Strange Neutered Stats occurance

[David Watts]

So last night I was killing time and decided to set up a random debut league just to see what players arrived for the inaugural draft. I usually use real stats, but decided this time I would use neutered(I know it isn't really called that, so don't anyone try to win a prize correcting me)instead. So I get the league set up and start looking around at some of the rosters. Cleveland has some cat named Chili Davis in their bullpen. Huh? I'm thinking was there really another Chili Davis? But, nope it's the same one and somehow he's a pitcher. So I check Chili's real stats and sure enough at the age of 33(his random debut age) he pitched a whopping 2 innings for the California Angels. Now I remember why I never use neutered stats. This isn't the first time I've seen this happen. The first time involved Ted Williams. Williams like Davis pitched 2 innings for the Sox in 1940. He hit .344 that year, but for some reason those 2 innings pitched confuse OOTP. Strange.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by David Watts

So last night I was killing time and decided to set up a random debut league just to see what players arrived for the inaugural draft. I usually use real stats, but decided this time I would use neutered(I know it isn't really called that, so don't anyone try to win a prize correcting me)instead. So I get the league set up and start looking around at some of the rosters. Cleveland has some cat named Chili Davis in their bullpen. Huh? I'm thinking was there really another Chili Davis? But, nope it's the same one and somehow he's a pitcher. So I check Chili's real stats and sure enough at the age of 33(his random debut age) he pitched a whopping 2 innings for the California Angels. Now I remember why I never use neutered stats. This isn't the first time I've seen this happen. The first time involved Ted Williams. Williams like Davis pitched 2 innings for the Sox in 1940. He hit .344 that year, but for some reason those 2 innings pitched confuse OOTP. Strange.

The game must get confused by the fact that Davis spent 150 games at DH and did not play in the field at all except for that one game at pitcher. I wonder if it gets confused in real stats as well. Hmmm...

EDIT: You won't have this problem if you use the Spritze HS database for your random debut. I just checked and I don't see Chili Davis, Ted Williams, or even Jose Canseco in the pitching2.csv file (neutered pitching stats). It may introduce some other things you don't like, but it will get rid of this.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

The game must get confused by the fact that Davis spent 150 games at DH and did not play in the field at all except for that one game at pitcher. I wonder if it gets confused in real stats as well. Hmmm...

Ah but in 1940, there was no way Mr Williams could hit .344 for the Sox without playing in the field. That thing called the DH wasn't invented yet..............cue LGO....I bet that invented statement is wrong in some way

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Ah but in 1940, there was no way Mr Williams could hit .344 for the Sox without playing in the field. That thing called the DH wasn't invented yet..............cue LGO....I bet that invented statement is wrong in some way

Just edited my above post, probably while you were posting...See edit.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

The game must get confused by the fact that Davis spent 150 games at DH and did not play in the field at all except for that one game at pitcher. I wonder if it gets confused in real stats as well. Hmmm...

EDIT: You won't have this problem if you use the Spritze HS database for your random debut. I just checked and I don't see Chili Davis, Ted Williams, or even Jose Canseco in the pitching2.csv file (neutered pitching stats). It may introduce some other things you don't like, but it will get rid of this.

I've always wanted to try that database, but I'm a coward when it comes to making any changes to my game. If it wasn't for add on central, I wouldn't probably have any mods at all.

[RchW]

Well neutering does produce strange side effects.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I've always wanted to try that database, but I'm a coward when it comes to making any changes to my game. If it wasn't for add on central, I wouldn't probably have any mods at all.

What you could do is start a random debut game and if you don't like the look of the list of players that get imported, you could always say "No thanks". In general, I prefer the list of players that come in via the Spritze database. They just feel more random. I know that's not possible because random is random. You will get some Negro Leaguers, *** players, PCL players, Mexican leaguers, managers who toiled away as players in the minor leagues etc., which may not be your cup of tea.

In terms of importing it. I just download it and extract the stats folder to my OOTP Developments folder. I then re-name it "Spritze HS for OOTP 16" and stick it in my "stats" folder in my "OOTP Baseball 16" folder. That way it's a folder within my stats folder and doesn't get overwritten if I update with a patch. Doesn't take too long, and isn't that complicated to over-write in the event that he updates it, which he may still be doing for this year's OOTP. The only problem is that if/when he does update it, it's probably best to start over with a new game because you want to get the corrections into your game once they're made available. There were a lot of problems with both the database that ships with the game and Spritze's this year because of the fact that Sean Lahman seems to be moving on to other things, so the quality of his database has slid a bit over the last few years and that's what all the databases are based on.

[actionjackson]

Here's a list of non-pitchers who have pitched in MLB at some point in their careers. It even includes Babe Ruth because he played at least five times as many games as a non-pitcher as he did as a pitcher.

[ezpkns34]

Most recent Spritze DB I saw was http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...3-post554.html

Anyone have a link to the HS debut DB?

[actionjackson]

The latest version of Spritze's database is here if you want to give it a spin.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by ezpkns34

Most recent Spritze DB I saw was http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...3-post554.html

Anyone have a link to the HS debut DB?

The thread says it's for OOTP11, but trust me, it's for OOTP16, and it's hot off the presses, just uploaded by the Lord of the Databases himself (at least the link I provided is). That is the HS debut DB.

