Question about minimum salary years and arbitration

rudel.dietrich · 06-02-2018, 09:50 PM

In my decade + of OOTP I cannot believe this has not come up before.

Here is the scenario. I am typing this on my iPad and thus I do not have screen shots. This is also from OOTP 18.
If screen shots are needed then I can get them.

My world is MLB teams with fake players that began in 2000. I am now in 2028.
I use all of the rules and saleries (with inflation turned on) that would would find in the real MLB.

The situation is that a 26 year old RP was drafted by the Chicago Cubs in their 2019 draft with their 10th round pick (297th overall pick)
He NEVER played in the MLB nor was he ever picked up in the rule 5 draft by any other team.
Once he hit age 26 the AI took a look at him and despite pitching above average in AAA for 3.5 years outright released him on 5/26/2025.
No team signed him for the remainder of 2026.

In the 2026/2027 offseason I was looking over players and he caught my eye because I was curious about how Cuban born players were doing in my league and I had it filtered by all Cuban players and he was in the FA pile.
He was an average pitcher but one with a 101+ MPH fastball so I shortlisted him since my team while having won the WS was getting old and expensive and I knew the end was coming.
Within the first two days of free agency I got e-mails that he was being offered contracts.
The league minimum in my world rises with inflation and I believe was $650,000 by 2026.
He got minimum offers and I decided I wanted him and offered $700,000 for two years.
A small bidding war ensued and I decided to keep at him as long as it stayed under 1,000,000 per year.
I ended up signing him for $866,935 for two years.

The season began and my team was still a contender with my bullpen still being strong so towards the end of spring training I sent him once again down to AAA.
I felt bad but after so many years of toiling in minor league ball he was assured just over $1.73 million in guaranteed money.
September comes along and I have a large lead in my divison so I call him up as part of my 40 man roster and he pitches 8.1 innings.

The next season which is to be his final under his current contract I once again send him down to AAA but this time right before the season begins since my old and expensive team is beginning to crack apart.
During the season I call him up a few times and send him back down exhausting his option years but it is necessary since I have the season from hell injury wise and some of my players are aging during the season and becoming unplayable.
When September comes I am in a race for the playoffs but my team pulls together and we win another division title by a semi comfortable margin.
The player in question is called up and along with his earlier emergency call ups has pitched exactly 10.0 IP.
I lose in the NLDS round in game 5 and I realize this is the end of the line with this current group and in the off season I will blow it up and get what I can for my veterans and shed both age and salary.

I then think to myself that my Cuban reclamation project despite being 28 has actually gotten better potential wise in the two years I have had him under contract. I play with scouting off so what I see is 100% accurate.
Not only has be improved in all three main skills his endurance is now in the low 60s and thus enough to pitch out of the bullpen or even start some games while I rebuild.
So I decided to go in and offer him a new contract.
And finally we come across the reason for this thread.

I don't have to offer him a contract. The game tells me that he is arbitration eligible and will be FA eligible in an estimated four years.

Is this correct? I have never been in this situation before.
I guess I just consume too much NBA in my life now. But my thinking was that once a player was released by the team that drafted them and then signed by another team they skipped their six years of league min and arbitration altogether and simply worked from the contracts they are offered.

If OOTP has this correct then I never knew this.
In any event this works out for me since he was awarded only $945,115 through arbitration.
I was prepared to try and keep him on my team for anything less than 3 million.

And my rebuilding efforts cut deep and my team is awful. And thanks to injury and poor talent he is now my #3 starter and will probably have a place in my bullpen for years to come until my farm system bears fruit.
So I will probably get his 'prime' years for fairly cheap and see what he is willing to sign for once he finally hits true FA for the first time in his early 30s.

This may not be as weird as I think it is. Its just that I have never seen it before in OOTP or real baseball.
I know some Rule 5 success stories but this player was never even picked up during the Rule 5 draft.
It was not until the offseason after his release that the AI even seemed to notice him.

bwburke94 · 06-03-2018, 10:05 AM

Released/signed players are eligible for arbitration, IIRC.

WahooSam · 06-03-2018, 11:16 AM

I believe this is correct too. Though not entirely the same situation, something similar happened to David Ortiz in 2003. His first contract with the Red Sox after 4 years with the Twins was not guaranteed, presumably because that's what he could negotiate. After breaking out during the first year with the Red Sox, he was only eligible for arbitration because he had less than 6 years of service time (according to the David Ortiz wiki page).

NoOne · 06-03-2018, 12:42 PM

there are exceptions to the rule too. in the past, Cespedes in ootp would fall under this when his first 4yr contract from oakland ran out. in real life, he somehow avoided the situation, so it is at least possible. maybe not in ootp, though.

this talks about details, blah blah blah:

http://thesportsesquires.com/the-gen...dess-contract/

in ootp it can be a good thing. if it's cheaper, it's obviously a good thing. plus, it gives X years of time as far as timing potential extension or replacement etc.

rudel.dietrich · 06-03-2018, 04:36 PM

Thank you everyone.

I had just never seen this before. I usually sim my leagues at a high level so its possible I just missed this. But its also pretty rare to have a player who is 'bad' enough to be a career minor league player and then miss being a Rule 5 draft pick and then be released and signed and actually be 'good' enough for human eyes to notice them.

bwburke94 · 06-03-2018, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoOne

there are exceptions to the rule too. in the past, Cespedes in ootp would fall under this when his first 4yr contract from oakland ran out. in real life, he somehow avoided the situation, so it is at least possible. maybe not in ootp, though.

