Is it possible to win with a small payroll?

Falcon52 · 03-14-2003, 07:25 PM

So far, I'm leaning towards no.

I've played about 10 seasons now, and the seasons where I tried to limit my budget, I always did terrible, despite having what should have been a dominant pitching staff. The only seasons I came close to contending were the ones where I basically broke the bank and either signed, or traded for high priced "hired guns". It seems like it's impossible to win unless you basically fill all your positions with all star calibre talent.

Cole · 03-14-2003, 07:29 PM

I think it is definitely possible ....

However, the team you win with that has a small payroll in that current year, may end up having a huge payroll in a few years...

What I mean is, the best way to win with a small payroll, would be to have a bunch of solid minor league system, have a lot of guys come up who are big star prospects, combined with others who have been in the show for a few years, but are still on their 300,000 dollar contracts, then have a few seasoned veterans with somewhat large contracts to round out the group ..

While you could win then, and have a small payroll ... once you have to sign all the 300,000 guys to long term deals, they could ask for quite a bit.

old timer · 03-14-2003, 07:34 PM

It depends on what you consider a small budget. I limited my payroll to approximately $70 million (this was always near the bottom compared to other teams and often I had smaller) and during that span my team finished:

6,2,2,2,2,2,1,4,1,3,1,1,2,1

As you can see I had five consecutive (and very frustrating) 2nd place finishes and then afterwards managed to make it to 5 world series, winning four of them.

Dargone · 03-14-2003, 07:38 PM

I believe it is.

matskralc · 03-14-2003, 07:40 PM

What do you limit your payroll to? I usually see that I need to spend about $60 million to have a realistic shot at competing for a playoff spot. I just won the World Series with a payroll of $69 million ($20 million of which was A-Rod). I went to the World Series two season ago, and my payroll that year was $57 million. The year before that I got into the playoffs via the wild card with a payroll of $45 million. And considering I play as Pittsburgh, I'm not really able to break the bank and throw a $100 million team out on the field. As of right now, my payroll the offseason after I just won the WS is sitting at about $71 million, thanks to a handful of my superprospects finally hitting arbitration, and I'm projected to lose $2 million if I stay at that. My payroll had been up to $78 million, but I dealt some high-priced relievers to alleviate that.

Falcon52 · 03-14-2003, 07:46 PM

Well i placed a salary cap on my league of 90 million. Last season, for example, my team payroll got to 95 million by the end of the year (i traded for some high priced guys), but all I could manage was wildcard.

So this season, I didn't bother resigning many guys, and have a payroll at around 65 million, which to me isn't too bad. But currently I'm in last place in the AL, and second last in the entire major leagues. My team cannot hit to save its life, despite the fact that my lineup is as follows:

Pos-hits-homers-walks
C-6-6-6
1B-7-9-7
2B-4-2-2 (weak position but a B defensively)
3B-6-4-6
SS-5-3-4
LF-5-10-2
CF-6-3-6
RF-6-1-2
DH-4-10-2

Also, my pitching staff is about middle of the pack, or at best creeps into about 9th or 10th best in the majors despite having the following ratings:

Runs-Hits-BB-K
10-10-7-9
7-6-5-8
9-7-8-11
5-5-8-5
6-7-6-8

I've increased the league totals for offense, and it seems every team EXCEPT mine has improved. My team, with the above ratings, is batting .229! Most of the teams are batting in the .263-.268 range, with the top teams batting higher than .270. And other teams have superior ERA's despite having inferior pitching ratings.

I just don't get it.

edit: my hitting coach is rated "Legendary", my pitching coach is "Outstanding", and my scouts, and minor league coaches range from "Legendary" to "Outstanding". So it's not a case of talent being underutilized. I just don't understand why my team can't hit. a 5 or 6 rating in hitting shouldn't translate to a .228 average.

Wolfpack · 03-14-2003, 08:13 PM

I haven't noticed hitting and pitching coaches making any difference at all. I went through a season with a .262 team average, was out of money with both my pitching and hitting coaches (Both rated legendary) contracts up, so I didn't even sign replacements. Next year my team hit .268 and I got to the world series. When I resigned managers two years later, my avg went down again. I never pay out for good managers anymore, just get the cheapest ones I can find for the hitting and pitching coaches.

