Lowering Ratings in a League?

[ELDoro]

Hey guys. I prefer to play in leagues that have lower ratings. Where a 5/10 is a true average rating.

I've been toying around with the creation modifiers but honestly I'm not seeing much of a difference when I generate the league. Do they not affect the beginning pool of players and only amateur players generated for seasons to come?

Any tips, experience, or anything in this area to help me out would be greatly appreciated!

[SteveP]

That depends a great deal on what you are trying to accomplish.

Statistically speaking, the distribution of talent in a major league (for example) is not a bell curve. It's roughly a ski slope. All of the "average" players are bunched at the bottom of the talent curve. Less than average players are playing in some other league.

The statistical formulas used in OOTP replicate what happens in real life leagues.

But it's possible that you have some other objective in mind.

[ELDoro]

I'm not trying to alter statistical outcomes. Just the player ratings. I've noticed especially in replay leagues of the early 90s that ratings are lower than say player ratings generated for a fictional league by OOTP.

Also what is the difference between the "Traditional OOTP Player Creation Modifiers" and the "Sabermetric Player Creation Modifiers"?

[ELDoro]

I have conducted more test sims, simming over 30 seasons.

So do the creation modifiers have no affect on the initial pool of players generated?

[OutS|der]

From the OOTP Manual

Traditional OOTP Player Creation Modifiers

OOTP has two types of player creation modifiers, or 'PCMs': traditional OOTP PCMs, and Sabermetric PCMs. Player creation modifiers allow you to customize the skills of all players created in a particular league. For example, you could use player creation modifiers to make all players created in your league extremely powerful. Most players of OOTP should never need to adjust these numbers. By default, OOTP generates realistic players in every era. However, if you wish to change the nature of the players in your leagues, read on for more information.
PCMs are set as percentages, with 1.000 being the default value. To change PCMs, increase or decrease a modifier. For example, setting Batting Contact to 1.500 will generate players who are significantly better than the default at making contact with the ball. Each modifier impacts one player rating.
Traditional OOTP PCMs affect the strength of major leagues relative to each other, in terms of the current and potential ratings of their players. For instance, if you have two major leagues in your universe, and one has the default Traditional OOTP PCM value of 1.000 for Home Run Power, while the other has a Traditional OOTP PCM value of 0.500 for Home Run Power, then Home Run Power potential and ratings in the second league will be roughly half that of the first. Traditional OOTP PCMs affect both the quality of players generated when the league is first created and the quality of new players created for that league's draft or college and high school feeder leagues.
Traditional OOTP PCMs cascade down through a league system, so that a parent league and all affiliated leagues rolling up to it share the same player creation modifiers.
Sabermetric Player Creation Modifiers

Sabermetric PCMs can be used for either major leagues or minor leagues, but they are recommended for minor league use only because of their more unpredictable results compared to Traditional OOTP PCMs. When used for minor leagues, Sabermetric PCMs affect only the quality of players generated when the league is first created. They do not affect the quality of new players created in subsequent years - that aspect is controlled solely by the PCM's used by the relevant major league. During initial league creation, the effects of minor league PCM's are cumulative with major league PCM's, so that players created for a AAA league affiliated to a major league with PCM's of 0.5 across the board will be about half as good as players created for a AAA league affiliated to a major league with PCM's of 1.0 across the board, assuming that both AAA leagues have the same minor league PCM's.
League Totals and Modifiers

League Totals and Modifiers are the final piece in modifying your league output. While player creation modifiers affect player ratings and potential, league totals and modifiers are used to directly affect the statistical output of a league. This information is most commonly used by historical players who want overall statistical results to match a specific target.
OOTP generates a league total for each category, noted in the left column. The league total acts as the basis for the calculation engine. In historical leagues, these are the real league totals from the imported year. In fictional leagues it's the major league totals from the most recently completed season. The league totals do NOT directly equate to how many of these events you will see in your league! They are simply a basis for calculation, which ensures the ratios of these events remain accurate compared to real life. Adjusting league totals is a little counterintuitive. The results in your league are inversely related to the league totals. In other words, if you increase the triples total from 1,000 to 2,000, it would actually result in FEWER triples in your league! We do not recommend adjusting your league totals directly unless you're just messing around, or you are experienced in working with our league totals!
As a more intuitive alternative, the right column contains modifiers, with a default setting of 1.000. A value of 1.000 is equivalent to modern professional baseball level. These modifiers can be used to adjust the statistical output of your league. For example, if you want 10% more home runs, instead of adjusting the home run totals, just change the home runs modifier to 1.100.
One important point to understand about the league totals and modifiers is that, unlike player creation modifiers, league totals directly affect the statistical output of the game engine. They have no impact at all on player ratings, potential, or player development. Even if you reduce your home run league total modifier to 0.150, your slugger with a 100 Power rating would still have 100 Power, and he would still hit more home runs than other players. But the numbers of home runs across the league overall would be drastically reduced.
There is also a checkbox entitled Automatically control in-game engine to match league totals (only recommended for minors). This option automatically modifies the in-game engine in a way that the stats output closely matches the entered league totals. This works fairly well, but is not a perfect statistical rendition, particularly at the lowest minor league level. It's a decent option for players who are extremely concerned about league totals looking "realistic" in the minors.



