Spring Training Rosters

[byzeil]

Not sure if this is intended or is a bug so I'm posting it here for now.

When I got my online league (test copy) up to spring training I see that ST rosters are now up to 60 players, cool, but I also notice that the game did NOT automatically promote everyone on the 40 man roster to the spring training roster. I know some people complained about that but I'm pretty sure that IRL everyone on the 40man is on the ST roster.

Based on this it looks like player Options are going to be done differently. In v14 (and before) everyone on the 40-man is on the ST roster and those that don't make the team use an option to send them to the minors. Hence 3 spring trainings will use up a player's options. The way it appears to be in v15 is that everyone on the 40-man is not placed on the ST roster hence they won't use an option. This will lead to players taking much longer to use up opttions.

Is the new way the way it is supposed to work?

[injury log]

Originally Posted by byzeil

Based on this it looks like player Options are going to be done differently. In v14 (and before) everyone on the 40-man is on the ST roster and those that don't make the team use an option to send them to the minors. Hence 3 spring trainings will use up a player's options. The way it appears to be in v15 is that everyone on the 40-man is not placed on the ST roster hence they won't use an option. This will lead to players taking much longer to use up opttions.

That is not how options work. In real life, a player uses an option if he's on the 40-man roster and spends time in the minors during the season (technically it needs to be at least ten days in real life, and of course rehab assignments don't count). Whether he was demoted to the minors is irrelevant; if a team takes some guy in AA ball and adds him to their 40-man midseason and they just leave him in AA, that player will use an option year, even though he wasn't demoted at any point.

There's a different problem with leaving guys in the minors who are on the 40-man roster, and this is the reason OOTP14 automatically calls up every 40-man roster guy to the Majors at the start of ST: if a player is already out of options before ST starts, then his team should not be able to send him to the minors at the end of ST without putting him through waivers first. But if you can just leave him in the minors throughout Spring Training and beyond, then you can keep guys you should not be allowed to keep.

If OOTP is now letting you keep out-of-options guys on your 40-man roster in the minors throughout ST and into the regular season without ever waiving them, then that's a problem.

[byzeil]

Originally Posted by injury log

That is not how options work. In real life, a player uses an option if he's on the 40-man roster and spends time in the minors during the season (technically it needs to be at least ten days in real life, and of course rehab assignments don't count). Whether he was demoted to the minors is irrelevant; if a team takes some guy in AA ball and adds him to their 40-man midseason and they just leave him in AA, that player will use an option year, even though he wasn't demoted at any point.

There's a different problem with leaving guys in the minors who are on the 40-man roster, and this is the reason OOTP14 automatically calls up every 40-man roster guy to the Majors at the start of ST: if a player is already out of options before ST starts, then his team should not be able to send him to the minors at the end of ST without putting him through waivers first. But if you can just leave him in the minors throughout Spring Training and beyond, then you can keep guys you should not be allowed to keep.

If OOTP is now letting you keep out-of-options guys on your 40-man roster in the minors throughout ST and into the regular season without ever waiving them, then that's a problem.

Thanks for the clarification. So OOTP14 managed options by auto-promoting guys and then charging an option when they went back to the minor leagues instead of charging them an option if they were on the 40-man and stayed in the minors? So in real life a player on the 40-man roster uses an option each season he is in the minors and after his options are used the team must pass him through waivers before allowing him to play another season in the minors?

So since from what I see the game no longer auto-promotes players in ST does it now charge options based on the RL method is the question.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by byzeil

So in real life a player on the 40-man roster uses an option each season he is in the minors and after his options are used the team must pass him through waivers before allowing him to play another season in the minors?.

After a player is out of options he can only be on the 40-man roster if he's also on the 25-man active roster at the same time. If a club doesn't want him on the active roster, then it must either release him, trade him, or assign him outright to the minors (meaning he's removed from the 40-man roster). To assign a player outright to the minors means having to clear waivers first.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by byzeil

So OOTP14 managed options by auto-promoting guys and then charging an option when they went back to the minor leagues instead of charging them an option if they were on the 40-man and stayed in the minors?

I suggest not thinking of the players being "auto-promoted". In real life, during the off-season, there is ONLY the 40-man roster. When spring training starts, ALL players on the 40-man roster are automatically part of an MLB club's training camp. (Effectively, the active roster size is 40 during spring training. Non-roster invitees—that is, players not on the 40-man roster—can also participate in the major league camp. However, to be part of the roster for opening day, they'd have to be added to the 40-man roster.) As spring training progresses, MLB clubs gradually trim down their roster by optioning some of the players on the 40-man roster to the minors, eventually ending up at 25 active players by opening day.

Remember, an option are not charged until the player has spent 20 days in real life (1 day in OOTP) in the minors during the regular season.

[byzeil]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I suggest not thinking of the players being "auto-promoted". In real life, during the off-season, there is ONLY the 40-man roster. When spring training starts, ALL players on the 40-man roster are automatically part of an MLB club's training camp. (Effectively, the active roster size is 40 during spring training. Non-roster invitees—that is, players not on the 40-man roster—can also participate in the major league camp. However, to be part of the roster for opening day, they'd have to be added to the 40-man roster.) As spring training progresses, MLB clubs gradually trim down their roster by optioning some of the players on the 40-man roster to the minors, eventually ending up at 25 active players by opening day.

Remember, an option are not charged until the player has spent 20 days in real life (1 day in OOTP) in the minors during the regular season.

I understand the mechanics IRL now. But in-game(v14) if you don't promote a player on your 40-man roster to your active roster when it comes to spring training the game moves him to the active roster. I understand IRL there is no promotion there. Semantics based on whether you are looking at what happens in RL or in OOTP.

The question still remains, in-game are players who are on the 40-man roster and in the minors being charged and option once their minor league season starts? In v14 that option was charged to the player when he was removed from the active roster during/at the end of ST or at anytime during the season. Since in v15 it appears that not all players on the 40-man roster have to be removed from the active roster because they aren't on the active roster for ST as they were in v14 so are options being charged correctly?

EDIT: Or am I mistaken and OOTP has always charged the Option when the player on the 40-man roster was in the minors for at least 1 day? I may have not seen it this way because of the way the ST rosters were handled and I presumed it was the act of demoting that triggered the option (in OOTP).

Sorry, I may be complicating this more than it needs to be and I may have just misunderstood how OOTP charged options all along. I will have to run some tests to clarify in my mind how things are working now that LGO may have finally gotten it through my thick skull.

[injury log]

Originally Posted by byzeil

EDIT: Or am I mistaken and OOTP has always charged the Option when the player on the 40-man roster was in the minors for at least 1 day?

Yes, that's exactly what OOTP does, but only during the minor league season (not in the offseason). And in real life, I must have remembered incorrectly the minimum number of days a player needs to be in the minors (I said ten in my first post, but if LGO says it's twenty, I'd trust him more than me on that!).

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by injury log

Yes, that's exactly what OOTP does, but only during the minor league season (not in the offseason). And in real life, I must have remembered incorrectly the minimum number of days a player needs to be in the minors (I said ten in my first post, but if LGO says it's twenty, I'd trust him more than me on that!).

actually OOTP14 would 'charged' an option for being on he 40man, and being off the active roster for one day. So if someone was moved off the active roster during spring training, even if MiLB had not started yet, an option would be used.