AI Manager awful at knowing when to pull SPs

[sandman2575]

I've been playing mostly GM, and letting the AI manager handle the in-game play. For the most part it does fine -- knows when to sacrifice, pinch-hit, etc.

But the one thing it is really *bad* at, is knowing when to pull a Starting pitcher.

I've set all my strategy sliders, and for most of the 7-8 Inning, an 9-Extra Inning situations, to the left-most "Quick Hook" for SP.

Still, it seems like the manager only will pull a SP after he's tired. Not when he's in trouble. Not even when he's getting tired. But only definitely tired.

I've set pitcher fatigue to "high", in the hopes that SPs would tire more quickly and get a quicker hook come the 7th / 8th innings. But no luck. AI manager just seems determined to leave a struggling SP in the game til he's pitched his requisite 115+ pitches.

Any advice? This is starting to drive me crazy. I've lost a few games now to SPs being left in the game past the point when it would be obvious to the most brain-dead manager that he should have been taken out.....

[Questdog]

Where are you setting the pitchers' fatigue setting to 'high'?......there is no such setting that I know of......You can set their stamina to 'high', but that would have the opposite effect.........

I think you have your settings probably at a place where they are not affecting things they way you think they ought......

[Izz]

Originally Posted by sandman2575

AI manager just seems determined to leave a struggling SP in the game til he's pitched his requisite 115+ pitches.

Has this happened with more than one AI manager? It might just be that you've got a dud.

[sandman2575]

Originally Posted by Questdog

Where are you setting the pitchers' fatigue setting to 'high'?......there is no such setting that I know of......You can set their stamina to 'high', but that would have the opposite effect.........

I think you have your settings probably at a place where they are not affecting things they way you think they ought......

Sorry, I misspoke. I meant that I set pitcher stamina to Low (one notch below Normal) in the Game setup Strategy tab. I did this for all leagues (major and minor). "Low" stamina seems to be the default when creating a game. I had changed it to normal when I started, but now I've gone back to the "Low stamina" default.

Doesn't seem to be helping me however. I suppose it's possible my manager is just bad -- I haven't tested with other managers. But when it comes to giving SPs the hook, my current manager makes Grady Little look like an impatient tyrant by comparison.

Beyond the settings I've already tinkered with -- the stamina levels in Game Setup and the "Quick Hook" slider in Team Strategy -- is there anything else I can do??

[Questdog]

Make sure you have the hook setting to the left for ALL the situations and also check the league modifier for Starting Pitcher stamina.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Doesn't the manager's strategies overwrite team strategy if you aren't managing (GM Only Mode) the game? May want to check out his sliders or get a new manager.


-Shalom

[SteveP]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

Doesn't the manager's strategies overwrite team strategy if you aren't managing (GM Only Mode) the game?

No, that isn't the way it works. The managers strategy preferences begun the team strategies at the time the manager is hired. Otherwise his strategy preferences have no impact. You can change the team strategies for your team (or for any other team, if you are commissioner), and thereby make the manager's strategy preferences meaningless.

[megamanmatt]

Question: MLB quick start or fictional league?

[SteveP]

The Hook SP slider in team strategies only comes into play based on the total number of runs scored by the other team while an SP is in the game. It has no impact on the AI taking out an SP for any other reason.

Reducing the pitcher stamina setting in League Strategies, or reducing the modifier for SP stamina on that page, will only cause the SP is get tired earlier in games. It will not change how the AI goes about deciding to remove an SP.

What causes the AI to take out an SP before he gets tired is the setting of pitch count limits in player strategies. You can only do this for your own team, even if you are commissioner. The AI does not limit pitch counts on any teams it controls.

When an SP is 90% of the way to becoming Tired, he loses effectiveness. You can take account of that by setting pitch count limits (assuming you have a good bullpen, otherwise this may not be a good idea). Or you can run the hook SP slider in Team Strategies over to the left, so that if your pitcher is starting to give up runs, the AI will take him out. The AI will not take him out just because he has pitched himself into a dangerous situation, in which he may give up a lot of runs with one pitch. You would have to do that yourself by taking manual control.

Hope that helps.

[sandman2575]

Many thanks for the clarifications. (This is in my fictional league, btw.)

It's very helpful to know how the AI goes about assessing when to pull a pitcher. What you describe makes perfect sense with what I've been seeing. The AI manager doesn't have a sense of when your SP is getting himself into trouble. Obviously, in real life, if an SP walked the first two batters he faced in the 7th inning in a game where his team was up by a run, he would get an immediate hook (assuming availability/condition of bullpen of course). But as I'm finding out the hard way, the AI manager does not do this. It seems the SP either has to give up the runs or run out of steam before the AI manager hooks him.

I'm going to start experimenting with setting pitch counts and see if that helps. Otherwise I'm going to have to take over manual control of player substitutions (much as I'd rather not have to do that).

[megamanmatt]

For fictional leagues try switching the Starting Pitcher Stamina modifier to around .950 . You tend to see pitch counts more in the high 80's - 90's - and lower hundreds.

[sandman2575]

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

For fictional leagues try switching the Starting Pitcher Stamina modifier to around .950 . You tend to see pitch counts more in the high 80's - 90's - and lower hundreds.

