Game_defense_influence

[fredbeene]

Has anyone used and of insights they would like to share on this ENGINE setting?
GAME_DEFENSE_INFLUENCE
Sets how much the players' defensive ratings affect the outcome of the plays. Higher = defensive ratings have greater influence
http://manuals.ootpdevelopments.com/...22&page=engine


This sounds intriguing. To me, defense should effect every play.
I don't ever recall seeing a post on this.

[Sweed]

Defense does effect every play. The only thing you would be changing is the
100 default. They've run thousands of tests to set default. I wouldn't touch this with a 10 ft. pole.

[OutS|der]

Does the game even track all those stats to even check how much it changed? IE advancing after tagging

[swoboda]

I find defense up the middle (SS, 2B, CF) definitely has an impact on offense/scoring. I see it when I play and I see it in the stats.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

Has anyone used and of insights they would like to share on this ENGINE setting?
GAME_DEFENSE_INFLUENCE
Sets how much the players' defensive ratings affect the outcome of the plays. Higher = defensive ratings have greater influence
http://manuals.ootpdevelopments.com/...22&page=engine


This sounds intriguing. To me, defense should effect every play.
I don't ever recall seeing a post on this.

It doesn't say defense doesn't affect every play.

To justify changing this you'd have to show that with the current setting the game isn't producing appropriate outcomes, and that with a change in defense weight it would.

[fredbeene]

I look at it like this:
Strat-o-matic would have
Groundout 6. Just a routine play to SS. No checking charts.
then they have
Groundout 6X. NOW you check the the shortstop ratings and check the charts.

That how I interpret this SETTING. The setting would be equivilent to every play to have an X after it....ie everything gets checked.

So in OOTPB the 100 setting not everything is checked. Just like when a LONG fly ball doesn't not always result in you checking the arm of the fielder and the speed of the runner.
But setting to 200?? everything behind the scenes is checked.

[Brad K]

This isn't Strat O Matic

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by Brad K

This isn't Strat O Matic

As someone who spent a great deal of his life playing Strat-O-Matic (a wonderful game, for what it is), this is pretty much exactly the response that I had to this.

[ezpkns34]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

I look at it like this:
Strat-o-matic would have
Groundout 6. Just a routine play to SS. No checking charts.
then they have
Groundout 6X. NOW you check the the shortstop ratings and check the charts.

That how I interpret this SETTING. The setting would be equivilent to every play to have an X after it....ie everything gets checked.

So in OOTPB the 100 setting not everything is checked. Just like when a LONG fly ball doesn't not always result in you checking the arm of the fielder and the speed of the runner.
But setting to 200?? everything behind the scenes is checked.

Set it to 200 and let us know how it goes then

[Eugene Church]

WARNING:
DO NOT USE DEFENSE INFLUENCE IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

Keep in mind that this is a GLOBAL setting and will affect all of your leagues... I now have the league stats in my Islandian Pro Alliance where I want them, but in another league they are off because of the era and style of play differs... my second league is a semi-pro type league with more errors, more stolen bases, passed balls and fewer double plays the professional baseball.
My workaround is to have Defense Influence settings for each league... when I play League 1 I use settings appropriate for the league... when I play League 2, I change the settings to fit that league... it's a pain, but it works.

Sorry, I use the Defense Influence in config engine file anyway, not knowing what I was doing... but I did learn a bit and could adjust my league stats... I only play fictional leagues and did not want default settings.

I have used Defense Influence for about the last 9 versions of the game... I did it to lower the league fielding average and to adjust a few other stats... my default settings always used modern-day baseball league-fielding averages... .980 FA... that was way too high for my league... I wanted league fielding average to be .960 FA to .970 FA.

Using trial-and-error I managed to lower my Islandian Pro Alliance league-fielding average to .965 FA.

I also adjusted frequency of double plays, passed balls and stolen bases... also raised the success rate of stolen bases.

I have posted several threads about this, but got no response... no one seems to know anything about the Defense Influence in the config engine file.

I'll try to locate those threads.

[Matt Arnold]

Almost every play is checked right now still. The only balls in play where we don't run even a cursory defense check are no-doubters (ie. hard line drive double off the wall, bloop ball between IF/OF, etc...).

That being said, each play individually tends to only have a small chance of changing. This isn't rec league softball where even a routine grounder to SS will often skip through the fielder for a hit. Increasing (or decreasing) the engine value there will basically make defense more valuable. At the limits, setting it to 0 would effectively cause all players to act the same on the field. If you set it higher, than a better defensive player will basically turn more hits to outs, and a worse player will turn more outs to hits. So it's not about whether we roll the check on a player more often, it's more about how likely the check is to change things.

I would definitely HIGHLY caution anyone who wants to change that, since it could definitely severely impact your game. Changing it by 10 or 20% probably wouldn't break things, but especially the further off from 100 it is, the more it could have much wider consequences.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Almost every play is checked right now still. The only balls in play where we don't run even a cursory defense check are no-doubters (ie. hard line drive double off the wall, bloop ball between IF/OF, etc...).

