In 1925, Roger Peckinpaugh was voted the AL MVP with 70% of the shares of votes. He hit .294/.367/.379 with 4 HR, 67 R, 64 RBI and 13 SB with 2.7 WAR

In 4th place in the MVP voting was Harry Heilmann, who hit .393/.457/.569 with 13 HR, 97 R, 134 RBI, 6 SB and a league leading 7.0 WAR.

Washington did finish 1st and Detroit finished 4th that season, so that was probably the main reason.

Maybe more comparable to your situation was the 1934 AL MVP voting. The Tigers finished in 1st place and Mickey Cochrane was voted league MVP with these numbers- .320/.428/.412, 2 HR, 74 R, 75 RBI, 4.5 WAR

His teammate Charlie Gehringer finished 2nd with these numbers- .356/.450/.517, 11 HR, 135 R, 127 RBI, 8.8 WAR

Meanwhile, Lou Gehrig, for the 2nd place Yankees, finished in 5th place with these numbers- .363/.465/.706, 49 HR, 128 R, 166 RBI, 10.1 WAR

BirdWatcher · 09-13-2021, 06:34 PM

I have often wondered whether end of season awards, particularly the most prestigious of them (MVP, Pitcher of the Year/Cy Young), also somewhat factor in things like reputation/name recognition. I'm sure there are more experienced OOTP gamers than me who know (or, at least, think they know) the answer to this question, but it has always seemed to me that in addition to the complex statistical variables that go into these awards, there might also be some reputational variables that can swing things slightly one way or another. Now, having said that, anecdotally I have seen situations in my fictional save that both seem to confirm this and at other times that seem to contradict the idea. So, I remain unsure. (I'll admit I'm the type who loves some uncertainty.)

I have observed, again anecdotally, that it seems to be very hard for a pitcher to win the Rookie of the Year award, even when they seem to be quite deserving. I just double-checked and in my fictional save/league in the 17 seasons that have been completed thus far, not once has a pitcher won this award in either league.

OrangeP47 · 09-13-2021, 06:45 PM

I just want to clarify, because I meant to in my original addition but forgot, that I actually absolutely love that this happened. It creates great drama, and we can all claim we're in it for sport, but what is sport if not drama.

I'll also agree with BirdWatcher here. The guy I spoke of was on Atlanta, and Atlanta has had a pretty bad slump in for the past 10 or so years in my save, to the point I wonder if that has had something to do with the votes.

OrangeP47 · 09-13-2021, 09:36 PM

Sorry to spam this thread, but I had the game open earlier and checked in on the guy I mentioned. I misremembered, his rookie season, the season with the triple crown, was his age 24 season.... but he also pitched the first perfect game in 15 years that season, so it was even more of a snub!

09-12-2021, 10:28 PM	#1
Dukie98 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 902	Weird award voting result In my random debut league, Bill Gullickson has basically been reborn as Jacob deGrom. As a 19-year-old rookie, Gullickson has 65/70/65 ratings (on the 20-80 scale), and he put up a season for the ages, shattering the single-season ERA record, leading the league in WHIP, and yielding a ridiculous 2 homers in 177 innings in a contemporary offensive context. Despite leading all players in my 48-team league in WAR, he finished second in the Cy Young voting to a teammate with a worse won-lost record and an ERA a run higher, and third in the Rookie of the Year voting. Neither vote was close. Here's how he compares to the award winners: Cy Young winner Francisco Liriano (30 of 48 first-place votes): 11-5, 2.05 ERA, 1.10 WHIP, 180 IP, 207 K, 67 BB, 217 ERA+, 6.6 WAR Gullickson (16 of 48 first-place votes): 15-5, 1.07 ERA, 0.83 WHIP, 177 IP, 188 K, 39 BB, 416 ERA+, 10.3 WAR Rookie of the Year Tim Salmon (43 of 48 first place votes): .324/ .434/ .584, 33 homers, 119 RBIs, 97 runs, 165 OPS+, 7.9 WAR Second place - Wally Joyner: .309/ .390/ .596, 38 HR, 94 RBI, 101 runs, 156 OPS+, 5.5 WAR Third place- Gullickson (5 of 48 first place votes). Gullickson's innings count is somewhat low because he missed 5 starts with an injury- but durability can't explain the voting results because Liriano only pitched three more innings. Neither Salmon nor Joyner were iron men either- Salmon started 140 games, and Joyner 128. Overall, I have no complaints with the award voting decision-making process- I don't always agree with the outcome, but they are almost always reasonable. But here, given the substantial WAR differential, coupled with the league-leading ERA/ WHIP numbers, I don't see how the awards could go to anyone other than Gullickson- let alone by a sizable margin. Has anyone else seen similarly egregious voting results?

