NFL thoughts - week 3

[Cobra Mgr]

Can't remember a season when there were only 2 unbeatens after 3 weeks. And one of those is Atlanta, who should be 1-2. Lots of inconsistent play so far. Most offenses have been sporadic through the first month. But one has to admit this has been a September unprecedented in the NFL thanks to outside influences. Hurricanes and other things that we shall not mention have been a distraction. And OL struggles are spreading like a virus. It will be interesting to see if the end of the year brings better play & separation. Or if parity is stronger than ever.........


.......I stated Atl should have 2 losses. Chicago dropped 2 game winning TD's at the finish of the opener. Last week @ Detroit, the Lions came up a half yard short. I like replay. I think it should be in the game. But we have to remember why it is in there: To get the call right.

The refs didn't make a mistake in their ruling. Here is where I have a problem. While they were allowed to see if Tate was down by contact, they weren't allowed to "see" the interference from the DB. So they could correct the spot, they couldn't correct the call. Mighty unfair for the Lions to lose the score & the time by rule and the Falcons not have to defend one last play even when the video was clear.

I think they should keep the rules about when you are allowed to use replay. However, when the play they are looking at shows a clear violation, the zebras should be allowed to throw a flag afterward. Colleges already allow a player to be ejected for targeting if a replay shows it, even if a flag wasn't tossed or a review wasn't requested. Again, let's remember why replay is there - To get it right.........


.......What happened to Billy "White Shoes" Johnson?.......


......Allow me to rant about the Panthers.....Carolina's offensive struggles are due to bad choices. I'll list them in ascending order according to stupidity.

4. Conservative Ron Rivera. Defensive guys as head coaches irritate me. Not all are this way, but too many don't want to win. They want to win, their way. They love pounding the ball & FG's too much. Case in point, last week the worst defense in the league comes to town. Opening week, they made Sam Bradford look like Tom Brady. Then the next week, they made Tom Brady look like Tom Brady. So why were they trying to grind it & wear the Saints out? I'm all for a personal philosophy for winning football games, but adaptability has got to be a component. And did you hear why they punted from the NO35 down 18 in the 4th w/7:00 to go. Because Rivera (I'm not making this up) was concerned about giving the Saints a short field if they missed the conversion or the FG. ?????????

3. Signing Matt Kalil. From this point on this forum, I will be referring to Matt as "Turnstile". The guy offers as much protection as the French military. After his miserable performance in Minnesota, why on earth did they think he could shore up the line & protect Cam's blindside?

2. Keeping Mike Shula as offensive coordinator. I shuddered when the Panthers promoted him to replace Rob Chudzinski back in 2013. I was willing to hope he had grown since his terrible stay in Tampa. Lo & behold!, a Shula offense still gives off the appearance of a unit playing in 3 feet of mud. People gave him waaaayyy too much credit in back in 2015. I still wanted him fired. Nothing has changed my mind since. I constantly remind people Cam Newton threw for over 400 yds his 1st 2 games as a pro. Yet, he continues to have coaches who try to change him into Alex Smith. They've taken a ferrari & tried to turn it into a pickup truck.

1. Cam Newton had his surgery in March. Let's let that soak for a minute.....Season ended January 1st. Why in the world did they wait 2 frikkin' months to operate?????? Cam has yet to have a full week of throwing the ball in practice. Are we @ all shocked the guy is rusty? Where he is at now is where he should have been in July. When training camp starts, not a quarter of the way into the season. I don't know what the reasoning was for the delay.........


End of rant......


........And don't get me started on the secondary. I thought this was supposed to be Bradberry's breakout year? Dude has been toasted more times than a box of Pop Tarts!......And why are they dumping so much salary into the front 7 in order to have RB's invading the secondary & Drew Brees in a clean jersey @ the end of the day?????

Okay, I promise. End of rant...........


........This had to be Sunday's best moment. Maybe the only thing better than making your dad tear up with pride is having your son make you tear up with pride........

[MorseMoose]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

3. Signing Matt Kalil.

Forgot about him. lol. He's bad.

[ThatSeventiesGuy]

Welp, at least the Colts won't go 0-16. Scary thing is, if a thing or two had broken their way in the Arizona game, they might be 2-1...but if it had gone the other way in the Cleveland game, they could just as easily be 0-3.

Brissett ain't a bad starter, and seems to be a guy you can make your backup with some confidence. If he can keep the team around .500 until Luck comes back, Indy could still make some noise in a weak division.

[Ragnar]

My turn to rant about the Cowboys. I don't think I can beat the OP and his criticism of the Panthers, but I can try.