PoisonMaddux · 03-14-2003, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Is it possible to win with a small payroll?

Definately...my season is a great example so far

MONTREAL EXPOS have the 25th highest payroll in my league, $50,000,000 and the lowest in the NL East.

Its June and they are currently leading the division by 5 games, 37 - 18 , the best record in the majors. They are listed #1 in the power rankings!

I'm the Braves, spending $72,000,000 and I can't catch them! I'm fighting Philly for the Wild Card, but the year is still young.

The Mets are 22-32 spending $106,000,000

Ragin Cajun · 03-14-2003, 10:35 PM

I'm a little worried about the salary cap for my online league as the arbitration will go over the cap without warning or choice to allow this.

Also, I'm finding in my 14th season that players are asking for A LOT more money for contracts in OOTP5 than they are/did in 4.

This will definitely make it next to impossible for small market teams to compete in my opinion.

William4192 · 03-15-2003, 07:02 PM

Can anyone (maybe Steve) comment on how or how much Coaches effect the major league team (hiting and pitching coaches)?

SpaceNinja · 03-15-2003, 09:29 PM

Absolutely you can, you just need to use a lot of young players, hire bargain role players where you can, and pray that none of your starters get injured since you can't afford to have any depth. And pray to a statue of Billy Beane between seasons, that helps too.

My Blue Jays have beat out the Yankees and Red Sox, by far the two most expensive teams in baseball, two years in a row now with a bargain basement payroll of $38 000 000. Teams based on the real life strategies of the A's, Angels or Twinkies can succeed in OOTP just as easily in real life, you just have to be adaptive and accept that the Jason Giambis of the world will eventually become expensive and leave.

03-14-2003, 07:38 PM	#4
Dargone Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Interwebs Posts: 2,862	I believe it is. __________________ I was never one to patiently pick up broken fragments and glue them together again and tell myself that the mended whole was as good as new. What is broken is broken -- and I'd rather remember it as it was at its best than mend it and see the broken places as long as I lived.-Margaret Mitchell

03-14-2003, 07:40 PM	#5
matskralc Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,076	Re: Is it possible to win with a small payroll? What do you limit your payroll to? I usually see that I need to spend about $60 million to have a realistic shot at competing for a playoff spot. I just won the World Series with a payroll of $69 million ($20 million of which was A-Rod). I went to the World Series two season ago, and my payroll that year was $57 million. The year before that I got into the playoffs via the wild card with a payroll of $45 million. And considering I play as Pittsburgh, I'm not really able to break the bank and throw a $100 million team out on the field. As of right now, my payroll the offseason after I just won the WS is sitting at about $71 million, thanks to a handful of my superprospects finally hitting arbitration, and I'm projected to lose $2 million if I stay at that. My payroll had been up to $78 million, but I dealt some high-priced relievers to alleviate that.

03-14-2003, 07:46 PM	#6
Falcon52 All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 615	Well i placed a salary cap on my league of 90 million. Last season, for example, my team payroll got to 95 million by the end of the year (i traded for some high priced guys), but all I could manage was wildcard. So this season, I didn't bother resigning many guys, and have a payroll at around 65 million, which to me isn't too bad. But currently I'm in last place in the AL, and second last in the entire major leagues. My team cannot hit to save its life, despite the fact that my lineup is as follows: Pos-hits-homers-walks C-6-6-6 1B-7-9-7 2B-4-2-2 (weak position but a B defensively) 3B-6-4-6 SS-5-3-4 LF-5-10-2 CF-6-3-6 RF-6-1-2 DH-4-10-2 Also, my pitching staff is about middle of the pack, or at best creeps into about 9th or 10th best in the majors despite having the following ratings: Runs-Hits-BB-K 10-10-7-9 7-6-5-8 9-7-8-11 5-5-8-5 6-7-6-8 I've increased the league totals for offense, and it seems every team EXCEPT mine has improved. My team, with the above ratings, is batting .229! Most of the teams are batting in the .263-.268 range, with the top teams batting higher than .270. And other teams have superior ERA's despite having inferior pitching ratings. I just don't get it. edit: my hitting coach is rated "Legendary", my pitching coach is "Outstanding", and my scouts, and minor league coaches range from "Legendary" to "Outstanding". So it's not a case of talent being underutilized. I just don't understand why my team can't hit. a 5 or 6 rating in hitting shouldn't translate to a .228 average. Last edited by Falcon52; 03-14-2003 at 07:52 PM.

