Short Season A expansion assistance

ArcAngel · 08-22-2018, 08:37 AM

So after creating a 2018 quickstart and looking over it, I noticed that there are 8 teams that don't have SSA affiliates (and apparently haven't for some time. In my world, that is going to change. I'm just not sure what the best option is.

Option A - Expand the existing Northwest and NY-P leagues by two teams each (making the NW league a 5-5 arrangement, and the NY-P a 5-6-5), and creating a new 4-team league with 1 division.

Option B - Create a new 8-team league with two 4-team divisions.

I have attached a table of what option A might look like, and have placed historical affiliations as placeholders for the time being.

I don't have much experience with minor league expansion, and hoping that someone who has gone through the process can discuss the pros and cons of my above options.

Le Grande Orange · 08-22-2018, 10:17 AM

In real life there isn't a 1:1 ratio of Short-A affiliates to major league clubs. There are 30 major league clubs but only 22 teams in Short-A. (There are 18 teams in Rookie Advanced, and, for the 2018 season, 36 teams total between the two Rookie leagues.)

(Some years back there was a proposal to increase Short-A to 30 teams by advancing the Pioneer League to the Short-A classification, making for three leagues in total: New York-Penn with 14 teams, Northwest with 8 teams, and Pioneer with 8 teams. The Appalachian League would either have been folded, or operated as an extra Rookie-class co-op affiliate league. In the end the proposal wasn't adopted.)

If you want to expand your minors, keep in mind whether there are existing real-world schedules that can be used for them. It there aren't, OOTP will have to generate them, and the results will look out of place compared to your other minors if they are using real-world examples. It might be better in this regard to add a new 8-team league, as it could use real Northwest or Pioneer League schedules as its base, since both of those leagues have the same size and division set-up.

ArcAngel · 08-22-2018, 10:54 AM

Yea, I realize IRL that not every MLB team has a SSA affiliate. I hate that. I feel that every MLB team should have a minor affiliate for each league, but that's just me.

Scheduling is in the back of my mind, which is why I asked if the first option using 5-6-5 and 5-5 division formats were viable options.

I haven't as of yet looked through the tons of schedules to see which one might fit my needs the best.

Of course, if I choose to go the new league route, I would first have to find (or create) a logo for the league, and decide on which cities would fit best, geographically.

Soooo much to think about!

Curve Ball Dave · 08-22-2018, 12:01 PM

I got around it by making the Rookie leagues other than Arizona and Florida SSA leagues.

ArcAngel · 08-22-2018, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

I got around it by making the Rookie leagues other than Arizona and Florida SSA leagues.

I briefly thought about a Grapefruit league, then decided against it because there are so many other teams in Florida already.

Also considered the defunct Western Carolinas and Northern leagues.

I do tend to put a lot of thought into how affiliations fit into my sim world, and this expansion is no exception.

Le Grande Orange · 08-22-2018, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcAngel

Scheduling is in the back of my mind, which is why I asked if the first option using 5-6-5 and 5-5 division formats were viable options.

The largest a Short-A league has gotten is 14 teams, so anything with 16 teams won't have a real-world schedule. You could fake one by using two 8-team divisions, with regular season play taking place only within each division, thus allowing a schedule for an 9-team league to be duplicated.

The only 5-5 short season league that comes to mind is the Appalachian, but it plays 68 games, not the 76 used by Short-A.

You might be able to use a real-world independent league or summer college league schedule as a base, as some of those might have schedule lengths and alignments that fit.

BBGiovanni · 08-22-2018, 11:30 PM

It bugs me too, but my solution might not be one you like. I move Appy League and Pioneer League teams to fill in the NYPL/NWL. For teams that have an A(SS) team as well as an Appy/Pioneer team I usually turn scouting to 100% and move any decent prospects to other affiliates. Then I delete the leftover Appy/PIO teams. So when the dust settles each team has 6 affilliates, one at each level.

I also make the DSL/Venez leagues independent and merge the AZL/GCL duplicate teams.

eck.nicholas · 08-23-2018, 12:38 AM

I like the idea of expanding the leagues already there. Small fix is not doing the Salem Angels in the NWL. Salem already has the Volcanoes. Southern Oregon (Medford) has a history of teams playing in the NWL already, maybe put a team there.

ArcAngel · 08-23-2018, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eck.nicholas

I like the idea of expanding the leagues already there. Small fix is not doing the Salem Angels in the NWL. Salem already has the Volcanoes. Southern Oregon (Medford) has a history of teams playing in the NWL already, maybe put a team there.

Medford Dodgers off the top of my head. Good point on the Angels, I didn't realize that when making the sheet.

ArcAngel · 08-23-2018, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBGiovanni

It bugs me too, but my solution might not be one you like. I move Appy League and Pioneer League teams to fill in the NYPL/NWL. For teams that have an A(SS) team as well as an Appy/Pioneer team I usually turn scouting to 100% and move any decent prospects to other affiliates. Then I delete the leftover Appy/PIO teams. So when the dust settles each team has 6 affilliates, one at each level.

I also make the DSL/Venez leagues independent and merge the AZL/GCL duplicate teams.

I'm trying to keep everything else as intact as possible though. Don't like the idea of disbanding teams and moving players, you're right about that.

eck.nicholas · 08-23-2018, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcAngel

Medford Dodgers off the top of my head. Good point on the Angels, I didn't realize that when making the sheet.

