Best bargain catcher?

[Hobbes63]

First, a comment I'm sure has been raised. It would be AWESOME if the auction screen let you filter on abilities. Often what you're looking for, as in this case, is a backup player who is good at a certain thing. It is quite tedious to have to open up every single player on the auction list to see if they have that one thing.

To my question...looking for a good backup catcher...who has a really good catcher rating. Obviously, not going to be that great a hitter, or wouldn't be a backup. Anybody have any suggestions?

Is it worth carrying 2 starter level catchers, for this same reason? It's the one position a typical utility player can't play. So, the backup does get into games.

Is there any value in pairing catchers with pitchers in OOTP? This happens a lot in real baseball, but strikes me as something very difficult to model.

To help answer....Wilson Ramos is my current catcher. Looking at either adding a better backup behind him, or possibly picking up Posey/similar. My current backup C is Butch Wynegar...and maybe he is the best player for what I am describing?

Help much appreciated! Thanks!

[Orcin]

Wynegar is good. Austin Hedges is great defensively. Salvador Perez is decent, especially the all-star version.

[Cactusguy21]

I know the feeling. I wish the "filter by potential" feature was actually functional, it would make stuff like this easier.

Edit: I think you meant to put this in the Perfect Team forum, there's no auction in the regular game, just a terrible free agent list where the filters only work half the time.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Hobbes63

First, a comment I'm sure has been raised. It would be AWESOME if the auction screen let you filter on abilities. Often what you're looking for, as in this case, is a backup player who is good at a certain thing. It is quite tedious to have to open up every single player on the auction list to see if they have that one thing.

To my question...looking for a good backup catcher...who has a really good catcher rating. Obviously, not going to be that great a hitter, or wouldn't be a backup. Anybody have any suggestions?

Is it worth carrying 2 starter level catchers, for this same reason? It's the one position a typical utility player can't play. So, the backup does get into games.

Is there any value in pairing catchers with pitchers in OOTP? This happens a lot in real baseball, but strikes me as something very difficult to model.

To help answer....Wilson Ramos is my current catcher. Looking at either adding a better backup behind him, or possibly picking up Posey/similar. My current backup C is Butch Wynegar...and maybe he is the best player for what I am describing?

Help much appreciated! Thanks!

If he's anything like he is in my random debut game, Mike Matheny is your go to backup catcher. At least on a team where your starter is playing a typical (for about ten or twenty years ago) 130 games a year. Mike Lieberthal should be great defensively too, and he's a much better hitter than Matheny.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

If he's anything like he is in my random debut game, Mike Matheny is your go to backup catcher. At least on a team where your starter is playing a typical (for about ten or twenty years ago) 130 games a year. Mike Lieberthal should be great defensively too, and he's a much better hitter than Matheny.

Lieberthal is really good in PT. I haven't seen a Matheny card yet.

[Hobbes63]

Originally Posted by Cactusguy21

Edit: I think you meant to put this in the Perfect Team forum, there's no auction in the regular game, just a terrible free agent list where the filters only work half the time.

Ya, hadn't played regular yet, wasn't sure how free agency worked there...but figured it had the same issue with the filtering.

[NoOne]

EDIT: a platoon may or may not be worth the effort. L/R split could give a small advantage... but still talking about terrible batters... so a few % better than terrible isn't so important and not much of a gain, typically due to starting with small #s.

"Is there any value in pairing catchers with pitchers in OOTP? This happens a lot in real baseball, but strikes me as something very difficult to model."
--pretty sure that is not in the game. catcher ability does influence pitchers -- it must be incredibly small factor from my experience. i've had bad and good years with good and bad catchers... it's so weakly correlated i wouldn't worry too much beyond common sense... ie don't employ a catcher wtih 10/100 ability.

keep the cheaper one with ~equivalent ability, because there's very little differentiation between most catchers.