Thanks for the tip -- I'll try that. Right now, SPs are routinely going 8+ innings. I'd like to tone that done to something a little more realistic (for 2013 that is) --

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by sandman2575

Thanks for the tip -- I'll try that. Right now, SPs are routinely going 8+ innings. I'd like to tone that done to something a little more realistic (for 2013 that is) --

No problem. With that setting I find starters most likely to leave either at the end of the 7th or some time during but many also go out during the 6th. You'll still see guys go into the 8th on occasion but they are usually higher stamina guys who haven't let many runs across.

For example a game between Baltimore and Kansas City sees Baltimore shutting KC out 9-0. Top of the 8th the O's starter is still in and gets the first out then surrenders a walk and a hit so the manager takes him out and the reliever strands the runners. Even in that situation some might complain the relever came out which highlights another problem: There are as many definitions of "good strategy" as there are fans of baseball. In every sport you get people second guessing coaches and their strategies but not like baseball. In baseball there's nothing but time so every instant of every play of every game gets debated forever.

[legofarley]

You can also place pitch limits on each pitcher.

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by legofarley

You can also place pitch limits on each pitcher.

He's talking league wide too so no. He can't.

[RchW]

In v13 it seemed that SP on AI control stayed in the game longer when the bullpen was tired. I haven't played enough v14 to compare but expect the new bullpen usage feature to improve that issue.

The bottom line is that the human player should do what real life teams do and set a max pitch count especially for young pitchers and your big horse types with high stamina, who are the most likely to be abused. I generally use 125 for my studs, expecting them to go 110-115 most of the time. I use 100-110 for young pitchers hoping that it does in fact protect arms. Average veterans or marginal pitchers have no pitch count as their performance will determine usage.

I revisit these settings from time to time if injuries or fatigue become a factor.

[Darviathar]

I had thought that this might be a problem related to my replaying 1980's seasons. Like you describe above, the computer seems determined to run his starting pitchers into the ground, and does not pinch hit for them in obvious situations. Changing the sliders for all the NL managers in my league (1988) has helped some, but it still feels highly unrealistic. The flip side to that is that the computer seems adverse to letting his pitchers throw shutouts when they are sailing right along and retiring every batter. Houston's Mike Scott had a 1 hit shutout against me through the 8th inning, didn't start the 9th, and ended up without a win after I pounded on the Astro bullpen. He was under 100 pitches and could have easily finished the game.

[sandman2575]

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

For fictional leagues try switching the Starting Pitcher Stamina modifier to around .950 . You tend to see pitch counts more in the high 80's - 90's - and lower hundreds.

Question just occurred to me -- do you set the stamina modifier to .950 *in addition to* setting Pitcher Stamina to "Low" - ?

My experiments with setting pitch counts hasn't be yielding great results thus far. Last game I set the count for my SP to 92 pitches -- deliberately keeping it low -- but the manager left him out there til about 120 pitches. The SP was indicating "Tired" around 100 pitches. So the AI manager both seemed to ignore my low pitch count setting and the fact that the SP was tired. Strange.

I'm glad the AI doesn't just mindlessly yank your SP the second he reaches his pitch count. I don't want the SP removed in the middle of facing a batter just because he reached his pitch limit during the AB. So that's good. But letting SP throw 120 when I set the limit to 92 seems kind of ridiculous.

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by sandman2575

Question just occurred to me -- do you set the stamina modifier to .950 *in addition to* setting Pitcher Stamina to "Low" - ?

My experiments with setting pitch counts hasn't be yielding great results thus far. Last game I set the count for my SP to 92 pitches -- deliberately keeping it low -- but the manager left him out there til about 120 pitches. The SP was indicating "Tired" around 100 pitches. So the AI manager both seemed to ignore my low pitch count setting and the fact that the SP was tired. Strange.

I'm glad the AI doesn't just mindlessly yank your SP the second he reaches his pitch count. I don't want the SP removed in the middle of facing a batter just because he reached his pitch limit during the AB. So that's good. But letting SP throw 120 when I set the limit to 92 seems kind of ridiculous.

I leave it at 'low' as I've found switching it to 'very low' has the unintended side effect of taking a SP another day or so extra to recover from a start. Just a quick look my league has 43 pitchers with 200+ innings in it's last year(2029) while the MLB had 31 in 2012. So while it's not perfect it does bring it closer.

[Honorable_Pawn]

Originally Posted by RchW

In v13 it seemed that SP on AI control stayed in the game longer when the bullpen was tired. I haven't played enough v14 to compare but expect the new bullpen usage feature to improve that issue.

The bottom line is that the human player should do what real life teams do and set a max pitch count especially for young pitchers and your big horse types with high stamina, who are the most likely to be abused. I generally use 125 for my studs, expecting them to go 110-115 most of the time. I use 100-110 for young pitchers hoping that it does in fact protect arms. Average veterans or marginal pitchers have no pitch count as their performance will determine usage.

I revisit these settings from time to time if injuries or fatigue become a factor.

Wow, you are generous.

I set my stud limit to 110
and my young gun at 90