It's all good. The NWL is my home league to watch and it's always bothers me that the divisions haven't been correct in game for a few years.

Another great city in Oregon you could contemplate a team is Bend. They have a good history as well in the summer college ball ranks.

ArcAngel · 08-24-2018, 07:32 AM

After some thinking about this, and especially after looking at the attached map of MiLB team locations, I have decided to reactivate two defunct leagues from the past - North Dakota League and South Dakota League.

Both will be 1 division 4 team leagues.

Cities will be Fargo, Bismarck, Grand Forks, and Minot in North Dakota, while Aberdeen, Huron, Sioux Falls, and Redfield will represent South Dakota.

The only team names solidified at this point are the Redfield Reds, and Sioux Falls Packers.

08-22-2018, 08:37 AM	#1
ArcAngel All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Bremen OH USA Posts: 1,019	Short Season A expansion assistance So after creating a 2018 quickstart and looking over it, I noticed that there are 8 teams that don't have SSA affiliates (and apparently haven't for some time. In my world, that is going to change. I'm just not sure what the best option is. Option A - Expand the existing Northwest and NY-P leagues by two teams each (making the NW league a 5-5 arrangement, and the NY-P a 5-6-5), and creating a new 4-team league with 1 division. Option B - Create a new 8-team league with two 4-team divisions. I have attached a table of what option A might look like, and have placed historical affiliations as placeholders for the time being. I don't have much experience with minor league expansion, and hoping that someone who has gone through the process can discuss the pros and cons of my above options. Attached Images __________________ My OOTP Creations thread My OOTP Creations on Photobucket

08-22-2018, 10:54 AM	#3
ArcAngel All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Bremen OH USA Posts: 1,019	Yea, I realize IRL that not every MLB team has a SSA affiliate. I hate that. I feel that every MLB team should have a minor affiliate for each league, but that's just me. Scheduling is in the back of my mind, which is why I asked if the first option using 5-6-5 and 5-5 division formats were viable options. I haven't as of yet looked through the tons of schedules to see which one might fit my needs the best. Of course, if I choose to go the new league route, I would first have to find (or create) a logo for the league, and decide on which cities would fit best, geographically. Soooo much to think about! __________________ My OOTP Creations thread My OOTP Creations on Photobucket

08-22-2018, 12:01 PM	#4
Curve Ball Dave Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,336	I got around it by making the Rookie leagues other than Arizona and Florida SSA leagues. __________________ "Hitting is timing. Pitching is upsetting timing"-Warren Spahn.

08-22-2018, 11:30 PM	#7
BBGiovanni All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Republic of California Posts: 1,874	It bugs me too, but my solution might not be one you like. I move Appy League and Pioneer League teams to fill in the NYPL/NWL. For teams that have an A(SS) team as well as an Appy/Pioneer team I usually turn scouting to 100% and move any decent prospects to other affiliates. Then I delete the leftover Appy/PIO teams. So when the dust settles each team has 6 affilliates, one at each level. I also make the DSL/Venez leagues independent and merge the AZL/GCL duplicate teams. __________________ Let's Go (San Jose) Giants, Let's Go Mets! Current Project: WBAT/AABBA: Organized Base Ball And the "New Normal" World Baseball Aid Tournament 2023 trophy round underway! Last edited by BBGiovanni; 08-22-2018 at 11:31 PM.

08-23-2018, 12:38 AM	#8
eck.nicholas Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 484	I like the idea of expanding the leagues already there. Small fix is not doing the Salem Angels in the NWL. Salem already has the Volcanoes. Southern Oregon (Medford) has a history of teams playing in the NWL already, maybe put a team there. __________________ Chop On: Atlanta Braves

08-22-2018, 10:17 AM	#2
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	In real life there isn't a 1:1 ratio of Short-A affiliates to major league clubs. There are 30 major league clubs but only 22 teams in Short-A. (There are 18 teams in Rookie Advanced, and, for the 2018 season, 36 teams total between the two Rookie leagues.) (Some years back there was a proposal to increase Short-A to 30 teams by advancing the Pioneer League to the Short-A classification, making for three leagues in total: New York-Penn with 14 teams, Northwest with 8 teams, and Pioneer with 8 teams. The Appalachian League would either have been folded, or operated as an extra Rookie-class co-op affiliate league. In the end the proposal wasn't adopted.) If you want to expand your minors, keep in mind whether there are existing real-world schedules that can be used for them. It there aren't, OOTP will have to generate them, and the results will look out of place compared to your other minors if they are using real-world examples. It might be better in this regard to add a new 8-team league, as it could use real Northwest or Pioneer League schedules as its base, since both of those leagues have the same size and division set-up.

08-24-2018, 07:32 AM	#12
ArcAngel All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Bremen OH USA Posts: 1,019	After some thinking about this, and especially after looking at the attached map of MiLB team locations, I have decided to reactivate two defunct leagues from the past - North Dakota League and South Dakota League. Both will be 1 division 4 team leagues. Cities will be Fargo, Bismarck, Grand Forks, and Minot in North Dakota, while Aberdeen, Huron, Sioux Falls, and Redfield will represent South Dakota. The only team names solidified at this point are the Redfield Reds, and Sioux Falls Packers. Attached Images __________________ My OOTP Creations thread My OOTP Creations on Photobucket