AI roster decisions

luckymann · 10-01-2020, 02:56 AM

Here is a prime example of why I think some serious work needs to go into the AI logic with regard to acquiring and releasing players.

There are currently 921 FA relievers in my league at the moment. None of them are great, the majority are 20/20 but some aren't. So why in the name of love would a team not only acquire this Disruptive RP who couldn't throw a tantrum and is 6 weeks from being able to play because he's on the IL with a torn UCL, but pay him a signing bonus for the privilege?

No side would IRL, can't see how hard it would be to add a few more lines of logic to make the AI decisions reflect that.

BBGiovanni · 10-01-2020, 10:15 AM

I can't help you with explaining the game AI, but as usual I don't have to go back far in Mets/Giants lore to find an exact and inexplicable real-life analog. Sorry for not being useful, but baseball reality sometimes really is dumber than the algorithms.

On an even less-related topic, that is one sweet league logo!

Rain King · 10-01-2020, 10:18 AM

Are Scouts turned on? Have you checked to see what that team's scout thinks of the player? They are not basing their decisions on the same ratings that you are seeing from your scout or OSA.

SirMichaelJordan · 10-01-2020, 10:56 AM

Too many variables for players so close in ratings to make an informed opinion without much details. Not to mention RP OVR are weird to begin with.

On the plus side, he has great control. How does that match up with the other group?

As for AI signing injured players. It have gotten better each version. I see lots of talented injured players sit in FA’s.

BIG17EASY · 10-01-2020, 12:13 PM

The signing of an injured pitcher isn't that big of a deal. Giving a signing bonus to a guy who has never pitched above A ball, and has struggled at that level, is a major problem. That's not realistic in any way, shape or form.

SirMichaelJordan · 10-01-2020, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

The signing of an injured pitcher isn't that big of a deal. Giving a signing bonus to a guy who has never pitched above A ball, and has struggled at that level, is a major problem. That's not realistic in any way, shape or form.

In my experience, younger minor league signings usually come with a signing bonus.

Overall, I think minor league signings would be better if they actually had a contract. It’s annoying seeing these players get signed then released over and over if you have a service time limits on for your AAA leagues. I do 10 years to keep the league from getting old.

BIG17EASY · 10-01-2020, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

In my experience, younger minor league signings usually come with a signing bonus.

Sorry, but what experience is that? I'm genuinely curious.

In real life, almost no minor league signings include a signing bonus, and the ones that do are either high-level prospects taken in the first few rounds of the draft or guys with MLB experience who take a minor league deal with a bonus and try to earn a spot on the big league roster.

No minor league signing like the one in the OP (25-year-old who hasn't gotten above A ball) ever gets a signing bonus.

SirMichaelJordan · 10-01-2020, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Sorry, but what experience is that? I'm genuinely curious.

In real life, almost no minor league signings include a signing bonus, and the ones that do are either high-level prospects taken in the first few rounds of the draft or guys with MLB experience who take a minor league deal with a bonus and try to earn a spot on the big league roster.

No minor league signing like the one in the OP (25-year-old who hasn't gotten above A ball) ever gets a signing bonus.

I’m referring to the game.

Also that information along with salary is disclosed. For all we know, all players might get a salary and some money for signing on.

BIG17EASY · 10-01-2020, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

I’m referring to the game.

Also that information along with salary is disclosed. For all we know, all players might get a salary and some money for signing on.

Yes, it does happen in the game, and it's not realistic.

Also, I think you mean undisclosed. But you're unintentionally correct. Minor league salaries are disclosed - https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2020/02/16...r-2021-season/.

SirMichaelJordan · 10-01-2020, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Yes, it does happen in the game, and it's not realistic.

Also, I think you mean undisclosed. But you're unintentionally correct. Minor league salaries are disclosed - https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2020/02/16...r-2021-season/.

Ok.I’m not sure if we are disagreeing here. I’m saying that it usually happens in the game for the AI.

Whether it’s realistic or not is up to real world information. I never said it did or did not lol.

SirMichaelJordan · 10-01-2020, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Yes, it does happen in the game, and it's not realistic.

Also, I think you mean undisclosed. But you're unintentionally correct. Minor league salaries are disclosed - https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2020/02/16...r-2021-season/.

The range of salaries were always known. I’m taking about individual salaries like they are for MLB. But that’s besides the point.

BIG17EASY · 10-01-2020, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

Ok.I’m not sure if we are disagreeing here. I’m saying that it usually happens in the game for the AI.

Whether it’s realistic or not is up to real world information. I never said it did or did not lol.

Sorry, you replied to my post about minor league signing bonuses being a problem because they are unrealistic. I assumed you were disagreeing based on your reply. I guess I assumed wrong. You can disregard this entire exchange.

SirMichaelJordan · 10-01-2020, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Sorry, you replied to my post about minor league signing bonuses being a problem because they are unrealistic. I assumed you were disagreeing based on your reply. I guess I assumed wrong. You can disregard this entire exchange.

Lol it’s all good brother.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Timofmars · 10-01-2020, 01:45 PM

I see lots of inexplicable decisions by the AI, even with 100% scouting accuracy and the manager evaluations set to use scouting 100% in evaluating players.

When it comes to free agents, perhaps there's some sort of randomness programmed into the AI to make things varied so all teams don't go after the same best players all at once. It's easier to see in the offseason. There will be teams that will put in bids for a more expensive player (in terms of their salary demands) when there is a better player in the same role with a bargain asking price.

