Let's discuss playing stats only!

Malleus Dei · 05-18-2010, 10:23 AM

To make OOTP more challenging and to better recreate the situation faced by a real GM, I play stats only with fictional players. That is to say that I turn off player ratings and potential ratings, set the AI evaluation criteria to 0/67/22/11 and then GM purely by statistical results and scouting reports - which is what real GM's have to do, right?

Deciding who to promote is a problem - you have to go by stats and scouting and the minor league report - and so is deciding who to draft (you need a good scout!). Lineups and depth charts aren't easy and pitching assignments are sometimes a crapshoot. But then I wanted a harder game with more realism, and that's just what playing stats only gives me.

I know that some of you out there play stats only because over the years I converted some of you over and I'm sure that some of you no doubt found the path to stats only on your own. So...

How do you play?

How much fun are you having? (I'm having a ton!)

What settings do you use?

What problems do you have?

What should we suggest to Markus that would make make stats-only play better in OOTP 12?

Isura · 05-18-2010, 11:44 AM

I don't play stats only because it's too tedious and reduces realism. I actually also think that stats only makes the game "easier" since you pay more attention to performance. I turn off scouting and use 1-10 ratings. That gives me enough fog of war.

I want the ability to customize stats on the main profile page.

Dave Hansen · 05-18-2010, 12:08 PM

MLB...Fictional...Present Day.

Scouting Accuracy: Low

My Team's Scout: Decent only (house rule)

Current: OFF

Potential:1-5

Other:1-5

AI OPTIONS: 60% curent..30% last year...10% 2 years.

The above gives me the "ideal" fog of war in which to use stats and scouting reports and not have a huge advantage over the AI.

PS: When I START a new league with an inagural draft, I turn scouting OFF and all ratings set 1-20.

Cooleyvol · 05-18-2010, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isura

I don't play stats only because it's too tedious and reduces realism. I actually also think that stats only makes the game "easier" since you pay more attention to performance. I turn off scouting and use 1-10 ratings. That gives me enough fog of war.

I want the ability to customize stats on the main profile page.

Stats only reduces realism?

Isura · 05-18-2010, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

Stats only reduces realism?

Well real managers and scounts don't just look at stats. They also use qualitative observations, which ratings mimic in ootp. I set the scale very low so there is enough gray area.

Nutlaw · 05-18-2010, 12:56 PM

Right, while this is a fun way to play, one doesn't find a whole bunch of sabremetric major league managers out there. Mathematicians may not have much use for scouted ratings, but major league organizations certainly do. That 2-8 scale isn't just for show.

The key in playing this mode is to set the AI not to value ratings either, for sure.

Scoman · 05-18-2010, 01:12 PM

I think if you want the most realistic challenge,stats only is the way to go.

thbroman · 05-18-2010, 03:39 PM

Can I put in a word for a mixed approach? When deciding on whom to promote in my minor-league system, I depend on a mix of stats and the minor-league system report. I rarely use ratings, especially their potential, which seldom proves very useful!

On the other hand, when looking at major-league players, I go with both stats and ratings. The numbers represented by the ratings are not really that much of a cheat, IMO. A good scout can tell whether a batter is a hacker, whether he tends to make good contact, and whether he can hit with power. Moreover, stats and ratings don't really diverge that much at the major-league level, in my experience. But when they do, I go with stats. A pitcher whose ratings are only 9 or 10 in most categories, but who nevertheless can pitch for a 3.50 ERA, is one I want.

Where I find I depend on ratings most is in the amateur draft. It's not that they're reliable predictors of who is going to make it to the bigs (see above!), but they are useful for filtering a large number of players rapidly. I find that I lack the patience to study every player in the draft, examine his high-school or college record against the quality of the competition, and then make my draft decisions on the basis of that study.

ondemonitors · 05-18-2010, 04:03 PM

It was MD that got me on the stats only kick in the first place. Fictional universe, Major and Minor League Teams, started in 1980, quick simmed till 2000, and took over a team as GM only. Basing this team on several factors. Finances, records, past performance over 5 seasons or so. I just finished a quik-sim and took the Oakland GM job.

To me this is the way to go for a tough challenge. The only issue I have with it is exacty what to put the AI eval settings at. At the moment I'm 35-30-30-5, but I'm sure this is off a bit. I've read where we're not sure that the AI see's ratings in stats based so whether or not to use them in evaluations is something I'm still working on.

