3-way tie and tiebreakers

oman19 · 05-01-2011, 02:03 AM

Hey guys quick question for everyone. In my league we had our 2nd 3-way tie in 3 years. The first time it happened it didn't invlove me so I just thought I overlooked a game when I saw only two teams play. I didn't pay to close attention. Well this time it was my team which is the Detroit Tigers, the Chicago White Sox and the Tampa Bay Rays.

Going into the final 3 game series of the year Tampa and I were both 1 game behind Chicago. Well we both took 2 outta 3 the Sox choked and we both caught them on the last day, so all 3 clubs tied.

We all finished the year 88-74 and tied for the Wildcard. So I assumed OOTP would have us have some sort of round-robin playoff. Well for some reason Tampa Bay and I were the only ones that played. I won. I proceed to the next day and low and behold the playoffs start and Chicago is left out.

Can anyone explain to me how OOTP handles 3 way ties? It would be much appreciated.

Chicagofan76 · 05-01-2011, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oman19

the Sox choked

Can anyone explain to me how OOTP handles 3 way ties? It would be much appreciated.

The White Sox dont choke, we're not the Cubs

anyway I am wondering what the head to head matchups were for TB, DET & CWS. I also would like to know for future reference if anyone has a good explanation why the Sox got left out.

oman19 · 05-01-2011, 02:21 AM

Lol I won't point to this years real life Sox bullpen as an example. I won't resort to that especially with the way my Tigers have been beat up on the past week by Seattle and Cleveland.

oman19 · 05-01-2011, 02:21 AM

I will look up the 3 teams head to head records right now for my league.

oman19 · 05-01-2011, 02:32 AM

Alright the h2h records are as follows.

DET vs CHI 8-4
DET VS TB 6-4
Win% .636

CHI VS DET 4-8
CHI VS TB 6-4
Win% .455

TB VS DET 4-6
TB VS CHI 4-6
Win% .400

oman19 · 05-01-2011, 02:34 AM

Seems to me if they did a tiebreaker by which 2 teams should of played since only 2 play it should of been me vs the White Sox. Have no clue why Tampa snuck in.

I've been looking around and can't seem to find any definite answer on the OOTP tie-breaker rules.

oman19 · 05-01-2011, 02:52 AM

Alright found a post made a while back by Le Grande Orange and the MLB rules are what I thought they were.

Teams A and B play each other.
Team C plays the winner of the A/B match up in A/B's ballpark.

I just can't find anything on how OOTP handles it or what the default rules are if you will.

DreamTeams · 05-01-2011, 02:53 AM

OOTP won't automatically schedule three way tie breakers. You'd have to set it up yourself. It works great...

A 3-way tie can be resolved in the following round-robin fashion...

A team has to lose twice before being eliminated from the tiebreaker. The tiebreaker is essentially divided into two parts. In the first part, each team plays 1 game against each of the two other teams in the tiebreaker, on consecutive days. The teams are designated as A, B, and C by lot, and then play the following schedule:

Day 1: B at A

Day 2: C at B

Day 3: A at C

If at this point any of the teams has lost twice, it is eliminated.

The remaining two teams then play again on Day 4, with the site determined by coin toss. If this game does not result in a team losing its second game, the teams play one final time on Day 5, with the visiting team from Day 4 being the home team. After this game one of the teams would have definitely lost twice and is eliminated. The other team has then won the tiebreaker.

If however none of the teams has lost twice (i.e. they all have 1-1 records) then the next step is:

Day 4: A at B -or- B at C -or- C at A

The exact matchup to be played, from the above possibilities, is determined by lot. The loser of the game would have suffered its second loss and is eliminated. On Day 5, the winner of the game from Day 4 then hosts the team which was idle on Day 4. The winner of the Day 5 game wins the tiebreaker, while the loser would have suffered its second loss and is eliminated.

So, in summary it means that a 3-way tie will result in a total of either 4 or 5 tiebreaking games being played, taking either 4 or 5 days (and consequently delaying the Championship Series or post season playoffs by that many days).

REMINDER: When you schedule your tie breaker games be sure to schedule them as regular season games as they will count toward the regular season record.

REMINDER 2: Because these are scheduled as regular season games remember to delete them from your following season's generated schedule.

Chicagofan76 · 05-01-2011, 02:56 AM

I searched through 4 pages using the search feature with Tie and ties i cant find anything but I know someone addressed this topic 2-3 months ago.

oman19 · 05-01-2011, 03:16 AM

I'm looking in the manual and can't seem to find anything about OOTP's tie-breaking method.

oman19 · 05-01-2011, 03:34 AM

Going through all the old threads that come up with my search about the OOTP tie-breaker rules. Can't find a anything definite on how OOTP handles it.