Watch any Cowboys game and you can pick what offensive play they are going to run with 90% accuracy. My niece, who doesn't even like football can do it with probably 70% accuracy. Dak under center. we're going to run. In shotgun, pass. We even run play action out of shotgun, really? We'll go from a double TE set to 4 wide or empty backfield the next play. C'mon now! We're not the 2009 Saints or the 2013 Broncos.

Did anyone notice the offensive sets the Jags used to torch the Ravens in London? Two RB sets, some with some without a TE, mostly under center. They either gave it to Fournette, or play action out of that. The defense has no choice but to stack the box, and that gives the wideouts more space to work. I know it isn't pretty and it's simple, but it's effective given the right personnel. The '92 to '95 Cowboys didn't run a single play out of shotgun. And that was unheard of even for that time.

Our strength is in our O-line and running back. We do not have great WRs. T'Will and Brice Butler aren't going to light up the scoreboard every week. Give Dez some space to work out there instead of clogging it up with 2-3 other WRs and a gaggle of DBs.

[Cobra Mgr]

Never thought I'd hear a Cowboy fan complain his offense isn't run like the Jaguars.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Never thought I'd hear a Cowboy fan complain his offense isn't run like the Jaguars.

I know, but I'm just going by the formations. Our team is very similar to the early 90s Cowboys. The team that won 3 SBs and the Jags are running those formations, not the Cowboys. I want our WRs to have space so they can do this......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-Rc33CfDDg

Just go to the 1:50 mark. Blitzing or not, those guys still have to be in the box. This leaves a lot of space for the WRs to work.

[BaseballMan]

Fans have talked of the raiders offensive line quitting on Derek Carr because he didn't kneel. I don't think that's true. Other players stood in the NFL and players didn't quit.
No team can afford to just throw a game away. I can accept that they didn't deal with the distraction as well as the redskins. I can accept that the raiders didn't put forth a great effort. Mostly i can accept that the redskins just outplayed them and were the better team on that day. I just don't think the oline quit.

Josh Norman is one sore winner. Crabtree i could believe talked trash but Amari Cooper? What i didn't like is the fact that i never heard anything said in the media. But now Norman wants to boast in the the media. If you got something to say then say it before the game as well. Otherwise keep the trash talk on the field. especially when it was the defensive line that wasn't giving Carr time to throw the ball and not Norman's self proclaimed great coverage. Its just like Richard Sherman making one great play.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

Fans have talked of the raiders offensive line quitting on Derek Carr because he didn't kneel. I don't think that's true. Other players stood in the NFL and players didn't quit.
No team can afford to just throw a game away. I can accept that they didn't deal with the distraction as well as the redskins. I can accept that the raiders didn't put forth a great effort. Mostly i can accept that the redskins just outplayed them and were the better team on that day. I just don't think the oline quit.

At first I thought this was crap, but now I am not so sure. Most of the team took a knee, including the entire offensive line. Was anyone standing except for Carr and a few coaches? Maybe the team did take offense to him standing. For one of the best offensive lines to give up 4 sacks to the Redskins is interesting to say the least. The center snapped the ball at the wrong time on three separate occasions. Players dropping passes. Sure it could all be coincidence. But don't rule out foul play.

But this is the natural progression these protests were going to take. At some point it was going to be taken as an insult when players refused to take a knee. No way the Raiders play that poorly against the Redskins.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

At first I thought this was crap, but now I am not so sure. Most of the team took a knee, including the entire offensive line. Was anyone standing except for Carr and a few coaches? Maybe the team did take offense to him standing. For one of the best offensive lines to give up 4 sacks to the Redskins is interesting to say the least. The center snapped the ball at the wrong time on three separate occasions. Players dropping passes. Sure it could all be coincidence. But don't rule out foul play.

But this is the natural progression these protests were going to take. At some point it was going to be taken as an insult when players refused to take a knee. No way the Raiders play that poorly against the Redskins.

I don't buy it. I can see being distracted. The Raiders haven't been good at handling distractions like Carr's injury or remember their last Super Bowl Appearance? If they were throwing the game, Del Rio and Tice would have gone ballistic. Do you think they would have left them or Carr stay in the game? Think about it. As a coach or a player are you gonna risk getting your meal ticket qb getting injured. Has everyone forgot what happened last year when we know they were not quitting. 4 sacks but most of them came from Newhouse. He isnt very good at this point but he also hasn't played that long with that line. Also Derek Carr tends to get rid of the ball too early.
They just got their butts beat. Give the Redskins credit.The raiders were not focused on the game. Carr standing doesn't mean he is against his teammates. I doubt if Carr would sit for anything during the Anthem unless the United States banned the Bible.