No house rules on coaches or scouts, both are turned on. Trading is at very low/hard/neutral. Even with a "low" setting, I think the teams make way too many trades, so I turned that down.

As far as fun, this is analysis and study at it's best. The GM reports are good, but they still leave you wondering what translates in to performance on the field, especially with the new defensive engine/stats. And as far as Markus, stats only, and version 12..hmmm still gotta think about that one.

mjj55409 · 05-18-2010, 04:18 PM

Here's how I setup most of my solo leagues:

Actual ratings - off
Potential ratings - on (either a 1-10 or 2-8 scale)
Other ratings - on (1-5 scale)

AI evaluation - 10/40/30/20

This way, you have a guy rated a potential 10 in contact. He should be a good hitter right? Well, all the scouts think he has the potential, but until he has the stats the back it up, you never know. The other ratings will give you enough information to act (I would want defense rated 4 or 5), but within the group of 5-rated 2B, for example, you would have a pretty wide spread in actual ability.

toxicavenger74 · 05-18-2010, 04:45 PM

The only way I will play is with stats only. There is much more immersion, I won't be able to tell that a player has declined until I see it in his stats.

While it takes longer, I feel I have much more ownership over the league, universe.

I would agree that for me it is a struggle as to where to set the AI evaluation. To make the game harder I believe that it should be favored on ratings. This way the AI is making decision on actual drop-offs/increases while I am making decsions after the fact on results. This decreases my advantage.

1998 Yankees · 05-18-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

To make OOTP more challenging and to better recreate the situation faced by a real GM, I play stats only with fictional players. That is to say that I turn off player ratings and potential ratings, set the AI evaluation criteria to 0/67/22/11 and then GM purely by statistical results and scouting reports - which is what real GM's have to do, right?

Deciding who to promote is a problem - you have to go by stats and scouting and the minor league report - and so is deciding who to draft (you need a good scout!). Lineups and depth charts aren't easy and pitching assignments are sometimes a crapshoot. But then I wanted a harder game with more realism, and that's just what playing stats only gives me.

I know that some of you out there play stats only because over the years I converted some of you over and I'm sure that some of you no doubt found the path to stats only on your own. So...

How do you play?

How much fun are you having? (I'm having a ton!)

What settings do you use?

What problems do you have?

What should we suggest to Markus that would make make stats-only play better in OOTP 12?

MD, I remember you advocating for this style of play a while back, and I was tempted. But I went scampering back to ratings only because of the problem with judging draft talent.

I'm still playing a league in OOTP 10 with ratings on, but when I begin OOTP 11 and a new league, it will be stats only because OOTP 11 introduced the HS and college stats without feeder leagues feature, correct? If so, that will finally bring me over to the stats only side.

So if that is true, draftee stats regardless of feeder leagues, how bad can draft-picking be now? I mean, potential ratings are a crapshoot, anyway. Instead of looking at potential "stuff," I can see a high K/9inn number and spot a potential closer, no?

I seek the greater challenge that you are talking about. I love OOTP X, but, man, I kick butt regularly (latest season: 114-40) because I know that game inside and out: look for high potentials AND big numbers for intelligence and work ethic. You're right about self-restraint for realism (as I read you commenting elsewhere), but having to do that takes just an edge off the enjoyment for me.

1998 Yankees · 05-18-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoman

I think if you want the most realistic challenge,stats only is the way to go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxicavenger74

The only way I will play is with stats only. There is much more immersion, I won't be able to tell that a player has declined until I see it in his stats.

While it takes longer, I feel I have much more ownership over the league, universe.

I would agree that for me it is a struggle as to where to set the AI evaluation. To make the game harder I believe that it should be favored on ratings. This way the AI is making decision on actual drop-offs/increases while I am making decsions after the fact on results. This decreases my advantage.

I'm bookmarking this thread. Lotsa good stuff in this one.

1998 Yankees · 05-18-2010, 05:03 PM

Triola, those draftee HS and college stats, they have *something* to do with actual talent, I hope? I mean, they're not just window dressing? Not that they should be guarantors, no, but "in the ballpark" predictors of talent, so to speak?

ondemonitors · 05-18-2010, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxicavenger74

I would agree that for me it is a struggle as to where to set the AI evaluation. To make the game harder I believe that it should be favored on ratings. This way the AI is making decision on actual drop-offs/increases while I am making decsions after the fact on results. This decreases my advantage.

