Please help me understand player development better

Plutoro · 04-27-2003, 02:14 PM

Hi, I really dont understand the rate at which players develop. I understand that they develop mostly during ST, but during the regular season my players usually lose more talent. Its really frustrating after you draft a 20 year old stud SP..top prospect in the league..just to watch is duration drop from A to C and his talents in avoiding HR's and BB's down.

I dont understand also why a guy can not develop at all during the regular season, but go from A to AAA.

And why do guys that are like 25, in the majors, starting for a year or two straight get worse fielding there position. I can sorta understand batting but its not like they forget fielding at 25 after 2 full big league years..and they arn't getting slower.

Also what roll do the coach's actually play?

And finally what determines how good a pitcher actually is at not giving up runs, ERA or HITS, HR"s, BB ect... (and if its the combo what does the ERA actually do?)

I know its alot of questions sorry.

Paul31 · 04-27-2003, 02:41 PM

Thats about how it is in real life though. theres a lot of top draft picks that never amount to crap. Many major league players get sloppy at fielding after a couple of years, like Frank Thomas, Jose Conseco, Rey Ordonez and a bunch of others.

I don't think coaches do much of anything, really.

And although talent doesn't change, actual abilities change as the players get more experience. So thats why a player goes from A to AAA in 1 year.

With pitchers, I look for good abilities (at least 5 + on my first year with a team, 6+ after that) in walks and hits allowed. HRs don't bug me unless they are really bad at that, but I've had successful pitchers with a 1 or 2 in homerun ratings. I don't give a crap about velocity or strikeouts, cause I always field excellent defensive teams.

ERA is very important ability too, its like experience and intelligence. A guy with less than a 5 ERA gets lit up, but I think ERA goes up quickly with major league experience. Rookie pitchers always suck, but u need to go through it cause its the only way to make them better.

beorn · 04-27-2003, 02:41 PM

Most of spring training's effects are subtle. I would say it is not true that most of a player's progress comes then.

By and large, players develop by playing (as opposed to sitting on the bench) and this playing needs to be at the proper level. If a guy is ready for AA, you are asking for trouble if he is placed at A, AAA, or the majors.

"Development" really refers to two things: talent and skills. Talent is the guy's potential in an area, and the rises and falls are fairly random... although old age will cause drops, misplacement (see above) will cause drops, and minor league managers may affect the odds somewhat. Changes in fielding rating also fit into this category -- fairly random bumps up and down, and I would have to say this is realistic. Players don't "forget" but they lose a step, never recover totally from some nagging problem, learn better positioning, etc.

Skill is what develops by playing. You cannot see this very clearly because two pitchers each with a 5 in avoiding HRs may not be equal at all... There's really quite a range of skill within a number, and you cannot see the player inching up.

ERA is meant to be the total rating of how well the pitcher does at preventing runs. You can see this by taking the player editor and making adjustment. Unlike other ratings, this cannot be input directly, but rather it is a function of the other ratings... Personally, I would pay more attention to the other ratings. Give me a guy who avoids BBs and HRs, and I predict he will perform well.

As to coaches, if you get a definitive answer, I want to hear it.

JAttractive · 04-27-2003, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Plutoro
Hi, I really dont understand the rate at which players develop. I understand that they develop mostly during ST, but during the regular season my players usually lose more talent. Its really frustrating after you draft a 20 year old stud SP..top prospect in the league..just to watch is duration drop from A to C and his talents in avoiding HR's and BB's down.

I dont understand also why a guy can not develop at all during the regular season, but go from A to AAA.

And why do guys that are like 25, in the majors, starting for a year or two straight get worse fielding there position. I can sorta understand batting but its not like they forget fielding at 25 after 2 full big league years..and they arn't getting slower.

Also what roll do the coach's actually play?

And finally what determines how good a pitcher actually is at not giving up runs, ERA or HITS, HR"s, BB ect... (and if its the combo what does the ERA actually do?)

I know its alot of questions sorry.

1. Spring Training is not where they will develop most. I know you will see text reports saying they go up but it is only a small amount. What you have to understand is that we aren't seeing the decimal(s) attached to each number even with the editor on. So a guy may have a 2 for hits in AA all season long and look like he didn't change when in fact he may have moved up from 2.0 to 2.9 (or something like that).

2. The talent changes during the season are fairly random and reflect real life. We can name countless prospects who looked like they were going to be superstars never get out of the minors. At the same time late round draft picks have come out of nowhere to become top players... these "random" (that is only partially true) talent fluctuations are meant to reflect that. So yes it is frustrating when a top guy flops for you but thats still realistic.

3. Guys ARE developing during the season. In fact sometimes incredibly fast going up multiple rating points in multiple talents. I am not sure why you aren't seeing this. Do you have the traditional scouting reports on or is it talent-only? If a guy is ready to move up a level I can guarantee he has improved though as I said it may be in the hidden decimal places.... but still a guy moving from A to AAA should have his ratings go up noticeably so in whole digits.

