10 yrs in - where have all the 2nd basemen gone?

Killzone · 12-21-2015, 07:48 AM

After playing 10 yrs as GM of the Red Sox our star 2nd baseman was approaching the end of his contract and wanted an exorbitant extension which I was not prepared to entertain. So I went to initiate a trade, however there was very little available to target at even an exorbitant cost and virtually no 2nd base prospects anywhere.

The following is a list of the teams quality of 2nd basemen. eg Arizona has red rated prospects and a green rated Starter who is 26 yrs old with a infield range of 100 (viewed via editor).

Team - Quality of Prospect/Starter - Age of starter - Range of starter

ARI - RG - 26 - R100
ATL - RB - 26 - R113
BAL - RB - 35 - R89
CWS - RB - 28 - R125
CHC - YG - 28 - R133
CIN - YY - 31 - R108
CLE - RY - 26 - R33
COL - BG - 23 - R117
DET - YG - 33 - R183
HOU - RY - 31 - R126
KAN - YG - 35 - R97
LAA - BG - 32 - R138
LAD - BY - 32 - R50
MIA - RG - 33 - R52
MIL - YB - 25 - R159
MIN - GG - 31 - R112
NYY - RY - 35 - R72
NYM - RG - 32 - R78
OAK - RG - 32 - R121
PHI - RG - 31 - R72
PIT - GG - 30 - R77
SDP - YG - 30 - R142
SFG YG - 26 - R158
SEA - GG - 28 - R141
STL - RG - 30 - R88
TBR - GY - 31 - R103
TEX - YG - 36 - R162 - only rated 47 as 2nd
TOR - GR - 30 - R137
WAS - GG - 22 - R125

The first thing that stands out is that at least a third of the league starters should be DH's. There are very few starters under 30 and the quality of 2nd base prospects are rubbish, even the 3 blue prospects were way overrated.

I backed up the game one day prior to the draft pool being generated and generated 6-7 draft pools. Only one quality 2nd baseman from all the drafts combined, the rest were mainly 1-2 star potentials.

Don't seem to have any other problems with other positions apart from 2nd base. Anyone else getting any similar problems?

Rain King · 12-21-2015, 08:12 AM

Look for SS prospects. Most major league 2nd baseman were drafted/came thru the minors as SS.

Also, is this the major league quickstart? That may be part of the issue regarding lack of current quality 2B. I don't know that for sure, but custom rosters can cause funky issues.

NoOne · 12-21-2015, 12:12 PM

like rain said, don't worry too much about position when drafted.

if this was a fictional league, you can ignore the references below to real world leagues.

i'd look at mlb players only. use a custom filter for the position position, not the simple dropdown box. look at 2b on the 25-man rosters. you will need years of paying attention to know, but there should be an ebb and flow to talent, but a general range can be expected. you will know if there is a problem with relative experience. (not being aloof, i'd tell you what to expect if i paid attention to talent per position each year.)

real world vs. fictional will cause a difference in what you see. depending on what your opinion of above average is, i wouldn't expect more than half the league to have an average-to-above average 2b, except in good years. after real world players leave the league, you'll have to adjust what you expect as average for individual ratings (pot/ovr should be roughly the same nearly useless meaning, good for filters, useful tool but not the best at predicting results).

if you hve default player creation mods, you should be fine. making use of LTM, the transition can be mitigated and keep stats sane. once the league turnsover, you can leave them alone if oyu wish. your eye will have to get used to the new 'normal' when it comes to individual ratings- batters and to a lesser extent relievers are quite different. even though they are different, you can use LTMs to get stat results where they should be (with fluctuation! i do not mean consitent results. how the cookie crumbles is different each time).

e.g. the same X contact may result in a higher or lower average than what you saw in the past. so, you adjust what you think of as an average contact rating for any particular batting average.

aquapong · 12-26-2015, 02:57 PM

A decent SS will convert to a good 2B. Look for high ratings in double play and error ratings, with range being slightly less important, and arm being almost a bonus if they have one that doesn't fall off.

RchW · 12-26-2015, 05:53 PM

In real life the Chicago Cubs have drafted 13 SS in the last few drafts. Epstein claims it is a definite strategy based on the idea that the best athletes often play SS as kids through HS and college. They can be moved to other positions with relative ease

I'd like to see that reflected in OOTP. Perhaps an athleticism rating which could influence position learning and retention of defensive and baserunning skills.

