Question - Changing MLB Abbreviations?

The Game · 10-13-2013, 06:06 AM

I am in 2015 in my league. What effect will changing the teams abbreviations have at this point? I will leave the historical ID alone. I just want to change SLN to STL, NYN, to NYM CHA to CWS, etc.

Bluenoser · 10-13-2013, 07:04 AM

It will have no effect. Once you pass the 2013 in an OOTP game nothing else will get imported that's going to have any effect on that. It's only required when you want to follow real history for location/name changes and/or assign rookies to their real teams.

injury log · 10-13-2013, 07:24 AM

It will have one very minor effect that I can think of: when you look at a player's stats line, it will read like this:

2013 SLN
2014 SLN
2015 STL
2016 STL
...

So it might look like guys changed teams even though they didn't. But that's the only effect it will have, I think.

I really don't like some of the abbreviations the game uses now, and I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to suggest to Markus they be changed as defaults. For example, I have no idea why Tampa Bay is abbreviated "TBA", instead of just "TB" -- the game is perfectly capable of using two-letter abbreviations, and there is no NL team in Tampa, so no reason for the "A" at the end. I also always change "NYA", "NYN", "CHA", "CHN" and "LAN" to the normal abbreviations NYY, NYM, CWS, CHC and LAD. I'm not sure if they're set as they are now because no one has bothered to suggest they be changed, or if it's because my opinion is a minority one and other OOTPers like them as they are, but maybe this thread can serve as a mini-poll to find out if anyone would prefer they stay as they are.

Bluenoser · 10-13-2013, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injury log

It will have one very minor effect that I can think of: when you look at a player's stats line, it will read like this:

2013 SLN
2014 SLN
2015 STL
2016 STL
...

So it might look like guys changed teams even though they didn't. But that's the only effect it will have, I think.

I really don't like some of the abbreviations the game uses now, and I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to suggest to Markus they be changed as defaults. For example, I have no idea why Tampa Bay is abbreviated "TBA", instead of just "TB" -- the game is perfectly capable of using two-letter abbreviations, and there is no NL team in Tampa, so no reason for the "A" at the end. I also always change "NYA", "NYN", "CHA", "CHN" and "LAN" to the normal abbreviations NYY, NYM, CWS, CHC and LAD. I'm not sure if they're set as they are now because no one has bothered to suggest they be changed, or if it's because my opinion is a minority one and other OOTPers like them as they are, but maybe this thread can serve as a mini-poll to find out if anyone would prefer they stay as they are.

The reason they are like that is so they match up with the DB that holds the data on the players. The game needs a way to know which team to put players on when assigning to real teams. Because there were more than one version of teams in places like Baltimore, Washington and Seattle, the game needs to be able to differentiate between those versions.

jaysdailydose · 10-13-2013, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

The reason they are like that is so they match up with the DB that holds the data on the players. The game needs a way to know which team to put players on when assigning to real teams. Because there were more than one version of teams in places like Baltimore, Washington and Seattle, the game needs to be able to differentiate between those versions.

While I personally understand the necessity of this, I don't know what value it would have in a new MLB game... like if you are using the MLB quickstart, I think the abbreviations should default to the actively used ones.

But, its nothing I can't change myself and nothing I'd think of worrying the devs over. Much more important stuff to worry about...

The Game · 10-13-2013, 02:36 PM

Blue and IL thanx, you both confirmed what I was thinking. I couldn't remember if it would show STL for just the years I change or the history of the franchise.

Bigrod · 10-13-2013, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injury log

It will have one very minor effect that I can think of: when you look at a player's stats line, it will read like this:

2013 SLN
2014 SLN
2015 STL
2016 STL
...

So it might look like guys changed teams even though they didn't. But that's the only effect it will have, I think.

I really don't like some of the abbreviations the game uses now, and I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to suggest to Markus they be changed as defaults. For example, I have no idea why Tampa Bay is abbreviated "TBA", instead of just "TB" -- the game is perfectly capable of using two-letter abbreviations, and there is no NL team in Tampa, so no reason for the "A" at the end. I also always change "NYA", "NYN", "CHA", "CHN" and "LAN" to the normal abbreviations NYY, NYM, CWS, CHC and LAD. I'm not sure if they're set as they are now because no one has bothered to suggest they be changed, or if it's because my opinion is a minority one and other OOTPers like them as they are, but maybe this thread can serve as a mini-poll to find out if anyone would prefer they stay as they are.

100% Correct I.L.

One note is that it also changes some News items that use abbrev. So if a story refers to NYA and you change the abbrev. to NYY, future news would show NYY and not NYA.

I always change mine to match what's used in real life. So if you want to suggest it...I'll support it.

Bigrod · 10-13-2013, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

The reason they are like that is so they match up with the DB that holds the data on the players. The game needs a way to know which team to put players on when assigning to real teams. Because there were more than one version of teams in places like Baltimore, Washington and Seattle, the game needs to be able to differentiate between those versions.

