Who is a good catcher to use on a sub 3k budget?

[Findest2001]

I have tried virtually everyone and have had no success. The closest I got to sustained success was Carlton Fisk but he ended up having 2 terrible seasons back-to-back and really cost me so I had to let him go.


Here are some of the ones I've tried:
Yasmani Grandal
AJ Ellis
Wes Westrum
Butch Wynegar
Carlton Fisk
Todd Hundley
Buster Posey
JT Realmuto
Jody Davis
Gary Sanchez
Bo Diaz
Gary Carter
Tucker Barnhart
Elias Diaz
Yadier Molina
Salvador Perez
I think I tried Varitek, but I don't remember.
I still havent been lucky enough to have enough PP any time Benito Santiago was available in the AH. I'd like to try him.



I've tried defense only, a balanced mix, an even offense only and my catchers consistently get less than .4 WAR over a whole season with caught stealing percentages less than 35% (even the defense first catchers).


So, is it just incredibly hard to find good catcher in this game? I swear I scroll through 4-5 pages of AH catchers and it's like they're either iron level or someone I've tried before. I should note I'm in silver level.

[Dogberry99]

One thing suspected by many is that the constant underperformance from catchers is related to increased fatigue rates. The other leading theory seems to focus on the fact that most catchers have subpar contact ratings, far more than other positions.

Personally, I ignored catchers for the longest time, calling Jody Davis good enough even as I was promoted into Perfect Leagues. Funny enough, he was actually good enough to make the All Star team one season at the Diamond Level, which was definitely the exception not the norm. I eventually upgraded to a platoon between Scioscia and Pena, with Pena also set as the Defensive Replacement, which seems to help Scioscia's fatigue level a bit (idk why it works, but it seems to help).

[Findest2001]

I appreciate the response. I have already toyed with fatigue levels and gone from using my backup "if starter tired", which I learned quickly was not good, to having my backup catch every third game. Even running a platoon with a 50-50 swap of equal ratings catchers I found the performance to be very very poor. Gary carter was the closest I came to finding a decent one, and Carlton Fisk was a close second, but like I said I never coaxed better than a .4 WAR season from either, and they were my BEST catchers in 9+ seasons.


If anyone else has suggestions I'm all ears. I really want to solidify this. I have 2 catchers right now in silver, both hitting below mendoza (well-below) with one having a -.7 WAR and the other -.3WAR, and they've played 45 and 34 games respectively.

[Kushiel]

I believe in the school of the defense first catcher with high catcher ability. I have shown myself enough proof that they actually do help the pitching staff since beta started. I have seen it on my teams so any argument is of no consequence to me. Therefore, I use 2 defensive catchers keeping them fresh. Ultimately you must decide. I have Molina and Rodriguez and neither has ever given more than 2.5 WAR but they have much more value with their combined CERA in the low 3.xx's even with 14 years in Perfect League Level. Do my catchers make my pitchers; do my pitchers make my catchers; or do they work together?

Personally, I would save more for a good catcher. Sundberg is really good at lower price. But he will not hit what you seem to want either.

[Blazinghalo]

I've had success with a Mike Lieberthal/Bob Boone platoon. Both would stretch your 3k budget but might provide you better production in the long run.
The best single season WAR was a 2.0 by Lieberthal.

[Kushiel]

I seen Lieberthal this morning on the AH 6k. He would be a really good choice for one of your catchers.

[HiDesertAce]

Originally Posted by Kushiel

I seen Lieberthal this morning on the AH 6k. He would be a really good choice for one of your catchers.

yes I agree and was coming in here to suggest him. he seems to tire much faster than other catchers in my experience and i alternate every other start with whoever is backing him up.



LIVE posey could also work as at least he can hit lefties and back up first base.


even the expensive catchers are not going to hit. 100 Bench routinely hit sub 200 for me.



i do think the catcher ability and arm are the most important things to focus on. don't pay for the bat.

[pappyzan]

Originally Posted by HiDesertAce

i do think the catcher ability and arm are the most important things to focus on. don't pay for the bat.

Definitely don't pay for the bat. The only offensive catcher rating that might be halfway consistently useful in perfect leagues is walks; so for high defense catchers, I'd take someone like Sundberg over Boone, Lieberthal, Santiago, Pena and Pudge. His BB rating isn't really all that great, but it's a good bit higher than Pena, Lieberthal, Santiago and especially Pudge.

Bat him last in the lineup and hope he gets on base with a walk or a lucky hit so the top of the order might drive him in.

But of course YMMV

[pappyzan]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

I appreciate the response. I have already toyed with fatigue levels and gone from using my backup "if starter tired", which I learned quickly was not good, to having my backup catch every third game. Even running a platoon with a 50-50 swap of equal ratings catchers I found the performance to be very very poor. Gary carter was the closest I came to finding a decent one, and Carlton Fisk was a close second, but like I said I never coaxed better than a .4 WAR season from either, and they were my BEST catchers in 9+ seasons.

If anyone else has suggestions I'm all ears. I really want to solidify this. I have 2 catchers right now in silver, both hitting below mendoza (well-below) with one having a -.7 WAR and the other -.3WAR, and they've played 45 and 34 games respectively.