12-21-2015, 07:48 AM	#1
Killzone Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 1	10 yrs in - where have all the 2nd basemen gone? After playing 10 yrs as GM of the Red Sox our star 2nd baseman was approaching the end of his contract and wanted an exorbitant extension which I was not prepared to entertain. So I went to initiate a trade, however there was very little available to target at even an exorbitant cost and virtually no 2nd base prospects anywhere. The following is a list of the teams quality of 2nd basemen. eg Arizona has red rated prospects and a green rated Starter who is 26 yrs old with a infield range of 100 (viewed via editor). Team - Quality of Prospect/Starter - Age of starter - Range of starter ARI - RG - 26 - R100 ATL - RB - 26 - R113 BAL - RB - 35 - R89 CWS - RB - 28 - R125 CHC - YG - 28 - R133 CIN - YY - 31 - R108 CLE - RY - 26 - R33 COL - BG - 23 - R117 DET - YG - 33 - R183 HOU - RY - 31 - R126 KAN - YG - 35 - R97 LAA - BG - 32 - R138 LAD - BY - 32 - R50 MIA - RG - 33 - R52 MIL - YB - 25 - R159 MIN - GG - 31 - R112 NYY - RY - 35 - R72 NYM - RG - 32 - R78 OAK - RG - 32 - R121 PHI - RG - 31 - R72 PIT - GG - 30 - R77 SDP - YG - 30 - R142 SFG YG - 26 - R158 SEA - GG - 28 - R141 STL - RG - 30 - R88 TBR - GY - 31 - R103 TEX - YG - 36 - R162 - only rated 47 as 2nd TOR - GR - 30 - R137 WAS - GG - 22 - R125 The first thing that stands out is that at least a third of the league starters should be DH's. There are very few starters under 30 and the quality of 2nd base prospects are rubbish, even the 3 blue prospects were way overrated. I backed up the game one day prior to the draft pool being generated and generated 6-7 draft pools. Only one quality 2nd baseman from all the drafts combined, the rest were mainly 1-2 star potentials. Don't seem to have any other problems with other positions apart from 2nd base. Anyone else getting any similar problems?

12-21-2015, 08:12 AM	#2
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,120 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Look for SS prospects. Most major league 2nd baseman were drafted/came thru the minors as SS. Also, is this the major league quickstart? That may be part of the issue regarding lack of current quality 2B. I don't know that for sure, but custom rosters can cause funky issues. Last edited by Rain King; 12-21-2015 at 08:15 AM.

12-21-2015, 12:12 PM	#3
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	like rain said, don't worry too much about position when drafted. if this was a fictional league, you can ignore the references below to real world leagues. i'd look at mlb players only. use a custom filter for the position position, not the simple dropdown box. look at 2b on the 25-man rosters. you will need years of paying attention to know, but there should be an ebb and flow to talent, but a general range can be expected. you will know if there is a problem with relative experience. (not being aloof, i'd tell you what to expect if i paid attention to talent per position each year.) real world vs. fictional will cause a difference in what you see. depending on what your opinion of above average is, i wouldn't expect more than half the league to have an average-to-above average 2b, except in good years. after real world players leave the league, you'll have to adjust what you expect as average for individual ratings (pot/ovr should be roughly the same nearly useless meaning, good for filters, useful tool but not the best at predicting results). if you hve default player creation mods, you should be fine. making use of LTM, the transition can be mitigated and keep stats sane. once the league turnsover, you can leave them alone if oyu wish. your eye will have to get used to the new 'normal' when it comes to individual ratings- batters and to a lesser extent relievers are quite different. even though they are different, you can use LTMs to get stat results where they should be (with fluctuation! i do not mean consitent results. how the cookie crumbles is different each time). e.g. the same X contact may result in a higher or lower average than what you saw in the past. so, you adjust what you think of as an average contact rating for any particular batting average. Last edited by NoOne; 12-21-2015 at 12:16 PM.

12-26-2015, 05:53 PM	#5
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	In real life the Chicago Cubs have drafted 13 SS in the last few drafts. Epstein claims it is a definite strategy based on the idea that the best athletes often play SS as kids through HS and college. They can be moved to other positions with relative ease I'd like to see that reflected in OOTP. Perhaps an athleticism rating which could influence position learning and retention of defensive and baserunning skills. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

12-26-2015, 02:57 PM	#4
aquapong Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 378	A decent SS will convert to a good 2B. Look for high ratings in double play and error ratings, with range being slightly less important, and arm being almost a bonus if they have one that doesn't fall off.