Not true Blue. All that info is based on team id# not abbreviations.

Le Grande Orange · 10-13-2013, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injury log

For example, I have no idea why Tampa Bay is abbreviated "TBA", instead of just "TB" -- the game is perfectly capable of using two-letter abbreviations, and there is no NL team in Tampa, so no reason for the "A" at the end. I also always change "NYA", "NYN", "CHA", "CHN" and "LAN" to the normal abbreviations NYY, NYM, CWS, CHC and LAD.

The reason for those abbreviations is because they are Retrosheet's team abbreviations, which in turn are the abbreviations used in the Lahman Database. Thus, probably for consistency's sake, they are used in OOTP.

There was a time when the Lahman Database used its own team abbreviation system. But some years back it switched to using the Retrosheet abbreviation system. (The Retrosheet system uses a standardized three-character alphanumeric abbreviation for every major league club from 1876 onwards, as well as for the 1871-75 National Association.)

I've been using the Retrosheet abbreviation system for so long now that I'm completely used to it, and it is the default way I abbreviate MLB teams. I like the consistency of all clubs having the same length of abbreviation (three characters). It's also helpful to know the Retrosheet system if one is interested in working with its game log files.

As to TBA for Tampa Bay, that can be easily rationalized without resorting to A standing for American League: Tampa BAy.

The Game · 10-13-2013, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

As to TBA for Tampa Bay, that can be easily rationalized without resorting to A standing for American League: Tampa BAy.

When they were bad it use to stand for To Be Announced.

Bowtie · 10-13-2013, 07:31 PM

I agree with IL too. Just because Retrosheet has used SLN for the St. Louis Cardinals doesn't necessarily make it right. I would prefer STL. But what about the old St. Louis Browns? Easy. Use SLB (St. Louis Browns).

Ike348 · 10-13-2013, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowtie

I agree with IL too. Just because Retrosheet has used SLN for the St. Louis Cardinals doesn't necessarily make it right. I would prefer STL. But what about the old St. Louis Browns? Easy. Use SLB (St. Louis Browns).

I've always gone with STB, but that's just me.

Bowtie · 10-13-2013, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

As to TBA for Tampa Bay, that can be easily rationalized without resorting to A standing for American League: Tampa BAy.

How about TBY? I still prefer just simple TB.

Bowtie · 10-13-2013, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ike348

I've always gone with STB, but that's just me.

That's a good one too.

Bluenoser · 10-13-2013, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigrod

Not true Blue. All that info is based on team id# not abbreviations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

The reason for those abbreviations is because they are Retrosheet's team abbreviations, which in turn are the abbreviations used in the Lahman Database. Thus, probably for consistency's sake, they are used in OOTP.

There was a time when the Lahman Database used its own team abbreviation system. But some years back it switched to using the Retrosheet abbreviation system. (The Retrosheet system uses a standardized three-character alphanumeric abbreviation for every major league club from 1876 onwards, as well as for the 1871-75 National Association.)

I've been using the Retrosheet abbreviation system for so long now that I'm completely used to it, and it is the default way I abbreviate MLB teams. I like the consistency of all clubs having the same length of abbreviation (three characters). It's also helpful to know the Retrosheet system if one is interested in working with its game log files.

As to TBA for Tampa Bay, that can be easily rationalized without resorting to A standing for American League: Tampa BAy.

Yep - I stand corrected. Haven't dabbled with historical for several versions. I knew it had something to do with the Lahman DB and the import some time ago.

Ike348 · 10-13-2013, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowtie

How about TBY? I still prefer just simple TB.

TB is the best, but if you must go with 3, TBR is where its at.

In fictional, however, I can't stand 2 letters. I always go 3-4. So "Las Vegas Gold Bugs" becomes LVGB, not LV.

Le Grande Orange · 10-13-2013, 08:54 PM

The issue with using the team nickname as part of the abbreviation, at least for real-world teams, is that team nicknames can and do change. Which in turn means the abbreviation should change when the nickname changes. NYY is fine for the New York Yankees, except that the Yankees haven't always been called the Yankees. The Boston Red Sox haven't always been called the Red Sox; the Boston Braves weren't always called the Braves; the Philadelphia Phillies weren't always the Phillies (at least, not officially). And so on.

The Retrosheet system, for what it's worth, sidesteps this issue by using abbreviations which are based on the location part of a team's name, and ignoring the nickname part.

Ike348 · 10-13-2013, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

The issue with using the team nickname as part of the abbreviation, at least for real-world teams, is that team nicknames can and do change. Which in turn means the abbreviation should change when the nickname changes. NYY is fine for the New York Yankees, except that the Yankees haven't always been called the Yankees. The Boston Red Sox haven't always been called the Red Sox; the Boston Braves weren't always called the Braves; the Philadelphia Phillies weren't always the Phillies (at least, not officially). And so on.