I DID find MANY LGO posts over the years with him beating the drum for it to be coded right. Some posts if I remember correctly were from 2006. I can't believe this hasn't been done.

I've been playing a few years now (bought OOTP X pretty close to release day which is when I discovered the game) and I finally found the first major thing I don't like about OOTP. (The to many 2 pitch SP's using feeders was close to being a major thing but I've learned to live with it.)

I love this game. Best text-based sim out there. Just can't believe something small like this is overlooked. Since I discovered this game I've bought both versions that have been released. Was on the fence about version 12 since I was so happy with 11 and times are tight right now. This is one of those small things if included I that would put me over the edge to purchase for sure.

Keep up the good fight LGO. You'll get the proper tie-breaker in yet and OOTP will be one more step closer to perfect.

oman19 · 05-01-2011, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamTeams

OOTP won't automatically schedule three way tie breakers. You'd have to set it up yourself. It works great...

A 3-way tie can be resolved in the following round-robin fashion...

A team has to lose twice before being eliminated from the tiebreaker. The tiebreaker is essentially divided into two parts. In the first part, each team plays 1 game against each of the two other teams in the tiebreaker, on consecutive days. The teams are designated as A, B, and C by lot, and then play the following schedule:

Day 1: B at A

Day 2: C at B

Day 3: A at C

If at this point any of the teams has lost twice, it is eliminated.

The remaining two teams then play again on Day 4, with the site determined by coin toss. If this game does not result in a team losing its second game, the teams play one final time on Day 5, with the visiting team from Day 4 being the home team. After this game one of the teams would have definitely lost twice and is eliminated. The other team has then won the tiebreaker.

If however none of the teams has lost twice (i.e. they all have 1-1 records) then the next step is:

Day 4: A at B -or- B at C -or- C at A

The exact matchup to be played, from the above possibilities, is determined by lot. The loser of the game would have suffered its second loss and is eliminated. On Day 5, the winner of the game from Day 4 then hosts the team which was idle on Day 4. The winner of the Day 5 game wins the tiebreaker, while the loser would have suffered its second loss and is eliminated.

So, in summary it means that a 3-way tie will result in a total of either 4 or 5 tiebreaking games being played, taking either 4 or 5 days (and consequently delaying the Championship Series or post season playoffs by that many days).

REMINDER: When you schedule your tie breaker games be sure to schedule them as regular season games as they will count toward the regular season record.

REMINDER 2: Because these are scheduled as regular season games remember to delete them from your following season's generated schedule.

What if you get the message the playoffs already started? Can you still schedule a regular season game if a playoff game hasn't been played but the playoff schedule is out?

Also looked all night for the way OOTP handles tiebreakers and couldn't find anything. Anyone happen to know how they decide who goes to the 2 team playoff and who gets left out?

Le Grande Orange · 05-01-2011, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oman19

Alright the h2h records are as follows.

DET vs CHI 8-4
DET VS TB 6-4
Win% .636

CHI VS DET 4-8
CHI VS TB 6-4
Win% .455

TB VS DET 4-6
TB VS CHI 4-6
Win% .400

Under current MLB rules, Detroit would get first choice of whether it wants to be club A, B, or C since it won both season series against the other two clubs. Chicago gets second choice of which club designation it wants since it beat Tampa in the season series. Tampa gets whatever designation is left after Detroit and Chicago have chosen. The playoff games are then:

Day 1: B at A
Day 2: C at A/B

The victorious club on Day 2 wins the tiebreaker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oman19

What if you get the message the playoffs already started? Can you still schedule a regular season game if a playoff game hasn't been played but the playoff schedule is out?

Not sure. I think you have to schedule the games before the regular season ends. If the schedule already shows the post-season games it's likely too late.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oman19

Anyone happen to know how they decide who goes to the 2 team playoff and who gets left out?

No one is exactly sure. It may be according to team ID number.

oman19 · 05-01-2011, 04:53 PM

Sorry feel like a newb asking this but how do you add games to your schedule. Something I've never looked into. Would like to start deciding this in real MLB style.

DreamTeams · 05-01-2011, 07:47 PM

You'll find the schedule editor here...

Game set Up / League Set Up / Edit League Schedule

oman19 · 05-03-2011, 03:04 AM

Now if i schedule games like this does it keep pushing back the start of the playoffs till I don't schedule any more regular season games?