[DamPenguin]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

But this is the natural progression these protests were going to take. At some point it was going to be taken as an insult when players refused to take a knee.

Ragnar, I truly appreciate how you pointed out, and provided reasoning as to why you feel the way you do, in your previous comment. I agree with most if not all of what you said. With that being said, what I have quoted is where I'm expressing my opinion...

Before I begin I just want it to be know that even though I am an ex-Marine, an Honorably Discharged and Disabled Veteran, I am in no way more important than anyone who expresses their opinions on this "mostly" knowledgeable forum...

It's a shame that these players have been put in a situation that because of their status, as "entertainment figures," they may feel that they have to chose a "side." I can only imagine how hard they have worked to earn a roster spot and beside the insane challenge to maintain it they have to deal with what is basically a political issue. Safe to say there is no "right" in politics. Even drunks agree to not discuss it. But personally I can say with the utmost pride that I'm glad that everyone can voice their opinion without fear or consequence from the government/nation we are citizens of. My opinion of who takes a knee during the anthem, who doesn't, etc. Is that of my free will. But I watch the games, baseball, football, soccer, hockey, etc., to see who wins. To see great athletes perform amazing feats. I don't watch to see who is a republican, a democrat, or otherwise...

I think in general people, athletes or not, are protesting because things aren't "right," because it isn't "perfect." I guess I would also join in that protest. But from my experience this world isn't "perfect." It's one thing to complain, it's another to act. Another to find and act on a solution to solve the "imperfections" we live with. Being a public figure, in the view of millions, and taking a knee shows you are not happy. So my next question is "what are you doing about it?" I like to think that most people want a "better" world. Why wouldn't most do something to improve the world we live in? I wish there was a simple answer.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

I don't buy it. I can see being distracted. The Raiders haven't been good at handling distractions like Carr's injury or remember their last Super Bowl Appearance? If they were throwing the game, Del Rio and Tice would have gone ballistic. Do you think they would have left them or Carr stay in the game? Think about it. As a coach or a player are you gonna risk getting your meal ticket qb getting injured. Has everyone forgot what happened last year when we know they were not quitting. 4 sacks but most of them came from Newhouse. He isnt very good at this point but he also hasn't played that long with that line. Also Derek Carr tends to get rid of the ball too early.
They just got their butts beat. Give the Redskins credit.The raiders were not focused on the game. Carr standing doesn't mean he is against his teammates. I doubt if Carr would sit for anything during the Anthem unless the United States banned the Bible.

I never said they told their coaching staff about it. But don't put it past them to send their QB a message for one game. Keep in mind I never said that this was what I believed 100%. I just wouldn't rule it out.

Let me put it a different way, and instead of giving you stats or hearsay, I'll paint a picture of what could have led to the O-line sending Carr a message.

I don't want to make this thread political because I don't want this thread moved. Reason is, there are interesting people to talk to that do not reside in Hell's septic tank that is OTD. Those guys there are cool too, it's just that many choose not to even bother going there. Unfortunately I have touch on the subject slightly in order to make my point.

This whole kneeling thing has taken on a life of its own. As far as players go, they all seemed to respect eachother's choice. That was until our President made his comment. That changed the game. In case you haven't noticed (sarcasm), he can be a polarizing figure. It's almost as if kneeling now was a protest against Trump instead of what it was originally intended for. Politics can make people do, say, and act very ugly.

Originally Posted by DamPenguin

Ragnar, I truly appreciate how you pointed out, and provided reasoning as to why you feel the way you do, in your previous comment. I agree with most if not all of what you said. With that being said, what I have quoted is where I'm expressing my opinion...

Before I begin I just want it to be know that even though I am an ex-Marine, an Honorably Discharged and Disabled Veteran, I am in no way more important than anyone who expresses their opinions on this "mostly" knowledgeable forum...

It's a shame that these players have been put in a situation that because of their status, as "entertainment figures," they may feel that they have to chose a "side." I can only imagine how hard they have worked to earn a roster spot and beside the insane challenge to maintain it they have to deal with what is basically a political issue. Safe to say there is no "right" in politics. Even drunks agree to not discuss it. But personally I can say with the utmost pride that I'm glad that everyone can voice their opinion without fear or consequence from the government/nation we are citizens of. My opinion of who takes a knee during the anthem, who doesn't, etc. Is that of my free will. But I watch the games, baseball, football, soccer, hockey, etc., to see who wins. To see great athletes perform amazing feats. I don't watch to see who is a republican, a democrat, or otherwise...