4. Other people have explained the fielding changes correctly.

5. Coaches seem to affect the speed of development and *possibly* the change that a talent change is in your favour (not entirely sure on this). So each week when a rating/talent change check is made a good coach gives a higher probability they will improve.

6. Ratings and Era work together to determine how good a pitcher is. I wrote a post on this once that explains it.. I will find it and add the link in a reply.

JAttractive · 04-27-2003, 03:16 PM

Ok here is the thread I tried to explain pitcher's and how to evaluate them based on their ratings.... Hope that helps. Just scroll down a few replies to find my posts.

http://www.400softwarestudios.com/bo...her+era+rating

HolyCow98 · 04-27-2003, 03:22 PM

I see alot more of the developing during the regular season when the players are actually playing.....

Some teams seem like on a given year...will have alot more players go down in talent than improve....but to gauge how the game does it..you really need to look at each team...

Plutoro · 04-27-2003, 07:34 PM

I look at the Player Development report (is there another way) and I can go an entire season without seeing a players talent going up..yet when I look at the minors report they jump a level. Does it just not show all the talent ratings (and im talking about the # values like 6 )

Rockpile · 04-27-2003, 07:49 PM

WHAT? You dont think coaches do anything? WOW...coaches has a HUGE impact on development and performance.

Run a couple of test sims with identical files, but change the coaches to Brilliant on one and Average on the other for your test team. You'll see...

CareyScurry · 04-27-2003, 10:32 PM

Regarding defense, there have been studies (real life MLB) suggesting that defensive range peaks around age 24 (FA, more experience driven, at a later point).

JAttractive · 04-27-2003, 11:03 PM

Ok don't use the player development report for that. The player dev. report is for talent CHANGES both up and down. This is their "potential" and is not the same as their ratings which is their current skill in that particular talent.

So just because a guy is a brilliant talent hitter does not necessarily mean he is a brilliant hitter yet. All that means is he has the potential to one day be one.

What you need to watch are the individual player pages (double click a player.. it should show their talent AND their current rating. It is the numerical rating that you need to watch here). You can also see these as charts by checking out the major and minor league rosters of your team and sorting using the drop down menu. Now you should still follow the player dev. report closely but you are confusing talent and ratings. Both are important just that one is potential (talent) and one is their current skill (rating).

Plutoro · 04-27-2003, 11:06 PM

Ah,

Thank you Jattractive that is what was confusing me

. I thought that was the numercial change. I just wish there was a way to view the numerical change on 1 page.

JAttractive · 04-28-2003, 01:21 AM

Well the ratings fluctuate constantly so the page would be a complete mess to try and follow. Ratings will go up and down both from development, lack of playing, injuries, age, random fluctuations etc. It would literally dwarf the player development page. Talent changes are pretty rare so making a page for that works but not so for ratings.

However since most changes (both ratings and talent) seem to occur each week simmed you can just check the important guys once a week.

Plutoro · 04-28-2003, 03:37 PM

Hey, I dont want to clutter the board more with my newb questions but I do have 1 more.

What role does team chemistry play, and how can I improve it?

04-27-2003, 02:14 PM	#1
Plutoro Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 276	Please help me understand player development better Hi, I really dont understand the rate at which players develop. I understand that they develop mostly during ST, but during the regular season my players usually lose more talent. Its really frustrating after you draft a 20 year old stud SP..top prospect in the league..just to watch is duration drop from A to C and his talents in avoiding HR's and BB's down. I dont understand also why a guy can not develop at all during the regular season, but go from A to AAA. And why do guys that are like 25, in the majors, starting for a year or two straight get worse fielding there position. I can sorta understand batting but its not like they forget fielding at 25 after 2 full big league years..and they arn't getting slower. Also what roll do the coach's actually play? And finally what determines how good a pitcher actually is at not giving up runs, ERA or HITS, HR"s, BB ect... (and if its the combo what does the ERA actually do?) I know its alot of questions sorry.

04-27-2003, 02:41 PM	#3
beorn All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: near Rochester, NY Posts: 1,269	Most of spring training's effects are subtle. I would say it is not true that most of a player's progress comes then. By and large, players develop by playing (as opposed to sitting on the bench) and this playing needs to be at the proper level. If a guy is ready for AA, you are asking for trouble if he is placed at A, AAA, or the majors. "Development" really refers to two things: talent and skills. Talent is the guy's potential in an area, and the rises and falls are fairly random... although old age will cause drops, misplacement (see above) will cause drops, and minor league managers may affect the odds somewhat. Changes in fielding rating also fit into this category -- fairly random bumps up and down, and I would have to say this is realistic. Players don't "forget" but they lose a step, never recover totally from some nagging problem, learn better positioning, etc. Skill is what develops by playing. You cannot see this very clearly because two pitchers each with a 5 in avoiding HRs may not be equal at all... There's really quite a range of skill within a number, and you cannot see the player inching up. ERA is meant to be the total rating of how well the pitcher does at preventing runs. You can see this by taking the player editor and making adjustment. Unlike other ratings, this cannot be input directly, but rather it is a function of the other ratings... Personally, I would pay more attention to the other ratings. Give me a guy who avoids BBs and HRs, and I predict he will perform well. As to coaches, if you get a definitive answer, I want to hear it. __________________ Commish of Dog Days Baseball Commish Pennant Chase Baseball League (PCBL) Commish and Blue Jays GM Extra Innings Baseball Last edited by beorn; 04-27-2003 at 02:44 PM.

