Tie-Breakers Need Fixing!!!

[BKL]

I'm hoping OOTP15 will address and fix tie-breakers. I have been playing out all my games for the last 10 years in OOTP. One of the most frustrating things is when you play out an entire season, there are exciting close season playoff races, which may result in a tie and an exciting tie-breaker game(s) and then OOTP messes up the tie-breakers. This happens if more than two teams are tied for multiple spots.

In the past sesons, I ended up with three teams tied for two spots - division title and then wild-card. OOTP messed up the tie-breaker procedures and actually allowed an eliminated team back in the playoffs!! Since I backup I was able to re-run scenarios and in almost each case OOTP wanted to throw the eliminated team back in!

Here's the point - this should be an area that is fixed since one of the major points of the season is to find out which team should ligitimately be in the playoffs.

Ideally, this would be something we could customize. My personal suggestion is to just have the user be able to click on a drop down "Seed Teams and End Season" You would then be given the ability, if desired, to indicate what teams are seeded where. You can manaully play extra games before selecting this to determine your own tie-breakers. But at least the winners would be properly seeded. This would be a similar concept to how the All Star Players are determined, where you can manually select or just let the computer do it past a certain date. Why not have the same for seeding?

This seems like an important area. I have seen numerous posts indicating an issue with tie-breakers. Not sure why this wouldn't be a priority.

Who wants to play a season only to have the wrong team make the playoffs???

[sjshaw]

Agreed 100%. This is a major irritant.

Originally Posted by BKL

Here's the point - this should be an area that is fixed since one of the major points of the season is to find out which team should ligitimately be in the playoffs.

Ideally, this would be something we could customize. My personal suggestion is to just have the user be able to click on a drop down "Seed Teams and End Season" You would then be given the ability, if desired, to indicate what teams are seeded where. You can manaully play extra games before selecting this to determine your own tie-breakers. But at least the winners would be properly seeded. This would be a similar concept to how the All Star Players are determined, where you can manually select or just let the computer do it past a certain date. Why not have the same for seeding?

This seems like an important area. I have seen numerous posts indicating an issue with tie-breakers. Not sure why this wouldn't be a priority.

Who wants to play a season only to have the wrong team make the playoffs???

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by BKL

Ideally, this would be something we could customize. My personal suggestion is to just have the user be able to click on a drop down "Seed Teams and End Season" You would then be given the ability, if desired, to indicate what teams are seeded where. You can manaully play extra games before selecting this to determine your own tie-breakers. But at least the winners would be properly seeded. This would be a similar concept to how the All Star Players are determined, where you can manually select or just let the computer do it past a certain date. Why not have the same for seeding?

I'd say just get OOTP to use the proper rules. They're not that complicated, though they can get a bit tricky. But I've already got an Excel file with example standings of each tie-break scenario MLB currently has rules to resolve, and it's easier to see what's going on with example standings.

The only customization I would add are very general ones (which I've described in past posts).

[Nugget699]

My biggest issue is in leagues that don't have play-offs. If two or more teams are tied at the top then the team alphabetically last out of the tied teams is declared the champion. Why?

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Nugget699

My biggest issue is in leagues that don't have play-offs. If two or more teams are tied at the top then the team alphabetically last out of the tied teams is declared the champion. Why?

Actually, no champion is declared. Been asking for this for some time now. Declare a Champion and have a news article about said champion.

And yes, automatically schedule a tie breaker game(s).

[BKL]

Hopefully it will be recognized that this needs addressing. As I mentioned earlier, what's the point of playing a season, only to have the wrong teams make the playoffs?? Especially with a game with such great customization. It's kind of fun to have your own tie breaker rules, like who gets home field advantage, how many games are played, what order, etc.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Actually, no champion is declared. Been asking for this for some time now. Declare a Champion and have a news article about said champion.

And yes, automatically schedule a tie breaker game(s).

Actually, no. The user should actually have a choice as to what happens. It's either: (1) schedule a tie-breaking playoff game to determine the champion; (2) use non-game methods (e.g. head-to-head record) to determine the champion; or (3) leave the result a tie and declare both teams co-champions. These options would be in the rules section for the league, and the user can pick the one they like best.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Actually, no. The user should actually have a choice as to what happens. It's either: (1) schedule a tie-breaking playoff game to determine the champion; (2) use non-game methods (e.g. head-to-head record) to determine the champion; or (3) leave the result a tie and declare both teams co-champions. These options would be in the rules section for the league, and the user can pick the one they like best.

Sure, there should be choices for the user.

Bottom line is - anything would be an improvement over what's there now, which is nothing.

[bwburke94]

Originally Posted by BKL

In the past seasons, I ended up with three teams tied for two spots - division title and then wild-card. OOTP messed up the tie-breaker procedures and actually allowed an eliminated team back in the playoffs!!