Or also, teams that have plenty of money will sign a bunch of filler players rated at or near 20 overall for under 2 million each, while not using their money to compete for players with real value. Those teams signing the 20/20 players at the start of the free agency period seem to be weakest teams, so they must be looking for anything that offers a minor improvement to their current players.

So maybe the team decided what they wanted, like an SP with a minimum overall rating rating of x, randomly selected a player that met those requirements, and put in an offer. Maybe in the OP's case, the team wanted a player for A ball and randomly selected one.

But yeah, one of my biggest wishes for the game is to have a smarter, more competitive AI. Currently, the AI depends too much on arbitrary values in the financial settings that tell it how much a star player should cost, or an weak player, etc. I think it'd be great if it could be reworked to depend on more complex algorithms involving supply and demand and scarcity/availability of talent and much of the things you'd really consider as a human player.

luckymann · 10-02-2020, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBGiovanni

On an even less-related topic, that is one sweet league logo!

Courtesy of the brilliant davwlms. His one for my Footnote League is equally superb.

luckymann · 10-02-2020, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain King

Are Scouts turned on? Have you checked to see what that team's scout thinks of the player? They are not basing their decisions on the same ratings that you are seeing from your scout or OSA.

I used "ACT AS" to check that and it didn't look noticeably different. Maybe he just was the best of the bunch within the constraints that franchise had in place at the time. But still, the injury and DISRUPTIVE status really should play a huge part in the decision-making process, as they do IRL.

For example, you can't really tell me this guy isn't a viable option. He's also a RHP, is younger, has similar ratings. But is healthy and has much better personality traits. Now obviously there could be some factor(s) I'm not seeing here, but if not there's no way anyone in their right mind would pick the other guy over this one.

Zeth · 10-03-2020, 11:19 PM

I just had an AI team sign Dennis Eckersley—out for 10 months after getting Tommy Johned the previous October—to a 2 year/$2.5M contract (pretty sizable money for 1992), with the second year as a player option. Not even notably backloaded. Thanks for the money, suckers!

10-01-2020, 02:56 AM	#1
luckymann Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 14,057	AI roster decisions Here is a prime example of why I think some serious work needs to go into the AI logic with regard to acquiring and releasing players. There are currently 921 FA relievers in my league at the moment. None of them are great, the majority are 20/20 but some aren't. So why in the name of love would a team not only acquire this Disruptive RP who couldn't throw a tantrum and is 6 weeks from being able to play because he's on the IL with a torn UCL, but pay him a signing bonus for the privilege? No side would IRL, can't see how hard it would be to add a few more lines of logic to make the AI decisions reflect that. Attached Images

10-01-2020, 10:15 AM	#2
BBGiovanni All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Republic of California Posts: 1,910	I can't help you with explaining the game AI, but as usual I don't have to go back far in Mets/Giants lore to find an exact and inexplicable real-life analog. Sorry for not being useful, but baseball reality sometimes really is dumber than the algorithms. On an even less-related topic, that is one sweet league logo! __________________ Let's Go (San Jose) Giants, Let's Go Mets! Current Project: WBAT/AABBA: Organized Base Ball And the "New Normal" World Baseball Aid Tournament 2023 trophy round underway!

10-01-2020, 10:18 AM	#3
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,323	Are Scouts turned on? Have you checked to see what that team's scout thinks of the player? They are not basing their decisions on the same ratings that you are seeing from your scout or OSA.

10-01-2020, 10:56 AM	#4
SirMichaelJordan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2,716	Too many variables for players so close in ratings to make an informed opinion without much details. Not to mention RP OVR are weird to begin with. On the plus side, he has great control. How does that match up with the other group? As for AI signing injured players. It have gotten better each version. I see lots of talented injured players sit in FA’s.

10-01-2020, 12:13 PM	#5
BIG17EASY Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,291	The signing of an injured pitcher isn't that big of a deal. Giving a signing bonus to a guy who has never pitched above A ball, and has struggled at that level, is a major problem. That's not realistic in any way, shape or form.

10-01-2020, 01:45 PM	#14
Timofmars Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 251	I see lots of inexplicable decisions by the AI, even with 100% scouting accuracy and the manager evaluations set to use scouting 100% in evaluating players. When it comes to free agents, perhaps there's some sort of randomness programmed into the AI to make things varied so all teams don't go after the same best players all at once. It's easier to see in the offseason. There will be teams that will put in bids for a more expensive player (in terms of their salary demands) when there is a better player in the same role with a bargain asking price. Or also, teams that have plenty of money will sign a bunch of filler players rated at or near 20 overall for under 2 million each, while not using their money to compete for players with real value. Those teams signing the 20/20 players at the start of the free agency period seem to be weakest teams, so they must be looking for anything that offers a minor improvement to their current players. So maybe the team decided what they wanted, like an SP with a minimum overall rating rating of x, randomly selected a player that met those requirements, and put in an offer. Maybe in the OP's case, the team wanted a player for A ball and randomly selected one. But yeah, one of my biggest wishes for the game is to have a smarter, more competitive AI. Currently, the AI depends too much on arbitrary values in the financial settings that tell it how much a star player should cost, or an weak player, etc. I think it'd be great if it could be reworked to depend on more complex algorithms involving supply and demand and scarcity/availability of talent and much of the things you'd really consider as a human player.

10-03-2020, 11:19 PM	#17
Zeth Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 15	I just had an AI team sign Dennis Eckersley—out for 10 months after getting Tommy Johned the previous October—to a 2 year/$2.5M contract (pretty sizable money for 1992), with the second year as a player option. Not even notably backloaded. Thanks for the money, suckers!