04-27-2003, 03:22 PM	#6
HolyCow98 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Douglasville, GA Posts: 2,735	I see alot more of the developing during the regular season when the players are actually playing..... Some teams seem like on a given year...will have alot more players go down in talent than improve....but to gauge how the game does it..you really need to look at each team... __________________ NPBL Enjoying its 60th season Georgia GM

04-27-2003, 07:34 PM	#7
Plutoro Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 276	I look at the Player Development report (is there another way) and I can go an entire season without seeing a players talent going up..yet when I look at the minors report they jump a level. Does it just not show all the talent ratings (and im talking about the # values like 6 ) __________________ SMLB-San Diego Padres: Pre-season 2003, currently rebuilding (year 1 of 5). 15-22 now, Klesko and Burroughs are hot each hitting .325 plus, Bartosh and Keisler both making strong cases for RoY in the early season.

04-27-2003, 02:41 PM	#2
Paul31 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 56	Thats about how it is in real life though. theres a lot of top draft picks that never amount to crap. Many major league players get sloppy at fielding after a couple of years, like Frank Thomas, Jose Conseco, Rey Ordonez and a bunch of others. I don't think coaches do much of anything, really. And although talent doesn't change, actual abilities change as the players get more experience. So thats why a player goes from A to AAA in 1 year. With pitchers, I look for good abilities (at least 5 + on my first year with a team, 6+ after that) in walks and hits allowed. HRs don't bug me unless they are really bad at that, but I've had successful pitchers with a 1 or 2 in homerun ratings. I don't give a crap about velocity or strikeouts, cause I always field excellent defensive teams. ERA is very important ability too, its like experience and intelligence. A guy with less than a 5 ERA gets lit up, but I think ERA goes up quickly with major league experience. Rookie pitchers always suck, but u need to go through it cause its the only way to make them better.

04-27-2003, 03:16 PM	#5
JAttractive All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Posts: 1,135	Ok here is the thread I tried to explain pitcher's and how to evaluate them based on their ratings.... Hope that helps. Just scroll down a few replies to find my posts. http://www.400softwarestudios.com/bo...her+era+rating

04-27-2003, 07:49 PM	#8
Rockpile All Star Reserve Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 620	WHAT? You dont think coaches do anything? WOW...coaches has a HUGE impact on development and performance. Run a couple of test sims with identical files, but change the coaches to Brilliant on one and Average on the other for your test team. You'll see...

04-27-2003, 10:32 PM	#9
CareyScurry Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NC Posts: 109	Regarding defense, there have been studies (real life MLB) suggesting that defensive range peaks around age 24 (FA, more experience driven, at a later point).

04-27-2003, 11:03 PM	#10
JAttractive All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Posts: 1,135	Ok don't use the player development report for that. The player dev. report is for talent CHANGES both up and down. This is their "potential" and is not the same as their ratings which is their current skill in that particular talent. So just because a guy is a brilliant talent hitter does not necessarily mean he is a brilliant hitter yet. All that means is he has the potential to one day be one. What you need to watch are the individual player pages (double click a player.. it should show their talent AND their current rating. It is the numerical rating that you need to watch here). You can also see these as charts by checking out the major and minor league rosters of your team and sorting using the drop down menu. Now you should still follow the player dev. report closely but you are confusing talent and ratings. Both are important just that one is potential (talent) and one is their current skill (rating).

04-27-2003, 11:06 PM	#11
Plutoro Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 276	Ah, Thank you Jattractive that is what was confusing me . I thought that was the numercial change. I just wish there was a way to view the numerical change on 1 page.

04-28-2003, 01:21 AM	#12
JAttractive All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Posts: 1,135	Well the ratings fluctuate constantly so the page would be a complete mess to try and follow. Ratings will go up and down both from development, lack of playing, injuries, age, random fluctuations etc. It would literally dwarf the player development page. Talent changes are pretty rare so making a page for that works but not so for ratings. However since most changes (both ratings and talent) seem to occur each week simmed you can just check the important guys once a week.

04-28-2003, 03:37 PM	#13
Plutoro Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 276	Hey, I dont want to clutter the board more with my newb questions but I do have 1 more. What role does team chemistry play, and how can I improve it?