Hm... If three teams are tied at X wins and one team is at X-1, this scenario could happen in OOTP. I'll use 89-73 as the tie point.

One team sweeps the division tiebreaker, standings are now:

Team A 91-73
Team B 89-74
Team C 89-74
Team D 88-74

OOTP then tries to determine which teams are in the wild card tiebreaker, and incorrectly judges Team D as part of the tie. Team D wins the tiebreaker.

Team A 91-73
Team D 89-74
Team B 90-75
Team C 89-76

Both are 1.5 games back of Team A, but Team D's winning percentage is 0.5460 and Team B's winning percentage is 0.5455, giving Team D the spot.

[moonlightmerc]

Originally Posted by bwburke94

Hm... If three teams are tied at X wins and one team is at X-1, this scenario could happen in OOTP. I'll use 89-73 as the tie point.

One team sweeps the division tiebreaker, standings are now:

Team A 91-73
Team B 89-74
Team C 89-74
Team D 88-74

OOTP then tries to determine which teams are in the wild card tiebreaker, and incorrectly judges Team D as part of the tie. Team D wins the tiebreaker.

Team A 91-73
Team D 89-74
Team B 90-75
Team C 89-76

Both are 1.5 games back of Team A, but Team D's winning percentage is 0.5460 and Team B's winning percentage is 0.5455, giving Team D the spot.

I think this happens because tie-breaker games is part of the season. I believe a solution is to have tie-breakers after the season ends. so Team D is officially eliminated. When the tie-breakers is played during the season no team is officially eliminated.

[markprior22]

And the AI needs to know that these are playoff type games so the best rested pitcher starts and no starter takes a off day for no particular reason.

[BKL]

Originally Posted by bwburke94

Hm... If three teams are tied at X wins and one team is at X-1, this scenario could happen in OOTP. I'll use 89-73 as the tie point.

One team sweeps the division tiebreaker, standings are now:

Team A 91-73
Team B 89-74
Team C 89-74
Team D 88-74

OOTP then tries to determine which teams are in the wild card tiebreaker, and incorrectly judges Team D as part of the tie. Team D wins the tiebreaker.

Team A 91-73
Team D 89-74
Team B 90-75
Team C 89-76

Both are 1.5 games back of Team A, but Team D's winning percentage is 0.5460 and Team B's winning percentage is 0.5455, giving Team D the spot.

Yes - this is exactly what happened in my situation. OOTP thought the fourth place team was then still in it, and then forced another unnecessary tiebreaker. The issue is that these are coded as "regular season" games. That's why my suggestion is to just allow the user to set the seeding after they finish the season. If they don't want to set it, then OOTP can do it automatically after a certain day passes.

[Honorable_Pawn]

Mark Johnson??


Mark Johnson??

[dward1]

tie-breakers, end-of-season AI and playoff AI and playoff coverage could do with some improvement. just always kind of a letdown to make the playoffs and see the AI teams starting the 4th starter and a reliever while using their ace in relief. playoffs are a pretty important part of gameplay, if someone has managed 162 games to claw into the playoffs there are many places where the sim can go wrong and leave a bad taste in your mouth

[Le Grande Orange]

Rest assured I will be testing tie-breaking in the beta for OOTP 15. And if it's not up to par I will (again) point that out (forcefully).

[Caporegime]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Rest assured I will be testing tie-breaking in the beta for OOTP 15. And if it's not up to par I will (again) point that out (forcefully).

Thank you!

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Rest assured I will be testing tie-breaking in the beta for OOTP 15. And if it's not up to par I will (again) point that out (forcefully).

Sounds like a plan.

[pete3]

Just one more suggestion in case it's not difficult to code. Can we not just make it where we can override playoff matchups in commish mode? Sort of like changing the schedule, have the teams in the playoff tree set up in a drop-down menu in case we want to make changes. Just a thought, if it can be done.

[BKL]

Originally Posted by pete3

Just one more suggestion in case it's not difficult to code. Can we not just make it where we can override playoff matchups in commish mode? Sort of like changing the schedule, have the teams in the playoff tree set up in a drop-down menu in case we want to make changes. Just a thought, if it can be done.

Yes, that kind of what I'm thinking. Or, just have it so we can customize what teams are seeded where. If you allow the end user to customize or make the decision, there would never be an issue.

Given that so many people are bringing this up and we have shown scenarios where the wrong team gets seeded, not sure why this bug wouldn't be addressed. Should the way teams make the playoff be a priority?

[BKL]

I think the issue with tie breakers is that it works for ties between two teams, but has problems when more than two teams are tied, especially if it's for multiple positions.