In your league the players may have been created with lower talent but ratings are relative to the league so a player would show as a 5/10 in one league but when moved to another with different talent they might now be a 2/4.
So unless you have a second major league you can't really judge the talent of a league based on it's players ratings

[ELDoro]

Thanks, somehow I skimmed over that in the manual. However, it says they affect the ratings of the initial player pool.....my tests seem to show they don't but I'll keep toying around with it.

[OutS|der]

How are you testing?
Could always sim 25 years then delete the history and totals, all initial players should mostly be gone by then

[RchW]

By my reading you can't affect ratings using PCM. If you read the manual excerpted below, PCM's just change the relative value of a given rating.

Also from another post.

I'm not trying to alter statistical outcomes. Just the player ratings. I've noticed especially in replay leagues of the early 90s that ratings are lower than say player ratings generated for a fictional league by OOTP.

Also what is the difference between the "Traditional OOTP Player Creation Modifiers" and the "Sabermetric Player Creation Modifiers"?

The players in the 90's replay league weren't created they already "existed" due to the historical statistical data. If I understand "replay" correctly no player creation would ever occur as only one season is played. If you did continue a replay league it would become fictional or historical and be bound by the parameters established by the particular league style.

For fictional leagues a long time concern has been the relative superiority of the initially created players vs subsequent years. Some fictional league OOTPer's sim a decade or two then delete history in order to level out the playing environment. I can't recall if that issue was fixed in v13.

Traditional OOTP Player Creation Modifiers

OOTP has two types of player creation modifiers, or 'PCMs': traditional OOTP PCMs, and Sabermetric PCMs. Player creation modifiers allow you to customize the skills of all players created in a particular league. For example, you could use player creation modifiers to make all players created in your league extremely powerful. Most players of OOTP should never need to adjust these numbers. By default, OOTP generates realistic players in every era. However, if you wish to change the nature of the players in your leagues, read on for more information.

PCMs are set as percentages, with 1.000 being the default value. To change PCMs, increase or decrease a modifier. For example, setting Batting Contact to 1.500 will generate players who are significantly better than the default at making contact with the ball. Each modifier impacts one player rating.

Traditional OOTP PCMs affect the strength of major leagues relative to each other, in terms of the current and potential ratings of their players. For instance, if you have two major leagues in your universe, and one has the default Traditional OOTP PCM value of 1.000 for Home Run Power, while the other has a Traditional OOTP PCM value of 0.500 for Home Run Power, then Home Run Power potential and ratings in the second league will be roughly half that of the first. Traditional OOTP PCMs affect both the quality of players generated when the league is first created and the quality of new players created for that league's draft or college and high school feeder leagues.

Traditional OOTP PCMs cascade down through a league system, so that a parent league and all affiliated leagues rolling up to it share the same player creation modifiers.
Sabermetric Player Creation Modifiers

Sabermetric PCMs can be used for either major leagues or minor leagues, but they are recommended for minor league use only because of their more unpredictable results compared to Traditional OOTP PCMs. When used for minor leagues, Sabermetric PCMs affect only the quality of players generated when the league is first created. They do not affect the quality of new players created in subsequent years - that aspect is controlled solely by the PCM's used by the relevant major league. During initial league creation, the effects of minor league PCM's are cumulative with major league PCM's, so that players created for a AAA league affiliated to a major league with PCM's of 0.5 across the board will be about half as good as players created for a AAA league affiliated to a major league with PCM's of 1.0 across the board, assuming that both AAA leagues have the same minor league PCM's.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

In your league the players may have been created with lower talent but ratings are relative to the league so a player would show as a 5/10 in one league but when moved to another with different talent they might now be a 2/4.
So unless you have a second major league you can't really judge the talent of a league based on it's players ratings

Not sure I agree. The way I read the manual it days that a player rated 5/10 in HR with a PCM of 1.5 would hit approximately 1.5 X the HR of a player rated 5/10 in HR with a PCM of 1.0.

That's why the manual warns players to be careful.

[tds787]

Originally Posted by OutS|der

How are you testing?
Could always sim 25 years then delete the history and totals, all initial players should mostly be gone by then

I think this "issue" was fixed in v. 12

[ELDoro]

Ok I see to have found a fix. I was using a world template to run these tests. It kept producing leagues where the initial players weren't affected by the modifiers.

When I scrapped running the tests with a world template NOW the initial players are affected by the modifiers.

So I have seem to found a solution to my problem.

Also seems that that issue was fixed....although another issue may be there with it not being fixed using world templates.

Good discussion and thanks for the info! One reason I love the OOTP community!