Extension of the championship thread

Hrycaj · 07-08-2014, 02:03 PM

I didn't want to thread jack so I created a separate thread. After reading the ootp championships discussion, I came up with a couple of questions.

1. Is it easier to win championships when you play out every game?

2. Do guys that have ratings on truly win more titles or are there stats only guys that dominate as well?

I ask because I am putting the finishing touches on a new solo league and was thinking about playing out every game, but now I'm starting to second guess this idea. If it is easier to win by playing out every game, I definitely do not want that.

I play semi-stats only/fictional for the record.

Curious to what people have to say on this. Cheers!

Fyrestorm3 · 07-08-2014, 02:14 PM

If you'll recall, my post in that thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

I won 3 times in 4 years with a team in my fictional league, then decided that was too easy, switched to a stats-only MLB league, and haven't won in eight seasons.

EDIT: To clarify, it was 3 wins in 4 years after a 3 year rebuild.

That fictional team had ratings on (a 2-8 scale), and I only played out a few games here and there, except I played out every playoff game. For the most part, I simmed. Meanwhile, with the MLB team, no ratings are displayed, and I did the same simming thing for the first 4 seasons. Since then, I have played out every game in the most recent 4 (and a half, since I'm into my 9th season at the moment).

I'm only one example, so I'm not drawing conclusions. Take from that what you will.

megamanmatt · 07-08-2014, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hrycaj

I didn't want to thread jack so I created a separate thread. After reading the ootp championships discussion, I came up with a couple of questions.

1. Is it easier to win championships when you play out every game?

2. Do guys that have ratings on truly win more titles or are there stats only guys that dominate as well?

I ask because I am putting the finishing touches on a new solo league and was thinking about playing out every game, but now I'm starting to second guess this idea. If it is easier to win by playing out every game, I definitely do not want that.

I play semi-stats only/fictional for the record.

Curious to what people have to say on this. Cheers!

1.) I find it makes it no easier or difficult. It's just a different way to play.

2.) As for this personally I play with 1-10 ratings, no overall/potential stars, low scouting accuracy, 0/50/30/20 AI eval and find it is more than challenging enough. Much like question 1 it's really just more of a preference thing imo.

I find the challenge really comes from what kind of team I have. Do I have a small market team where even short term success is a victory, or a large market team where the challenge is more in creating a dynasty based on continued long-term success? That's one of the unique things about OOTP: there really is no set "I win" or "I lose" situations, it's really all about setting your own goals in the end.

Some of that was about your question, some of it was just random ramblings from a not-so-senior senior board member.

BCStone · 07-08-2014, 02:34 PM

Ive been playing since OOTP4 and I have always played out every single game. I started out with ratings and found myself wanting more of a challenge and it wasn't until version 12 that I decided to give stats only a try. At first I didn't care for it because it required a lot of time scouting players and I really didn't know what kind of players I had. The only info I had was their season performance and my relying on my head scout which is not always accurate in his assessments of players. The only exception for me is I do have ratings for speed and fielding ratings which I feel in real life those attributes would be fairly obvious. My only house rule is I don't look at the top prospects list. It's much more of a challenge and makes it much more satisfying when you do have a good season. I could never go back to ratings. One of the most difficult aspects of stats only is when your looking for that diamond in the rough young player free agent and the draft for sure. Your really relying on your scout then as opposed to a ratings league when your quickly looking around for players with stars next to them.

RchW · 07-08-2014, 03:36 PM

My leagues are set up so that I have a financial behemoth like the Yankees of the reserve clause era but inside modern FA baseball. I expect to win and if not, expect to go to the LCS or WS. My goal is to win 6 WS in a row and quit. I've never done it, hence 86 years have gone by. In each version from v2007 or v8 winning has been more difficult to achieve and the AI has improved immensely. I've had an AI team (Milwaukee) win 4 consecutive and 5 WS in 6 years. If you take the 7th year another AI team (Marlins) won the other 2 WS.

As of v14-15 I'm convinced that it is not likely that consecutive WS can be won anymore. This coming year I expect to miss the playoffs for the second time in 5 years.

I'm completely obsessive about real life stat output in MLB and through three levels of minors. I keep a spreadsheet that tracks variation from year to year and use that to tweak auto calc where it gets things wrong. Things like GB% and LDP and total DP need constant attention. I also use this and strategy settings to create mini eras like 5 years of higher SB and SB success and lower HR or more/less dominant SP and/or closers.