[Hoiles]

This is an actual issue with neut- stats with the default database. If you look at the pitching2.csv file in your \stats\ folder (the source of neut stats), Chili Davis' real-life 2 scoreless innings in 1993 are extrapolated to 40 or so innings, so it's like he was Mariano Rivera for 1 year in the neut- database. Even if that year isn't used in your import, it still might be taken into account in potential ratings. I think the best way to deal with this is to use the Spritze database, or just use the real stats option.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

The latest version of Spritze's database is here if you want to give it a spin.

For realsies this time. It's now here, and it looks good to my largely untrained eyes so far. Take it for a spin (if you wish) Mr. Watts.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

It may introduce some other things you don't like, but it will get rid of this.

Really? Like what?

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Really? Like what?

It's got a larger pool of players than the as shipped database. There are various historical Negro Leaguers, *** Leaguers, PCL Players, and Mexican and Cuban players all given stats using Major League Equivalencies. All players also come in around 18 years of age, which may not be to everyone's taste either. If you start a random debut historical as David Watts likes to do, you will get players from this pool of all ages and Major League Service Times for your inaugural draft. You also don't get 44 players per team in the inaugural draft, it's more like around 42 to 43, which is still fine even for those that like the "High" injury setting.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

EDIT: You won't have this problem if you use the Spritze HS database for your random debut. I just checked and I don't see Chili Davis, Ted Williams, or even Jose Canseco in the pitching2.csv file (neutered pitching stats). It may introduce some other things you don't like, but it will get rid of this.

Not true, perhaps. I only use the Sprtize DB, neutered stats always but I use fielding and pitching for career. i have Mark Grace in my pen along with someone else, not sure who in my TOP 25 league. And 3 or 4 other players in my RD league. Been awhile since i used neutered stats without using fielding and stamina for entire career so not sure if just neutered and normal fielding/stamina would also have Grace in my pen. He is also a 1B on my team and not only in the pen but i have used him in a few blowout games. ERA close to 8 in 3-4 IP.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

It's got a larger pool of players than the as shipped database. There are various historical Negro Leaguers, *** Leaguers, PCL Players, and Mexican and Cuban players all given stats using Major League Equivalencies. All players also come in around 18 years of age, which may not be to everyone's taste either. If you start a random debut historical as David Watts likes to do, you will get players from this pool of all ages and Major League Service Times for your inaugural draft. You also don't get 44 players per team in the inaugural draft, it's more like around 42 to 43, which is still fine even for those that like the "High" injury setting.

To add to what AJ is saying
The thing I like about a Spritze DB aside from having the 2 main Negro League players that I have in almost every league is the fact that you actually have to wait to develop these guys when they come in at 18. Josh Gibson typically sucks his 1st 5 yrs so you have to be patient with him. In 2 leagues that I had Gibson in til he retired he had 620 ABF HR 683 overall and 325 HR and suffered a CEI at age 29. The only thing i dislike about the Sprtize DB is that I have no clue who some of the *** guys are and drafting them is a crapshoot. Which also is another thing I like about it. I have some *** guy on my most recent RD league who is 2-1 1.09 27 IP 43 K 1 BB through the ASG. He is my setup man for Eck.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by The Game

Not true, perhaps. I only use the Sprtize DB, neutered stats always but I use fielding and pitching for career. i have Mark Grace in my pen along with someone else, not sure who in my TOP 25 league. And 3 or 4 other players in my RD league. Been awhile since i used neutered stats without using fielding and stamina for entire career so not sure if just neutered and normal fielding/stamina would also have Grace in my pen. He is also a 1B on my team and not only in the pen but i have used him in a few blowout games. ERA close to 8 in 3-4 IP.

That's really odd. Is that in OOTP16? I ask because I just checked the pitching2.csv file (neutralized pitching stats) of the current Spritze HS database (uploaded on April 30, 2015), and there's no sign of Mark Grace (gracema01) in there...at all. I.e. he has no neutralized pitching stats. There's Mike Grace (gracemi02) from 1989-2008 (IRL 1995-1999), but there's no Mark Grace. Weird.

[Ruthian23]

Originally Posted by RchW

Well neutering does produce strange side effects.

My dog is pretty much the MVP in this category.

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by David Watts

So last night I was killing time and decided to set up a random debut league just to see what players arrived for the inaugural draft. I usually use real stats, but decided this time I would use neutered(I know it isn't really called that, so don't anyone try to win a prize correcting me)instead. So I get the league set up and start looking around at some of the rosters. Cleveland has some cat named Chili Davis in their bullpen. Huh? I'm thinking was there really another Chili Davis? But, nope it's the same one and somehow he's a pitcher. So I check Chili's real stats and sure enough at the age of 33(his random debut age) he pitched a whopping 2 innings for the California Angels. Now I remember why I never use neutered stats. This isn't the first time I've seen this happen. The first time involved Ted Williams. Williams like Davis pitched 2 innings for the Sox in 1940. He hit .344 that year, but for some reason those 2 innings pitched confuse OOTP. Strange.

Well, when I make next years newts I could leave these little bits of pitching out. It is what I do in my database. The reason the game sometimes gets "confused" is that Mr. Williams, in his short time on the mound, is rated BETTER than many of the pitchers available to the Red Sox. The extrapolation that occurs simply adds 38 innings of replacement level pitching to his real 2 innings. This would seem to be better than the player he replaces on the Red Sox staff.

Anyway, these itty bitty bits of pitching stats can either be removed or left unextrapolated if that is the wish of the masses.