09-13-2021, 04:38 PM	#2
OrangeP47 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 805	I had a pitcher win the triple crown at age 22 and fail to win a single award through his age 25 season (where we're at currently). He didn't win the triple crown age 23, 24, or 25, because obviously repeats would be insanely hard, but he's still a super star. The AI voters seem to specifically hate him in particular, because overall in my save the awards have been fairly on point. Like the voting wasn't even close, and never is. He was rookie eligible that first season. Last edited by OrangeP47; 09-13-2021 at 04:41 PM.

09-13-2021, 06:18 PM	#3
Highlander All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,088	I post this not to disagree that your award voting was strange and unreasonable, but to show that it happens in real life as well- In 1925, Roger Peckinpaugh was voted the AL MVP with 70% of the shares of votes. He hit .294/.367/.379 with 4 HR, 67 R, 64 RBI and 13 SB with 2.7 WAR In 4th place in the MVP voting was Harry Heilmann, who hit .393/.457/.569 with 13 HR, 97 R, 134 RBI, 6 SB and a league leading 7.0 WAR. Washington did finish 1st and Detroit finished 4th that season, so that was probably the main reason. Maybe more comparable to your situation was the 1934 AL MVP voting. The Tigers finished in 1st place and Mickey Cochrane was voted league MVP with these numbers- .320/.428/.412, 2 HR, 74 R, 75 RBI, 4.5 WAR His teammate Charlie Gehringer finished 2nd with these numbers- .356/.450/.517, 11 HR, 135 R, 127 RBI, 8.8 WAR Meanwhile, Lou Gehrig, for the 2nd place Yankees, finished in 5th place with these numbers- .363/.465/.706, 49 HR, 128 R, 166 RBI, 10.1 WAR __________________ "The baseball mania has run its course. It has no future as a professional endeavor." — Cincinnati Gazette editorial, 1879

09-13-2021, 06:34 PM	#4
BirdWatcher Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 4,263	I have often wondered whether end of season awards, particularly the most prestigious of them (MVP, Pitcher of the Year/Cy Young), also somewhat factor in things like reputation/name recognition. I'm sure there are more experienced OOTP gamers than me who know (or, at least, think they know) the answer to this question, but it has always seemed to me that in addition to the complex statistical variables that go into these awards, there might also be some reputational variables that can swing things slightly one way or another. Now, having said that, anecdotally I have seen situations in my fictional save that both seem to confirm this and at other times that seem to contradict the idea. So, I remain unsure. (I'll admit I'm the type who loves some uncertainty.) I have observed, again anecdotally, that it seems to be very hard for a pitcher to win the Rookie of the Year award, even when they seem to be quite deserving. I just double-checked and in my fictional save/league in the 17 seasons that have been completed thus far, not once has a pitcher won this award in either league. __________________ The Denver Brewers of the W.P. Kinsella League-- The fun starts here(1965-1971: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=289570 And continues here (1972-1976): https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=300500 On we go (1977- 1979): https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=314601 For ongoing and more random updates on the WPK:https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=325147, https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=330717

09-13-2021, 06:45 PM	#5
OrangeP47 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 805	I just want to clarify, because I meant to in my original addition but forgot, that I actually absolutely love that this happened. It creates great drama, and we can all claim we're in it for sport, but what is sport if not drama. I'll also agree with BirdWatcher here. The guy I spoke of was on Atlanta, and Atlanta has had a pretty bad slump in for the past 10 or so years in my save, to the point I wonder if that has had something to do with the votes.

09-13-2021, 09:36 PM	#6
OrangeP47 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 805	Sorry to spam this thread, but I had the game open earlier and checked in on the guy I mentioned. I misremembered, his rookie season, the season with the triple crown, was his age 24 season.... but he also pitched the first perfect game in 15 years that season, so it was even more of a snub!