Carplos · 05-03-2011, 09:34 AM

Yes, because it will consider the regular season to be still going.

Tony M · 05-03-2011, 10:55 AM

I could have sworn I had posted the extreme possibilities from this.

I created a test league of 2 sub leagues, 10 divisions per s-l, 10 teams per division and gave them a 2 game season (thus ensuring lots of ties for division winners and a lot of permutations for the 6 wild cards per s-l)

The season finished on the 2nd April and the various tiebreaking rounds didn't finish till September time IIRC and there were some utterly bizarre standings - one team I seem to recall finished 2-0 in the regular season and 16-4 after tiebreaks and failed to qualify because a team with a 6-0 record after tiebreaks took the division title!! I don't know why one team was subjected to 18 extra games and another to only 4. There were some teams left out of the tiebreaks altogether despite having 2-0 records IIRC...

I'm going to re-run this and show the results.

Cooleyvol · 05-03-2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carplos

Yes, because it will consider the regular season to be still going.

Not true, in my experiences. The regular season ends when the number of regular season games in the league settings is reached by all clubs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oman19

Now if i schedule games like this does it keep pushing back the start of the playoffs till I don't schedule any more regular season games?

Your postseason begins (and your ability to schedule more games ends) when all teams in the league reach the number of regular season games you have set in the league settings.

Cryomaniac · 05-03-2011, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

Not true, in my experiences. The regular season ends when the number of regular season games in the league settings is reached by all clubs.

Your postseason begins (and your ability to schedule more games ends) when all teams in the league reach the number of regular season games you have set in the league settings.

IIRC it only ends when you click "finish day" after all teams have played all their games. You can quick play all the games on the last day, but as long as you don't advance the date the season doesn't end.

05-01-2011, 02:03 AM	#1
oman19 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Metro Detroit Area Posts: 1,343	3-way tie and tiebreakers Hey guys quick question for everyone. In my league we had our 2nd 3-way tie in 3 years. The first time it happened it didn't invlove me so I just thought I overlooked a game when I saw only two teams play. I didn't pay to close attention. Well this time it was my team which is the Detroit Tigers, the Chicago White Sox and the Tampa Bay Rays. Going into the final 3 game series of the year Tampa and I were both 1 game behind Chicago. Well we both took 2 outta 3 the Sox choked and we both caught them on the last day, so all 3 clubs tied. We all finished the year 88-74 and tied for the Wildcard. So I assumed OOTP would have us have some sort of round-robin playoff. Well for some reason Tampa Bay and I were the only ones that played. I won. I proceed to the next day and low and behold the playoffs start and Chicago is left out. Can anyone explain to me how OOTP handles 3 way ties? It would be much appreciated. Last edited by oman19; 05-01-2011 at 03:25 AM.

05-01-2011, 02:52 AM	#7
oman19 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Metro Detroit Area Posts: 1,343	Alright found a post made a while back by Le Grande Orange and the MLB rules are what I thought they were. Teams A and B play each other. Team C plays the winner of the A/B match up in A/B's ballpark. I just can't find anything on how OOTP handles it or what the default rules are if you will. Last edited by oman19; 05-01-2011 at 03:00 AM.

05-01-2011, 02:53 AM	#8
DreamTeams Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 2,522	OOTP won't automatically schedule three way tie breakers. You'd have to set it up yourself. It works great... A 3-way tie can be resolved in the following round-robin fashion... A team has to lose twice before being eliminated from the tiebreaker. The tiebreaker is essentially divided into two parts. In the first part, each team plays 1 game against each of the two other teams in the tiebreaker, on consecutive days. The teams are designated as A, B, and C by lot, and then play the following schedule: Day 1: B at A Day 2: C at B Day 3: A at C If at this point any of the teams has lost twice, it is eliminated. The remaining two teams then play again on Day 4, with the site determined by coin toss. If this game does not result in a team losing its second game, the teams play one final time on Day 5, with the visiting team from Day 4 being the home team. After this game one of the teams would have definitely lost twice and is eliminated. The other team has then won the tiebreaker. If however none of the teams has lost twice (i.e. they all have 1-1 records) then the next step is: Day 4: A at B -or- B at C -or- C at A The exact matchup to be played, from the above possibilities, is determined by lot. The loser of the game would have suffered its second loss and is eliminated. On Day 5, the winner of the game from Day 4 then hosts the team which was idle on Day 4. The winner of the Day 5 game wins the tiebreaker, while the loser would have suffered its second loss and is eliminated. So, in summary it means that a 3-way tie will result in a total of either 4 or 5 tiebreaking games being played, taking either 4 or 5 days (and consequently delaying the Championship Series or post season playoffs by that many days). REMINDER: When you schedule your tie breaker games be sure to schedule them as regular season games as they will count toward the regular season record. REMINDER 2: Because these are scheduled as regular season games remember to delete them from your following season's generated schedule. __________________ Last edited by DreamTeams; 05-01-2011 at 02:56 AM.