I have to agree with both your dilemma, and your opinion. It's my thinking, for what that's worth

, that the only person who can't see the ratings in the game setup is the human GM. If that's the case, then yes, giving the AI some points in the ratings eval would give them a slight advantage, maybe even more than just slight.

atlbrave1 · 05-18-2010, 05:25 PM

I play in a similar style to other mentioned above. I usually start a fresh league (usually current MLB format or a 26 team 80's format), sim x amount of years (depends how patient I am feeling), then take a struggling franchise and try and turn it around.

I recently started using the method mentioned on the forums here: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...-more-fun.html

Except that I didn't do any drafting, but rather set up the finances to be more like current day, and then let the computer redraft.

I keep the AI evaluation at the default settings.

I do keep Other ratings visible (I may turn this off w/ the new defensive metrics, but old habits are hard to break) -- while I don't need the speed ratings, I do like to know the defensive ratings.

As far as the draft, I do change the settings to see potential ratings (2 - 8 scale) during the draft, as I find that a bit more realistic, and less time consuming (i.e. I don't want to read 100 scouting reports and remember who my scout likes).

I've been playing this way for at least the past 3 versions, if not more, and haven't played w/ ratings on since then. Best way for me to enjoy the game.

Malleus Dei · 05-18-2010, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

MD, I remember you advocating for this style of play a while back, and I was tempted. But I went scampering back to ratings only because of the problem with judging draft talent.

Man up and take the plunge! You won't go back.

Biggio509 · 05-18-2010, 05:43 PM

I use mostly stats but i still look at ratings some. IMO, they tell me the things a scout would that do not make it into the scouting report, eg. I think this guy is still a long way from potential or your guy hitting .400 in rookie league is in the scouts opinion is as good as he ever will be. So I think the ratings tell something that the reports don't that scouts would report on.

Unless I am starting a fictional league from scratch and jump right in so there are no stats, ratings only play a small role for me but I think they play a role. If you use scouting ratings are only what a scout thinks the guy should do or should be doing. So you have to look at stats mostly anyway. I think the numbers are little easier to judge than sometimes vague text. With scouting I don't trust the fact my scout says one guy has a CH of 8/20 and another 9/20 anyway.

Nugget699 · 05-18-2010, 07:03 PM

I play a fictional league and mainly just look at stats. I haven't disabled ratings, but because I don't really know what I'm looking for in a player I tend to just rely on stats to give me an idea of the sort of player I'm looking at.

The only ratings I use are Base Stealing and Speed.

GmOfTheYear · 05-18-2010, 07:08 PM

My only struggle with stats only is how do I know who is a good defensive player in the generated drafts when there are no fielding stats? What do you guys do to get past that?

05-18-2010, 04:03 PM	#9
ondemonitors Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: The Isle of Long Posts: 92	It was MD that got me on the stats only kick in the first place. Fictional universe, Major and Minor League Teams, started in 1980, quick simmed till 2000, and took over a team as GM only. Basing this team on several factors. Finances, records, past performance over 5 seasons or so. I just finished a quik-sim and took the Oakland GM job. To me this is the way to go for a tough challenge. The only issue I have with it is exacty what to put the AI eval settings at. At the moment I'm 35-30-30-5, but I'm sure this is off a bit. I've read where we're not sure that the AI see's ratings in stats based so whether or not to use them in evaluations is something I'm still working on. No house rules on coaches or scouts, both are turned on. Trading is at very low/hard/neutral. Even with a "low" setting, I think the teams make way too many trades, so I turned that down. As far as fun, this is analysis and study at it's best. The GM reports are good, but they still leave you wondering what translates in to performance on the field, especially with the new defensive engine/stats. And as far as Markus, stats only, and version 12..hmmm still gotta think about that one. __________________ Wondering if I'm going to see my team win the World Series before I die

05-18-2010, 04:18 PM	#10
mjj55409 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,166	Here's how I setup most of my solo leagues: Actual ratings - off Potential ratings - on (either a 1-10 or 2-8 scale) Other ratings - on (1-5 scale) AI evaluation - 10/40/30/20 This way, you have a guy rated a potential 10 in contact. He should be a good hitter right? Well, all the scouts think he has the potential, but until he has the stats the back it up, you never know. The other ratings will give you enough information to act (I would want defense rated 4 or 5), but within the group of 5-rated 2B, for example, you would have a pretty wide spread in actual ability. __________________ FABL -- Chicago Chiefs

05-18-2010, 11:44 AM	#2
Isura Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 361	I don't play stats only because it's too tedious and reduces realism. I actually also think that stats only makes the game "easier" since you pay more attention to performance. I turn off scouting and use 1-10 ratings. That gives me enough fog of war. I want the ability to customize stats on the main profile page.