few catchers are actually "good" beyond playing their position. a "good" catcher is typically barely average and batting 7-8-9 in order on any playoff team. on top of that they are only playing 3/4ths to 4/5ths of the season... .75 of a normal batter factored into anything they do well.

i wouldn't spend 10-20m on 2 crap players -- 80-90% of catchers are crap batters in any 800+ RS offense, or a ~playoff-caliber offense. so it depends on cost. even 5-10m sitting on bench 50% of the time is a gigantic waste with 2 starters sharing and could exceed waste of just 1 overpaid catcher. you can gain more wins be investing that capital elsewhere with a greater return per dollar. an extra 5m spent at any other position will net a greater increase in wins -- on average, infinite sample.

i rarely spend big money on a catcher unless they are obviously a step above the rest. usualyl 1-2 of these types in league and any time in a fictional league.. .sometimes more, somtimes only ~1. even more rare is an offfesnive bat that can not only hit home runs but consistently bat for a decent BA each year, instead of crossing your fingers and hoping.

a weak (~10hr or less average over 130gs) catcher with high BA can give you 80runs/80rbi most years. add a few hr and deduct 20-30pts off BA nd you get the same results, but more likely clumpy. a higher BA essentialyl hedges things a bit as far as RS in any given year (reduces volatility of results).

either way, i'm not spending 10+M on some jobber given me ~80rs ~80rbi and only playing 130g. take the cheap defensive guy or the cheap guy with ~80 contact with no power... the money you saved and spend elsewhere will more than make up for the 5-10 lost RS/RBI. don't pay millions for a player that's only slightly better than average and due to position causes high demand and exorbitant costs for return.

you have to have a catcher... compare what you gain or lose and you'll quickly see that the 'loss' is smaller than other positions with similar cost differences... so, obviously you take the net positive and go cheap on the positions with weak talent.

every context is different.

what's opportunity cost?

what are you getting at various costs and how they compare to each other... paying too much for a menial increase? probably not the best path to take.

[Hobbes63]

Good post, agree with all. Trying to figure out the cost/value is exactly what I am trying to do.

How much does a GREAT catcher help pitching? A couple I'm looking at are 90+, and then there is Pudge at 130. How much would he help the pitching?

[NoOne]

meh... so little the human eye likely cannot tell due to so much volatility and other factors being supremely more important. it's a small piece of the pie.

like i said, i'd still avoid the horribly defensive rated catchers unless he's ~mike trout offensive ability type player. i stick to ~1/2 scale or better on catching ability and arm... i'll let the arm dip a bit more than ability as far as forgiveness. more forgiving with better offense but i won't let either dip too low or both be lower than i prefer.

if no striking bats exist, i go for cheapest that meets these requirements... with best contact/power combo. i then look at how much different the range gets and whether it's worth it to get one of the more expensive ones.

~15-25M and he better be a .280+ hitter consistently and 15-20hr in 130g - that guy can reach 80-90+rbi and 80+ runs consitently in my league (fewer HR than default, you should expect 2-3 more HR with defualt and more rs/rbi along with those). i may have a little less income than default too... that's a league with ~125-130M payrolls average. some teams would pay that catcher ~30m in my league. obviously, i pass at that amount for any guy that only plays 130/162games.

i.e. a 50/100 vs a 130/100 isn't going to turn a crap pitcher into a better pitcher. they will still be a crap pitcher. will it shave a fraction of ???? off? probably somewhere.

anecdotal:

i just had a stretch of amazingly rated pitchers not doing so well as i'd expect. i think the catcher is 90/100 ability during that time. they had some good years, but not consistent like i normally get from similarly rated SP. no small sample of comparison... i have reasonable expectations compared to most.

i go decades with ~1/2 scale catchers and most other SP have had much better results with similar ratings. not to say bad stretchec don't occur... but the rate of occurence is similar to the eye... you'd need a spreadsheet to know the differences between a 1/2scale catcher and a top-shelf ability catcher.

the correlation has to be extremely weak. it definitely exists, because they say it does, but nonetheless it's a very small piece of the pie that is easily outweighed by a plethora of other factors.