I agree that stats only is harder to win. I disagree that it is more realistic. Player skills can be rated in my opinion I've done it for 46 years (invented my own variation of a table top game) and I use the 1-5 scale for that reason. The wider the rating scale the easier it is to differentiate similar players. You need some fog, or stats only to level the playing field vs the AI.

I only play out the playoffs and rarely play critical series in season. I don't see a big advantage by playing but can't argue the point vs those who feel otherwise.

Like megamanmatt says, it's an individual preference thing. No one should feel they have to justify the way they play. It's way too much fun!

Matt Arnold · 07-08-2014, 03:42 PM

Humans are smarter than the AI - even when talking about your average gamer vs Markus' AI. So the more things you handle yourself, the "easier" it will be. Of course, it also comes down to effort: if you play out every game, and win a championship after 3 seasons, you might play that game for a full year. Someone who skips over chunks of the year may only win after year 5, but can get 10 seasons in for your 3.

So I wouldn't treat it as "playing out games makes it easier to win, so I don't want to do that". I mean, you can play out every game, but if you never care about trading for players, then you might not win. Conversely, letting the AI sim all your games is harder, but if you spend 3 hours scouring through everyone's farm for guys who they don't want, and meddle for every last ounce of every trade you do, you'll likely easily build a champion from that.

So after this rambling, I would say play it however you want to play. Personally I get more fun over the course of a season being GM, but I do like playing out some games, so I more closely manage in the playoffs. I could very well change to playing out every game individually, but I think I would find it frustrating that I don't progress along very far. Even if it just takes 5 minutes per game, playing out a full season is still 13 hours of game-time, which added to time it takes to trade, sign players, draft, eat... takes up too much of my time.

Trebro · 07-08-2014, 11:26 PM

After simming most games I've played in OOTP, I'm trying out a new game that *might* be a dynasty (I'm writing it up as I go along, just in case) and playing out every game.

The team is pretty bad, and watching them blow leads no matter what I do has been infuriating. There are times when it's awesome, but I'm not sure yet if the depth of the experience is worth the time I'm losing in terms of game years.

It really is a matter of personal preference. I just don't know what mine is yet, LOL!

(My commish-only leagues to watch stats n' at will always be full sims, of course. The point there is to progress through time as fast as I can.)

Hrycaj · 07-08-2014, 11:46 PM

Yea, I understand the ootp mantra of it's your game, play it your way. I actually do both. With every new version I start a mlb game and daily play out each game mirroring the season. For my "lifetime" league, I play GM all the way cause I want to get through decades. I was mostly curious to everyone's style, and if they actually saw a difference.

rworth88 · 07-09-2014, 01:50 AM

I play one out of every three, but come playoff time it's hard not to play out them all but I usually stick to it.

megamanmatt · 07-09-2014, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hrycaj

Yea, I understand the ootp mantra of it's your game, play it your way. I actually do both. With every new version I start a mlb game and daily play out each game mirroring the season. For my "lifetime" league, I play GM all the way cause I want to get through decades. I was mostly curious to everyone's style, and if they actually saw a difference.

fwiw I have the occasional league I play out every game but 2/3 or more of my leagues I acts a GM, set rotation manually, set starters in the depth chart, generate a lineup based off those starters then a depth chart based off that line-up and then adjust the depth chart a bit to my liking.

Then I use RTS-mode to sim out games at about 40 or 60 sim speed factor. Playoff games for my teams I watch but don't interfere. Minors I just let the manager do his thing and control roster movement.

07-08-2014, 02:03 PM	#1
Hrycaj All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,751	Extension of the championship thread I didn't want to thread jack so I created a separate thread. After reading the ootp championships discussion, I came up with a couple of questions. 1. Is it easier to win championships when you play out every game? 2. Do guys that have ratings on truly win more titles or are there stats only guys that dominate as well? I ask because I am putting the finishing touches on a new solo league and was thinking about playing out every game, but now I'm starting to second guess this idea. If it is easier to win by playing out every game, I definitely do not want that. I play semi-stats only/fictional for the record. Curious to what people have to say on this. Cheers! __________________ Click on my signature to read about the great game of baseball in Normington.