03-14-2003, 10:35 PM	#9
Ragin Cajun All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Atascosita, TX Posts: 1,173	I'm a little worried about the salary cap for my online league as the arbitration will go over the cap without warning or choice to allow this. Also, I'm finding in my 14th season that players are asking for A LOT more money for contracts in OOTP5 than they are/did in 4. This will definitely make it next to impossible for small market teams to compete in my opinion. __________________ Former NBSL Commissioner: 16 years Former Online League Owner; six time champion

03-15-2003, 07:02 PM	#10
William4192 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 1,625	Can anyone (maybe Steve) comment on how or how much Coaches effect the major league team (hiting and pitching coaches)? __________________ What is this about Rhode Island? It is neither Road or Island. Come check out the PBA. http://www.pioneerbaseballassociation.com Or email at pbacommish@pioneerbaseballassociation.com

03-14-2003, 07:25 PM	#1
Falcon52 All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 615	Is it possible to win with a small payroll? So far, I'm leaning towards no. I've played about 10 seasons now, and the seasons where I tried to limit my budget, I always did terrible, despite having what should have been a dominant pitching staff. The only seasons I came close to contending were the ones where I basically broke the bank and either signed, or traded for high priced "hired guns". It seems like it's impossible to win unless you basically fill all your positions with all star calibre talent.

03-14-2003, 07:29 PM	#2
Cole Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Fredericton, New Brunswick Posts: 2,685	I think it is definitely possible .... However, the team you win with that has a small payroll in that current year, may end up having a huge payroll in a few years... What I mean is, the best way to win with a small payroll, would be to have a bunch of solid minor league system, have a lot of guys come up who are big star prospects, combined with others who have been in the show for a few years, but are still on their 300,000 dollar contracts, then have a few seasoned veterans with somewhat large contracts to round out the group .. While you could win then, and have a small payroll ... once you have to sign all the 300,000 guys to long term deals, they could ask for quite a bit.

03-14-2003, 07:34 PM	#3
old timer Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,280	It depends on what you consider a small budget. I limited my payroll to approximately $70 million (this was always near the bottom compared to other teams and often I had smaller) and during that span my team finished: 6,2,2,2,2,2,1,4,1,3,1,1,2,1 As you can see I had five consecutive (and very frustrating) 2nd place finishes and then afterwards managed to make it to 5 world series, winning four of them.

03-14-2003, 08:13 PM	#7
Wolfpack Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Tallahassee Posts: 13	I haven't noticed hitting and pitching coaches making any difference at all. I went through a season with a .262 team average, was out of money with both my pitching and hitting coaches (Both rated legendary) contracts up, so I didn't even sign replacements. Next year my team hit .268 and I got to the world series. When I resigned managers two years later, my avg went down again. I never pay out for good managers anymore, just get the cheapest ones I can find for the hitting and pitching coaches.

03-15-2003, 09:29 PM	#11
SpaceNinja Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 92	Absolutely you can, you just need to use a lot of young players, hire bargain role players where you can, and pray that none of your starters get injured since you can't afford to have any depth. And pray to a statue of Billy Beane between seasons, that helps too. My Blue Jays have beat out the Yankees and Red Sox, by far the two most expensive teams in baseball, two years in a row now with a bargain basement payroll of $38 000 000. Teams based on the real life strategies of the A's, Angels or Twinkies can succeed in OOTP just as easily in real life, you just have to be adaptive and accept that the Jason Giambis of the world will eventually become expensive and leave.