That was a special clause in Cespedes' contract, which can't be replicated in OOTP. Masahiro Tanaka had the same thing.

06-02-2018, 09:50 PM	#1
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608	Question about minimum salary years and arbitration In my decade + of OOTP I cannot believe this has not come up before. Here is the scenario. I am typing this on my iPad and thus I do not have screen shots. This is also from OOTP 18. If screen shots are needed then I can get them. My world is MLB teams with fake players that began in 2000. I am now in 2028. I use all of the rules and saleries (with inflation turned on) that would would find in the real MLB. The situation is that a 26 year old RP was drafted by the Chicago Cubs in their 2019 draft with their 10th round pick (297th overall pick) He NEVER played in the MLB nor was he ever picked up in the rule 5 draft by any other team. Once he hit age 26 the AI took a look at him and despite pitching above average in AAA for 3.5 years outright released him on 5/26/2025. No team signed him for the remainder of 2026. In the 2026/2027 offseason I was looking over players and he caught my eye because I was curious about how Cuban born players were doing in my league and I had it filtered by all Cuban players and he was in the FA pile. He was an average pitcher but one with a 101+ MPH fastball so I shortlisted him since my team while having won the WS was getting old and expensive and I knew the end was coming. Within the first two days of free agency I got e-mails that he was being offered contracts. The league minimum in my world rises with inflation and I believe was $650,000 by 2026. He got minimum offers and I decided I wanted him and offered $700,000 for two years. A small bidding war ensued and I decided to keep at him as long as it stayed under 1,000,000 per year. I ended up signing him for $866,935 for two years. The season began and my team was still a contender with my bullpen still being strong so towards the end of spring training I sent him once again down to AAA. I felt bad but after so many years of toiling in minor league ball he was assured just over $1.73 million in guaranteed money. September comes along and I have a large lead in my divison so I call him up as part of my 40 man roster and he pitches 8.1 innings. The next season which is to be his final under his current contract I once again send him down to AAA but this time right before the season begins since my old and expensive team is beginning to crack apart. During the season I call him up a few times and send him back down exhausting his option years but it is necessary since I have the season from hell injury wise and some of my players are aging during the season and becoming unplayable. When September comes I am in a race for the playoffs but my team pulls together and we win another division title by a semi comfortable margin. The player in question is called up and along with his earlier emergency call ups has pitched exactly 10.0 IP. I lose in the NLDS round in game 5 and I realize this is the end of the line with this current group and in the off season I will blow it up and get what I can for my veterans and shed both age and salary. I then think to myself that my Cuban reclamation project despite being 28 has actually gotten better potential wise in the two years I have had him under contract. I play with scouting off so what I see is 100% accurate. Not only has be improved in all three main skills his endurance is now in the low 60s and thus enough to pitch out of the bullpen or even start some games while I rebuild. So I decided to go in and offer him a new contract. And finally we come across the reason for this thread. I don't have to offer him a contract. The game tells me that he is arbitration eligible and will be FA eligible in an estimated four years. Is this correct? I have never been in this situation before. I guess I just consume too much NBA in my life now. But my thinking was that once a player was released by the team that drafted them and then signed by another team they skipped their six years of league min and arbitration altogether and simply worked from the contracts they are offered. If OOTP has this correct then I never knew this. In any event this works out for me since he was awarded only $945,115 through arbitration. I was prepared to try and keep him on my team for anything less than 3 million. And my rebuilding efforts cut deep and my team is awful. And thanks to injury and poor talent he is now my #3 starter and will probably have a place in my bullpen for years to come until my farm system bears fruit. So I will probably get his 'prime' years for fairly cheap and see what he is willing to sign for once he finally hits true FA for the first time in his early 30s. This may not be as weird as I think it is. Its just that I have never seen it before in OOTP or real baseball. I know some Rule 5 success stories but this player was never even picked up during the Rule 5 draft. It was not until the offseason after his release that the AI even seemed to notice him. Last edited by rudel.dietrich; 06-02-2018 at 10:04 PM.

06-03-2018, 12:42 PM	#4
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	there are exceptions to the rule too. in the past, Cespedes in ootp would fall under this when his first 4yr contract from oakland ran out. in real life, he somehow avoided the situation, so it is at least possible. maybe not in ootp, though. this talks about details, blah blah blah: http://thesportsesquires.com/the-gen...dess-contract/ in ootp it can be a good thing. if it's cheaper, it's obviously a good thing. plus, it gives X years of time as far as timing potential extension or replacement etc. Last edited by NoOne; 06-03-2018 at 12:44 PM.

06-03-2018, 10:05 AM	#2
bwburke94 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Belchertown, MA, USA Posts: 4,519	Released/signed players are eligible for arbitration, IIRC.

06-03-2018, 11:16 AM	#3
WahooSam Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 7	I believe this is correct too. Though not entirely the same situation, something similar happened to David Ortiz in 2003. His first contract with the Red Sox after 4 years with the Twins was not guaranteed, presumably because that's what he could negotiate. After breaking out during the first year with the Red Sox, he was only eligible for arbitration because he had less than 6 years of service time (according to the David Ortiz wiki page).

06-03-2018, 04:36 PM	#5
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608	Thank you everyone. I had just never seen this before. I usually sim my leagues at a high level so its possible I just missed this. But its also pretty rare to have a player who is 'bad' enough to be a career minor league player and then miss being a Rule 5 draft pick and then be released and signed and actually be 'good' enough for human eyes to notice them.