07-08-2014, 03:36 PM	#5
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	My leagues are set up so that I have a financial behemoth like the Yankees of the reserve clause era but inside modern FA baseball. I expect to win and if not, expect to go to the LCS or WS. My goal is to win 6 WS in a row and quit. I've never done it, hence 86 years have gone by. In each version from v2007 or v8 winning has been more difficult to achieve and the AI has improved immensely. I've had an AI team (Milwaukee) win 4 consecutive and 5 WS in 6 years. If you take the 7th year another AI team (Marlins) won the other 2 WS. As of v14-15 I'm convinced that it is not likely that consecutive WS can be won anymore. This coming year I expect to miss the playoffs for the second time in 5 years. I'm completely obsessive about real life stat output in MLB and through three levels of minors. I keep a spreadsheet that tracks variation from year to year and use that to tweak auto calc where it gets things wrong. Things like GB% and LDP and total DP need constant attention. I also use this and strategy settings to create mini eras like 5 years of higher SB and SB success and lower HR or more/less dominant SP and/or closers. I agree that stats only is harder to win. I disagree that it is more realistic. Player skills can be rated in my opinion I've done it for 46 years (invented my own variation of a table top game) and I use the 1-5 scale for that reason. The wider the rating scale the easier it is to differentiate similar players. You need some fog, or stats only to level the playing field vs the AI. I only play out the playoffs and rarely play critical series in season. I don't see a big advantage by playing but can't argue the point vs those who feel otherwise. Like megamanmatt says, it's an individual preference thing. No one should feel they have to justify the way they play. It's way too much fun! __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit Last edited by RchW; 07-08-2014 at 03:44 PM.

07-08-2014, 11:46 PM	#8
Hrycaj All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,751	Yea, I understand the ootp mantra of it's your game, play it your way. I actually do both. With every new version I start a mlb game and daily play out each game mirroring the season. For my "lifetime" league, I play GM all the way cause I want to get through decades. I was mostly curious to everyone's style, and if they actually saw a difference. __________________ Click on my signature to read about the great game of baseball in Normington.

07-08-2014, 02:34 PM	#4
BCStone Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 112	Ive been playing since OOTP4 and I have always played out every single game. I started out with ratings and found myself wanting more of a challenge and it wasn't until version 12 that I decided to give stats only a try. At first I didn't care for it because it required a lot of time scouting players and I really didn't know what kind of players I had. The only info I had was their season performance and my relying on my head scout which is not always accurate in his assessments of players. The only exception for me is I do have ratings for speed and fielding ratings which I feel in real life those attributes would be fairly obvious. My only house rule is I don't look at the top prospects list. It's much more of a challenge and makes it much more satisfying when you do have a good season. I could never go back to ratings. One of the most difficult aspects of stats only is when your looking for that diamond in the rough young player free agent and the draft for sure. Your really relying on your scout then as opposed to a ratings league when your quickly looking around for players with stars next to them.

07-08-2014, 03:42 PM	#6
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 16,059	Humans are smarter than the AI - even when talking about your average gamer vs Markus' AI. So the more things you handle yourself, the "easier" it will be. Of course, it also comes down to effort: if you play out every game, and win a championship after 3 seasons, you might play that game for a full year. Someone who skips over chunks of the year may only win after year 5, but can get 10 seasons in for your 3. So I wouldn't treat it as "playing out games makes it easier to win, so I don't want to do that". I mean, you can play out every game, but if you never care about trading for players, then you might not win. Conversely, letting the AI sim all your games is harder, but if you spend 3 hours scouring through everyone's farm for guys who they don't want, and meddle for every last ounce of every trade you do, you'll likely easily build a champion from that. So after this rambling, I would say play it however you want to play. Personally I get more fun over the course of a season being GM, but I do like playing out some games, so I more closely manage in the playoffs. I could very well change to playing out every game individually, but I think I would find it frustrating that I don't progress along very far. Even if it just takes 5 minutes per game, playing out a full season is still 13 hours of game-time, which added to time it takes to trade, sign players, draft, eat... takes up too much of my time.

07-08-2014, 11:26 PM	#7
Trebro All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 754	After simming most games I've played in OOTP, I'm trying out a new game that might be a dynasty (I'm writing it up as I go along, just in case) and playing out every game. The team is pretty bad, and watching them blow leads no matter what I do has been infuriating. There are times when it's awesome, but I'm not sure yet if the depth of the experience is worth the time I'm losing in terms of game years. It really is a matter of personal preference. I just don't know what mine is yet, LOL! (My commish-only leagues to watch stats n' at will always be full sims, of course. The point there is to progress through time as fast as I can.)

07-09-2014, 01:50 AM	#9
rworth88 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 171	I play one out of every three, but come playoff time it's hard not to play out them all but I usually stick to it.