The Retrosheet system, for what it's worth, sidesteps this issue by using abbreviations which are based on the location part of a team's name, and ignoring the nickname part.

Don't remind me about the Blue Jays

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Questdog · 10-13-2013, 09:53 PM

The game can handle anything you want to throw at it for abbreviations. In all my old time leagues, I like to use what was common at the time, which were usually longer and always had a period in there somewhere. And not all in CAPS. Like Balt. and St. L. Also for minor leagues I use the whole city name as the abbreviation, since no matter what I come up with, I can never remember what they stand for. And then you get teams like Charlotte, Chattanooga and Charleston that are hard to differentiate with abbreviations anyways. There are a few minor issues with having the abbreviations so long, but they are more than made up for by 1) always knowing exactly what team it is and 2) easily telling the difference between MLB and minor league lines in a players career history.

10-13-2013, 06:06 AM	#1
The Game Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Inside The Game Posts: 30,937	Question - Changing MLB Abbreviations? I am in 2015 in my league. What effect will changing the teams abbreviations have at this point? I will leave the historical ID alone. I just want to change SLN to STL, NYN, to NYM CHA to CWS, etc. __________________ Go today don't wait for tomorrow It isn't promised, all the time you get borrowed Don't live your life for other people Don't bottle your emotions till they crack and fill a couple just sorrows Take your mind and refocus go get a paper write your goals out Throw your middle fingers to all your haters "Stay Strong"

10-13-2013, 02:36 PM	#6
The Game Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Inside The Game Posts: 30,937	Blue and IL thanx, you both confirmed what I was thinking. I couldn't remember if it would show STL for just the years I change or the history of the franchise. __________________ Go today don't wait for tomorrow It isn't promised, all the time you get borrowed Don't live your life for other people Don't bottle your emotions till they crack and fill a couple just sorrows Take your mind and refocus go get a paper write your goals out Throw your middle fingers to all your haters "Stay Strong"

10-13-2013, 07:31 PM	#11
Bowtie All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,315	I agree with IL too. Just because Retrosheet has used SLN for the St. Louis Cardinals doesn't necessarily make it right. I would prefer STL. But what about the old St. Louis Browns? Easy. Use SLB (St. Louis Browns). __________________

10-13-2013, 07:04 AM	#2
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,490	It will have no effect. Once you pass the 2013 in an OOTP game nothing else will get imported that's going to have any effect on that. It's only required when you want to follow real history for location/name changes and/or assign rookies to their real teams.

10-13-2013, 07:24 AM	#3
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	It will have one very minor effect that I can think of: when you look at a player's stats line, it will read like this: 2013 SLN 2014 SLN 2015 STL 2016 STL ... So it might look like guys changed teams even though they didn't. But that's the only effect it will have, I think. I really don't like some of the abbreviations the game uses now, and I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to suggest to Markus they be changed as defaults. For example, I have no idea why Tampa Bay is abbreviated "TBA", instead of just "TB" -- the game is perfectly capable of using two-letter abbreviations, and there is no NL team in Tampa, so no reason for the "A" at the end. I also always change "NYA", "NYN", "CHA", "CHN" and "LAN" to the normal abbreviations NYY, NYM, CWS, CHC and LAD. I'm not sure if they're set as they are now because no one has bothered to suggest they be changed, or if it's because my opinion is a minority one and other OOTPers like them as they are, but maybe this thread can serve as a mini-poll to find out if anyone would prefer they stay as they are.

10-13-2013, 08:54 PM	#17
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,642	The issue with using the team nickname as part of the abbreviation, at least for real-world teams, is that team nicknames can and do change. Which in turn means the abbreviation should change when the nickname changes. NYY is fine for the New York Yankees, except that the Yankees haven't always been called the Yankees. The Boston Red Sox haven't always been called the Red Sox; the Boston Braves weren't always called the Braves; the Philadelphia Phillies weren't always the Phillies (at least, not officially). And so on. The Retrosheet system, for what it's worth, sidesteps this issue by using abbreviations which are based on the location part of a team's name, and ignoring the nickname part.

10-13-2013, 09:53 PM	#19
Questdog Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In a dark, damp cave where I'm training slugs to run the bases...... Posts: 16,142	The game can handle anything you want to throw at it for abbreviations. In all my old time leagues, I like to use what was common at the time, which were usually longer and always had a period in there somewhere. And not all in CAPS. Like Balt. and St. L. Also for minor leagues I use the whole city name as the abbreviation, since no matter what I come up with, I can never remember what they stand for. And then you get teams like Charlotte, Chattanooga and Charleston that are hard to differentiate with abbreviations anyways. There are a few minor issues with having the abbreviations so long, but they are more than made up for by 1) always knowing exactly what team it is and 2) easily telling the difference between MLB and minor league lines in a players career history.