Should I fire my bench coach? ...

tomnov · 07-24-2019, 06:30 PM

... or just stop playing the game?
I'm playing a random debut league based starting in 1960.
I'm playing as commissioner, and GM/manager of a team.
I don't play out the games, I let the whole day sim at a time.
Anyway, I set up my pitching staff with a 5 man rotation, setup man, closer, 2 general relievers, and 1 guy who is a position player, that has sub-optimal pitching ratings, but not the worst. I've got the setting on him to "Avoid high leverage". I have a rested bullpen,a stable rotation where the starters recover before their assigned start.
So guess who was pitching in the 9th inning of a tie ballgame?
Yep -- the position player. Gives up a home run, loses the game.
Neither my setup man or closer had been in the game yet, or pitched yesterday.
Was this the bench coach's stupid decision, or simply poor logic from the AI?
Would it do any good to fire the coach? Last year in OOTP19, I had a great historical game starting in 1871 that I had worked up to 1886, acting simply as GM that I had painstakingly manually added minor leagues (I had just expanded them to the AA level). The existing manager wouldn't play my preferred lineups at all, so I fired him and the new manager wasn't much better, so I got frustrated with the game and quit, but missed it enough to buy OOTP20 when it went on sale for the All-Star game.

I really WANT to like this game, since it has so many great features, but it has almost as many things that bug me like this.
If the coach or AI just COMPLETELY overrides my wishes, how can I trust the game to do anything?

What should I be doing differently??

Dyzalot · 07-24-2019, 06:36 PM

This is an ongoing issue with that feature. In my experience, the OOTP engine doesn't see situations as "high leverage" just because it is close or tied late in a game. I think there have to be runners on or maybe even a runner in scoring position. That's what it looks like to me just from casual observation of a few hundred games based in a modern universe.

Gruber_Tagged_Him · 07-24-2019, 06:45 PM

My 2 cents (which is prolly only worth 0.5 cents vs others on here, but here I am anyway) : if you designate a position player as a pitching alternative he WILL get used, probably far more often than you want.

Yes the AI makes odd reliever choices. But don't make it worse by throwing a position player into the list of choices. AI will do that itself in extreme emergencies. Which is what is kind of missing here - I don't know of a way to designate a position player as "the first guy out of the pen when we are losing 15-0 and all of our pitchers are broken"...

Understood that in 1960 a 4 man bullpen (plus the utility dude) might be appropriate, although odd since 5-man rotations weren't a thing much in 1960, but you might want to add an extra reliever spot instead.

Drstrangelove · 07-24-2019, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomnov

... and 1 guy who is a position player, that has sub-optimal pitching ratings, but not the worst.

What should I be doing differently??

Not do that.

tomnov · 07-25-2019, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gruber_Tagged_Him

...
Understood that in 1960 a 4 man bullpen (plus the utility dude) might be appropriate, although odd since 5-man rotations weren't a thing much in 1960, but you might want to add an extra reliever spot instead.

I tried a 4 man rotation at first, as I remember my hometown Orioles using a 4 man rotation (of 20 game winners, twice) in the late 60s & early 70s, but my pitchers were still tired when their turn came around in the rotation again.
Of course, I've seen pitch counts in the 120-130 range or more.
No wonder they're tired 4 days later.

OldFatGuy · 07-25-2019, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomnov

I tried a 4 man rotation at first, as I remember my hometown Orioles using a 4 man rotation (of 20 game winners, twice) in the late 60s & early 70s, but my pitchers were still tired when their turn came around in the rotation again.
Of course, I've seen pitch counts in the 120-130 range or more.
No wonder they're tired 4 days later.

You also have to adjust Pitcher Stamina to be what it was in the 1960's (or you could just click on the button to set up all of the adjustments for say 1963. This will adjust everything though... not just starting pitching.). Once that's set right, pitchers are fully rested on 3 days rest like they were back then.

Screenshot 1 shows settings starting a new standard 2019 game. Screenshot 2 shows settings after picking 1963 as the year, and as you can see the Starting Pitcher Stamina changed significantly.

tomnov · 07-25-2019, 11:56 PM

Thank you.
I did use the select year for 1960, didn't realize I could also independently adjust the pitchers' stamina, but probably wouldn't have fiddled with it, figuring the game engine's algorithm would be realistic for the era.
Thinking about it even now, I think the number of pitches thrown are quite high enough to be a realistic representation of the stamina, but maybe the game engine should have a user-selectable setting called "Starter Recovery".
That particular variable might still reflect how today's game is played, and not as much the earlier eras.
Just a thought.

07-24-2019, 06:30 PM	#1
tomnov Minors (Double A) Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 118	Should I fire my bench coach? ... ... or just stop playing the game? I'm playing a random debut league based starting in 1960. I'm playing as commissioner, and GM/manager of a team. I don't play out the games, I let the whole day sim at a time. Anyway, I set up my pitching staff with a 5 man rotation, setup man, closer, 2 general relievers, and 1 guy who is a position player, that has sub-optimal pitching ratings, but not the worst. I've got the setting on him to "Avoid high leverage". I have a rested bullpen,a stable rotation where the starters recover before their assigned start. So guess who was pitching in the 9th inning of a tie ballgame? Yep -- the position player. Gives up a home run, loses the game. Neither my setup man or closer had been in the game yet, or pitched yesterday. Was this the bench coach's stupid decision, or simply poor logic from the AI? Would it do any good to fire the coach? Last year in OOTP19, I had a great historical game starting in 1871 that I had worked up to 1886, acting simply as GM that I had painstakingly manually added minor leagues (I had just expanded them to the AA level). The existing manager wouldn't play my preferred lineups at all, so I fired him and the new manager wasn't much better, so I got frustrated with the game and quit, but missed it enough to buy OOTP20 when it went on sale for the All-Star game. I really WANT to like this game, since it has so many great features, but it has almost as many things that bug me like this. If the coach or AI just COMPLETELY overrides my wishes, how can I trust the game to do anything? What should I be doing differently??

07-24-2019, 06:36 PM	#2
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,735	This is an ongoing issue with that feature. In my experience, the OOTP engine doesn't see situations as "high leverage" just because it is close or tied late in a game. I think there have to be runners on or maybe even a runner in scoring position. That's what it looks like to me just from casual observation of a few hundred games based in a modern universe.

07-24-2019, 06:45 PM	#3
Gruber_Tagged_Him Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Canada Posts: 209	My 2 cents (which is prolly only worth 0.5 cents vs others on here, but here I am anyway) : if you designate a position player as a pitching alternative he WILL get used, probably far more often than you want. Yes the AI makes odd reliever choices. But don't make it worse by throwing a position player into the list of choices. AI will do that itself in extreme emergencies. Which is what is kind of missing here - I don't know of a way to designate a position player as "the first guy out of the pen when we are losing 15-0 and all of our pitchers are broken"... Understood that in 1960 a 4 man bullpen (plus the utility dude) might be appropriate, although odd since 5-man rotations weren't a thing much in 1960, but you might want to add an extra reliever spot instead.

07-25-2019, 11:56 PM	#7
tomnov Minors (Double A) Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 118	Thank you. I did use the select year for 1960, didn't realize I could also independently adjust the pitchers' stamina, but probably wouldn't have fiddled with it, figuring the game engine's algorithm would be realistic for the era. Thinking about it even now, I think the number of pitches thrown are quite high enough to be a realistic representation of the stamina, but maybe the game engine should have a user-selectable setting called "Starter Recovery". That particular variable might still reflect how today's game is played, and not as much the earlier eras. Just a thought.