05-01-2011, 03:34 AM	#11
oman19 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Metro Detroit Area Posts: 1,343	Going through all the old threads that come up with my search about the OOTP tie-breaker rules. Can't find a anything definite on how OOTP handles it. I DID find MANY LGO posts over the years with him beating the drum for it to be coded right. Some posts if I remember correctly were from 2006. I can't believe this hasn't been done. I've been playing a few years now (bought OOTP X pretty close to release day which is when I discovered the game) and I finally found the first major thing I don't like about OOTP. (The to many 2 pitch SP's using feeders was close to being a major thing but I've learned to live with it.) I love this game. Best text-based sim out there. Just can't believe something small like this is overlooked. Since I discovered this game I've bought both versions that have been released. Was on the fence about version 12 since I was so happy with 11 and times are tight right now. This is one of those small things if included I that would put me over the edge to purchase for sure. Keep up the good fight LGO. You'll get the proper tie-breaker in yet and OOTP will be one more step closer to perfect. Last edited by oman19; 05-01-2011 at 03:36 AM.

05-01-2011, 07:47 PM	#15
DreamTeams Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 2,522	You'll find the schedule editor here... Game set Up / League Set Up / Edit League Schedule __________________

05-01-2011, 02:21 AM	#3
oman19 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Metro Detroit Area Posts: 1,343	Lol I won't point to this years real life Sox bullpen as an example. I won't resort to that especially with the way my Tigers have been beat up on the past week by Seattle and Cleveland.

05-01-2011, 02:32 AM	#5
oman19 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Metro Detroit Area Posts: 1,343	Alright the h2h records are as follows. DET vs CHI 8-4 DET VS TB 6-4 Win% .636 CHI VS DET 4-8 CHI VS TB 6-4 Win% .455 TB VS DET 4-6 TB VS CHI 4-6 Win% .400

05-01-2011, 02:34 AM	#6
oman19 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Metro Detroit Area Posts: 1,343	Seems to me if they did a tiebreaker by which 2 teams should of played since only 2 play it should of been me vs the White Sox. Have no clue why Tampa snuck in. I've been looking around and can't seem to find any definite answer on the OOTP tie-breaker rules.

05-01-2011, 02:56 AM	#9
Chicagofan76 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Diamond, IL Posts: 6,339 Infractions: 2/2 (3)	I searched through 4 pages using the search feature with Tie and ties i cant find anything but I know someone addressed this topic 2-3 months ago.

05-01-2011, 03:16 AM	#10
oman19 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Metro Detroit Area Posts: 1,343	I'm looking in the manual and can't seem to find anything about OOTP's tie-breaking method.

05-01-2011, 04:53 PM	#14
oman19 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Metro Detroit Area Posts: 1,343	Sorry feel like a newb asking this but how do you add games to your schedule. Something I've never looked into. Would like to start deciding this in real MLB style.

05-03-2011, 03:04 AM	#16
oman19 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Metro Detroit Area Posts: 1,343	Now if i schedule games like this does it keep pushing back the start of the playoffs till I don't schedule any more regular season games?

05-03-2011, 09:34 AM	#17
Carplos Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,798 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	Yes, because it will consider the regular season to be still going.

05-03-2011, 10:55 AM	#18
Tony M Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Here Posts: 6,156	I could have sworn I had posted the extreme possibilities from this. I created a test league of 2 sub leagues, 10 divisions per s-l, 10 teams per division and gave them a 2 game season (thus ensuring lots of ties for division winners and a lot of permutations for the 6 wild cards per s-l) The season finished on the 2nd April and the various tiebreaking rounds didn't finish till September time IIRC and there were some utterly bizarre standings - one team I seem to recall finished 2-0 in the regular season and 16-4 after tiebreaks and failed to qualify because a team with a 6-0 record after tiebreaks took the division title!! I don't know why one team was subjected to 18 extra games and another to only 4. There were some teams left out of the tiebreaks altogether despite having 2-0 records IIRC... I'm going to re-run this and show the results.