That being said, each play individually tends to only have a small chance of changing. This isn't rec league softball where even a routine grounder to SS will often skip through the fielder for a hit. Increasing (or decreasing) the engine value there will basically make defense more valuable. At the limits, setting it to 0 would effectively cause all players to act the same on the field. If you set it higher, than a better defensive player will basically turn more hits to outs, and a worse player will turn more outs to hits. So it's not about whether we roll the check on a player more often, it's more about how likely the check is to change things.

I would definitely HIGHLY caution anyone who wants to change that, since it could definitely severely impact your game. Changing it by 10 or 20% probably wouldn't break things, but especially the further off from 100 it is, the more it could have much wider consequences.

Thanks, Matt... this is very helpful to me... I think I am using the Defense Influence in a correct way... only make adjustments using 10% to 20% at most.

[Eugene Church]

I found a recent thread about this subject.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=330556

[Eugene Church]

Deleted... double post.

[BBGiovanni]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

This isn't rec league softball where even a routine grounder to SS will often skip through the fielder for a hit.

Spoken like someone who's never watched a Mets game!

I counsel caution on this kind of thing too, maybe bump it a point one way or the other and see, if you play out your games. If you are like these guys that sim decades I'd be more careful yet.

[Brad K]

It seems to me Strato eliminated fielding considerations from some calculations because its random number generator couldn't produce very small probabilities. I'm sure OOTP's can but from the standpoint of reducing computation requirements would have no problem if some plays were eliminated from consideration of fielding factors. The probability of fielding influence on the others could be raised to compensate. The end results would be the same.

The idea presented previously that fielding should be considered for ALL plays would include home runs. Well, I suppose, if we're going to have Superheroes like the elastic Mister Fantastic playing the outfield. "Wow, fans. Mister Fantastic just stole a home run by reaching over the fence into the third row to snag that fly. And he didn't even jump."

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by Brad K

It seems to me Strato eliminated fielding considerations from some calculations because its random number generator couldn't produce very small probabilities. I'm sure OOTP's can but from the standpoint of reducing computation requirements would have no problem if some plays were eliminated from consideration of fielding factors. The probability of fielding influence on the others could be raised to compensate. The end results would be the same.

The idea presented previously that fielding should be considered for ALL plays would include home runs. Well, I suppose, if we're going to have Superheroes like the elastic Mister Fantastic playing the outfield. "Wow, fans. Mister Fantastic just stole a home run by reaching over the fence into the third row to snag that fly. And he didn't even jump."

Sure all plays.....so it out of the park....ok def is still checked, but nothing can be done....however, just over the fence happens frequently and the defense should be checked....was the defense back? great range? the probability increase defender snares it.
Foul balls, same thing
Strikeout..did catcher drop it?
Even sure HITS, the defense seems like it should be checked because the defense has to get to the ball and fielders in relay positions.

It seems like an interesting setting and reads like the defaults setting does not have DEF checked on every play.

Sets how much the players' defensive ratings affect the outcome of the plays. Higher = defensive ratings have greater influence

Yup i know it is not stratomatic..just making a comparison of how i thought maybe the game was set........make it higher then every play has fielding chart checked.

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Almost every play is checked right now still. The only balls in play where we don't run even a cursory defense check are no-doubters (ie. hard line drive double off the wall, bloop ball between IF/OF, etc...).

That being said, each play individually tends to only have a small chance of changing. This isn't rec league softball where even a routine grounder to SS will often skip through the fielder for a hit. Increasing (or decreasing) the engine value there will basically make defense more valuable. At the limits, setting it to 0 would effectively cause all players to act the same on the field. If you set it higher, than a better defensive player will basically turn more hits to outs, and a worse player will turn more outs to hits. So it's not about whether we roll the check on a player more often, it's more about how likely the check is to change things.

I would definitely HIGHLY caution anyone who wants to change that, since it could definitely severely impact your game. Changing it by 10 or 20% probably wouldn't break things, but especially the further off from 100 it is, the more it could have much wider consequences.

That being said, each play individually tends to only have a small chance of changing.>>
Thanks matt...
Can you elaborate on that.
Are you saying 100 GB to SS area of field, only a small percentage are actually effected by the fielder settings??
(1-100 scale)
A 100 shortstop will convert 99 of the plays to outs whereas a 10 SS will convert say 95%?

So regardless of positioning, where it is hit, how hard it is hit and def error, range, arm, Fatigue and weather conditions....it is all pretty much predetermined?

Sorry if i am reading to much into this

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

That being said, each play individually tends to only have a small chance of changing.>>

Thanks matt...

Can you elaborate on that.

Are you saying 100 GB to SS area of field, only a small percentage are actually effected by the fielder settings??

(1-100 scale)

A 100 shortstop will convert 99 of the plays to outs whereas a 10 SS will convert say 95%?



So regardless of positioning, where it is hit, how hard it is hit and def error, range, arm, Fatigue and weather conditions....it is all pretty much predetermined?



Sorry if i am reading to much into this

No, it's more like if the game has a ground out to SS at a specific speed/location/etc... a bad SS might have like a 5% chance of "turning" it into a hit due to D. Every ball will have a different value, and obviously that % varies depending on the SS rating.

[pstrickert]

Matt, can a bad SS ever make a great defensive play (albeit rarely)? And can a great SS ever bungle an easy play? I mean, it does happen IRL, right?