In PT, CERA appears to be more important for a catcher that WAR, you're rarely going to see an impressive WAR number from your catcher in a single season, much less consistently every season. Set the backup to come in every 2nd game to help with fatigue.

[pappyzan]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

I've tried defense only, a balanced mix, an even offense only and my catchers consistently get less than .4 WAR over a whole season with caught stealing percentages less than 35% (even the defense first catchers).

3rd post since I'm not smart enough to remember to multi-quote. Caught Stealing percentages are important, but so is the number of stealing attempts. Defensive catchers will naturally have a lower number of stealing attempts against them. Occasionally caught stealing percentages will dip below 35% for the season, but they still allow fewer attempts regardless.

Also factored into stealing attempts and caught stealing percentages is the Hold Runners rating on your pitchers. If they poorly hold runners, more steals are attempted and caught stealing percentages are naturally lower.

[Mizzery]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

I have tried virtually everyone and have had no success. The closest I got to sustained success was Carlton Fisk but he ended up having 2 terrible seasons back-to-back and really cost me so I had to let him go.


Here are some of the ones I've tried:
Yasmani Grandal
AJ Ellis
Wes Westrum
Butch Wynegar
Carlton Fisk
Todd Hundley
Buster Posey
JT Realmuto
Jody Davis
Gary Sanchez
Bo Diaz
Gary Carter
Tucker Barnhart
Elias Diaz
Yadier Molina
Salvador Perez
I think I tried Varitek, but I don't remember.
I still havent been lucky enough to have enough PP any time Benito Santiago was available in the AH. I'd like to try him.



I've tried defense only, a balanced mix, an even offense only and my catchers consistently get less than .4 WAR over a whole season with caught stealing percentages less than 35% (even the defense first catchers).


So, is it just incredibly hard to find good catcher in this game? I swear I scroll through 4-5 pages of AH catchers and it's like they're either iron level or someone I've tried before. I should note I'm in silver level.

Two relatively affordable catchers I have had great success with up to the Diamond level are Wilson Ramos and Mike Scioscia. Both consistently at 700 and higher OPS, and while Ramos has good defensive metrics, Scioscia has excellent defensive ratings.

A third option not quite at the consistency level of those two but still good in this price range is Terry Kennedy.

Jody Davis was mentioned earlier and is surprisingly useful for a bronze card, especially when platooned.

[FancySkunk]

Mistakeninly posted on the wrong forum. Sorry.

[Dunzie]

I don't even care if my catchers hit. I want a guy with a high defensive rating. If they can even hit their weight I'm thrilled as long as they throw out runners and help pitching do their best.

Some defensive gems at silver level are Tony Pena, Benito Santiago, Gary Carter, and Charles Johnson. At gold you can't beat Ivan Rodriguez, although Lieberthal is great too. Rarer but also great is Ray Fosse.

[Findest2001]

Thanks for all the replies! I guess I'm right where I should be then. If and when the cards mentioned are ever on the AH I will look into them. Santiago, Charles Johnson, Sciosca, I have Davis on every team I have, Pena, and Kennedy. However, I am on the AH 3x/day every day and I have yet to see any of those guys available. I guess they're super rare or people don't want to get rid of them. A brief scan of the AH and literally every catcher available in my price range I have tried before.

[HiDesertAce]

i feel your pain on the AH.



unfortunately many players have moved on to 20.


and there is no activity in 19. so no packs being ripped. no players being sold on AH so you can improve.



which leads to more players not engaging in 19.


i find myself checking into 19 less and less because there is nothing for me to buy on AH at reasonable or market prices. so i just set my team and check in again in a day or two.

[Findest2001]

Originally Posted by pappyzan

Definitely don't pay for the bat. The only offensive catcher rating that might be halfway consistently useful in perfect leagues is walks; so for high defense catchers, I'd take someone like Sundberg over Boone, Lieberthal, Santiago, Pena and Pudge. His BB rating isn't really all that great, but it's a good bit higher than Pena, Lieberthal, Santiago and especially Pudge.

Bat him last in the lineup and hope he gets on base with a walk or a lucky hit so the top of the order might drive him in.

But of course YMMV

Which Pudge are you referring to here, Fisk or Rodriguez?

[Kushiel]

Originally Posted by HiDesertAce

i find myself checking into 19 less and less because there is nothing for me to buy on AH at reasonable or market prices. so i just set my team and check in again in a day or two.

More and more the case for me too.

[pappyzan]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

Which Pudge are you referring to here, Fisk or Rodriguez?

Rodriguez

[Findest2001]

I will just have to be patient I guess. But the catcher thing is ridiculous. I'm not expecting a .350 hitting catcher, but I would be ECSTATIC if I could find a catcher who could hit the Mendoza line at least. I mean seriously, right now my catchers are hitting .048 and .125 (edit) and I've given them a 50-50 split of playing time so it's not fatigue. That's ridiculous. The best catcher I ever had is Gary Carter playing for my theme team, and he hit .206 in his best year. Pitchers hit better than this...

[mcdog512]

I found Manny Sanguillen to be pretty good. He might be gold, not sure as I’m not at my computer.