I think in general people, athletes or not, are protesting because things aren't "right," because it isn't "perfect." I guess I would also join in that protest. But from my experience this world isn't "perfect." It's one thing to complain, it's another to act. Another to find and act on a solution to solve the "imperfections" we live with. Being a public figure, in the view of millions, and taking a knee shows you are not happy. So my next question is "what are you doing about it?" I like to think that most people want a "better" world. Why wouldn't most do something to improve the world we live in? I wish there was a simple answer.

Ah, someone not from the "bowels" of hell, what a treat. Thank you for your service as that is something I'll admit I could not do willingly. I remember playing paintball and thinking to myself, what if these were real rounds? The thought terrified me. It's not like the movies. You don't just duck and shoot, get shot at or shot. The rounds are nicking off every part of your body even under cover. I remember thinking I'd have pieces of me laying across the battlefield if they were real rounds. And this was just paintballs travelling at 300 mph, nothing compared to the real thing.

I personally would not take a knee and protest the Anthem, but I hold no ill will towards those that do. I work with an Iraqi vet just about every day and he doesn't have a problem with it. He says he'll stand for you. Really cool dude. But I also respect those that take offense.

I'm happy about the way the Cowboys handled the situation. Yet some people are still not happy. Go figure. As far as doing something about it, what can a player do? This issue is something that gets better over time, and has been getting better over time. It's not something you can change overnight or with a speech. Respect is earned and over time things will sort themselves out.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

I never said they told their coaching staff about it. But don't put it past them to send their QB a message for one game. Keep in mind I never said that this was what I believed 100%. I just wouldn't rule it out.

Let me put it a different way, and instead of giving you stats or hearsay, I'll paint a picture of what could have led to the O-line sending Carr a message.

I don't want to make this thread political because I don't want this thread moved. Reason is, there are interesting people to talk to that do not reside in Hell's septic tank that is OTD. Those guys there are cool too, it's just that many choose not to even bother going there. Unfortunately I have touch on the subject slightly in order to make my point.

This whole kneeling thing has taken on a life of its own. As far as players go, they all seemed to respect eachother's choice. That was until our President made his comment. That changed the game. In case you haven't noticed (sarcasm), he can be a polarizing figure. It's almost as if kneeling now was a protest against Trump instead of what it was originally intended for. Politics can make people do, say, and act very ugly.

I have not said that you said or believed anything.
I merely pointed out its more likely they were distracted than that they actually threw the game.
It doesn't matter if they told the coach or not. Do you think the coaches would not have heard something on the sidelines? Do you think the rest of the team was ok with risking their qb getting injured?
You said you were going to paint a picture but then you just went off on some political rant talking about Trump and that you didn't want it to become political.
I was never talking at all about why the players were sitting. My whole focus has been on whether the offensive line quit on Carr and whether it would have even made sense for them to do so.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

I have not said that you said or believed anything.
I merely pointed out its more likely they were distracted than that they actually threw the game.
It doesn't matter if they told the coach or not. Do you think the coaches would not have heard something on the sidelines? Do you think the rest of the team was ok with risking their qb getting injured?
You said you were going to paint a picture but then you just went off on some political rant talking about Trump and that you didn't want it to become political.
I was never talking at all about why the players were sitting. My whole focus has been on whether the offensive line quit on Carr and whether it would have even made sense for them to do so.

Dude, I played a lot of football in my lifetime, distractions are an excuse. Once you get on the field you can either play or not. You either have skill or you don't. Nothing in your social life matters on the field. You don't run slower because your mother died. You don't drop passes because the President sends mean tweets. That' not reality. The game is easy and there are no such thing as distractions while you play. They are an excuse.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Dude, I played a lot of football in my lifetime, distractions are an excuse. Once you get on the field you can either play or not. You either have skill or you don't. Nothing in your social life matters on the field. You don't run slower because your mother died. You don't drop passes because the President sends mean tweets. That' not reality. The game is easy and there are no such thing as distractions while you play. They are an excuse.

I did not say distractions were the reason they lost. I said it was MORE LIKELY that they were just distracted than that they quit on Carr. I even said they did not put forth their best effort and Washington played better. Sure i said they don't handle distractions well but i never said it was the reason they lost.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

I did not say distractions were the reason they lost. I said it was MORE LIKELY that they were just distracted than that they quit on Carr. I even said they did not put forth their best effort and Washington played better. Sure i said they don't handle distractions well but i never said it was the reason they lost.

Hey, I still think you are most likely right. Always did. I'm just putting out the possibility based on circumstantial evidence. I'd say 80-20 you are most likely spot on. I don't want you to think I'm some lune that believes every conspiracy that he hears. I'm just saying this has legs. Nothing more.

Hey, my Cowboys O-line played like crap against the Rams. Dak was running for his life the entire game. He had zero time in the pocket.