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by Hobbes63

Good post, agree with all. Trying to figure out the cost/value is exactly what I am trying to do.

How much does a GREAT catcher help pitching? A couple I'm looking at are 90+, and then there is Pudge at 130. How much would he help the pitching?

I'm still not sure how much defense is worth it, and I can look at the code

Personally on my team, I've got a Wockenfuss and a Molina, and keep going back and forth on which one to play more. Wock has a really nice batting card, but is like a 47 on defense, while Molina isn't nearly the hitter, but is stellar defensively. I gotta think that Molina's D makes up for the bat, but Wockenfuss won POW one of the first weeks of the season, has a really cool name, and definitely extends my lineup.

[Dogberry99]

I have been getting respectable production both offensively and defensively from Jody Davis (67 OVR), and from what I've seen, I am not alone in this opinion. 67 Power gives him a bit of pop, and his defense at catcher is 97 (85 Ability, 79 Arm)

[Morug]

My first catcher is Realmuto and backup one is Darrell Porter 64 ov. My plan is to have Gary Carter(my team is Expos player oriented) for starter and Realmuto backup in a near futur.

[SayHey1]

Other than pitching, I feel Catcher is the most difficult spot to fill. During the beta, I had a L/R platoon going that was just ok in results.

I finally decided that unless you are a whale or get incredibly lucky you are just going to have to decide what's more important to your team.....do you need another big bat or do you need incredible defense that can (slightly) influence your pitching too.

I opt for the great defense option. My catcher can't hit his weight, but he throws out almost 50% of base stealers and I RARELY see him with a passed ball. He also currently has zero errors for the year.

Opting for great defense isn't always the answer for everyone. But it is for MY overall team. Consider what YOUR team needs and the answer should be obvious...that's my advice. Good luck!

[Galeg]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Wynegar is good. Austin Hedges is great defensively. Salvador Perez is decent, especially the all-star version.

Also had success with Wynegar.

[Hobbes63]

Originally Posted by Morug

My first catcher is Realmuto and backup one is Darrell Porter 64 ov. My plan is to have Gary Carter(my team is Expos player oriented) for starter and Realmuto backup in a near futur.

Mostly the same situation as me. I have Wilson Ramos, and was also looking at Carter, but as my backup. But then I started thinking of maybe upgrading more than that, and using Ramos as my backup.


Ramos playing good, thinking I might go with Carter for now. Not much investment to make on that.

[WBTyler939]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

I'm still not sure how much defense is worth it, and I can look at the code

Personally on my team, I've got a Wockenfuss and a Molina, and keep going back and forth on which one to play more. Wock has a really nice batting card, but is like a 47 on defense, while Molina isn't nearly the hitter, but is stellar defensively. I gotta think that Molina's D makes up for the bat, but Wockenfuss won POW one of the first weeks of the season, has a really cool name, and definitely extends my lineup.

Any response about filtering by abilities? I, and several others, have asked about this numerous times and no one at OOTP will even give us a response. Please stop ignoring this question. Thanks!

[Kushiel]

When we remember how much your catcher can help your pitching staff this is who I think is the best bargain.

[Galeg]

Originally Posted by WBTyler939

Any response about filtering by abilities? I, and several others, have asked about this numerous times and no one at OOTP will even give us a response. Please stop ignoring this question. Thanks!

You can do this if you have the cards. Roster > Player List > All players in Org from drop down menu.

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by WBTyler939

Any response about filtering by abilities? I, and several others, have asked about this numerous times and no one at OOTP will even give us a response. Please stop ignoring this question. Thanks!

We'll probably get there eventually, but no promises when we'll be able to get to have it. I know I want it so I'll keep pushing

[Dogberry99]

Originally Posted by Galeg

You can do this if you have the cards. Roster > Player List > All players in Org from drop down menu.

He meant in the Auction House. For those of us trying to target specific abilities on a tight budget, this would be an indispensable asset