05-18-2010, 12:08 PM	#3
Dave Hansen Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 345	MLB...Fictional...Present Day. Scouting Accuracy: Low My Team's Scout: Decent only (house rule) Current: OFF Potential:1-5 Other:1-5 AI OPTIONS: 60% curent..30% last year...10% 2 years. The above gives me the "ideal" fog of war in which to use stats and scouting reports and not have a huge advantage over the AI. PS: When I START a new league with an inagural draft, I turn scouting OFF and all ratings set 1-20.

05-18-2010, 12:56 PM	#6
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	Right, while this is a fun way to play, one doesn't find a whole bunch of sabremetric major league managers out there. Mathematicians may not have much use for scouted ratings, but major league organizations certainly do. That 2-8 scale isn't just for show. The key in playing this mode is to set the AI not to value ratings either, for sure.

05-18-2010, 01:12 PM	#7
Scoman All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: heath ohio Posts: 1,831	I think if you want the most realistic challenge,stats only is the way to go.

05-18-2010, 03:39 PM	#8
thbroman All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 867	Can I put in a word for a mixed approach? When deciding on whom to promote in my minor-league system, I depend on a mix of stats and the minor-league system report. I rarely use ratings, especially their potential, which seldom proves very useful! On the other hand, when looking at major-league players, I go with both stats and ratings. The numbers represented by the ratings are not really that much of a cheat, IMO. A good scout can tell whether a batter is a hacker, whether he tends to make good contact, and whether he can hit with power. Moreover, stats and ratings don't really diverge that much at the major-league level, in my experience. But when they do, I go with stats. A pitcher whose ratings are only 9 or 10 in most categories, but who nevertheless can pitch for a 3.50 ERA, is one I want. Where I find I depend on ratings most is in the amateur draft. It's not that they're reliable predictors of who is going to make it to the bigs (see above!), but they are useful for filtering a large number of players rapidly. I find that I lack the patience to study every player in the draft, examine his high-school or college record against the quality of the competition, and then make my draft decisions on the basis of that study.

05-18-2010, 04:45 PM	#11
toxicavenger74 All Star Reserve Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 553	The only way I will play is with stats only. There is much more immersion, I won't be able to tell that a player has declined until I see it in his stats. While it takes longer, I feel I have much more ownership over the league, universe. I would agree that for me it is a struggle as to where to set the AI evaluation. To make the game harder I believe that it should be favored on ratings. This way the AI is making decision on actual drop-offs/increases while I am making decsions after the fact on results. This decreases my advantage.

05-18-2010, 05:03 PM	#14
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	Triola, those draftee HS and college stats, they have something to do with actual talent, I hope? I mean, they're not just window dressing? Not that they should be guarantors, no, but "in the ballpark" predictors of talent, so to speak?

05-18-2010, 05:25 PM	#16
atlbrave1 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 299	I play in a similar style to other mentioned above. I usually start a fresh league (usually current MLB format or a 26 team 80's format), sim x amount of years (depends how patient I am feeling), then take a struggling franchise and try and turn it around. I recently started using the method mentioned on the forums here: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...-more-fun.html Except that I didn't do any drafting, but rather set up the finances to be more like current day, and then let the computer redraft. I keep the AI evaluation at the default settings. I do keep Other ratings visible (I may turn this off w/ the new defensive metrics, but old habits are hard to break) -- while I don't need the speed ratings, I do like to know the defensive ratings. As far as the draft, I do change the settings to see potential ratings (2 - 8 scale) during the draft, as I find that a bit more realistic, and less time consuming (i.e. I don't want to read 100 scouting reports and remember who my scout likes). I've been playing this way for at least the past 3 versions, if not more, and haven't played w/ ratings on since then. Best way for me to enjoy the game.

05-18-2010, 05:43 PM	#18
Biggio509 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,027	I use mostly stats but i still look at ratings some. IMO, they tell me the things a scout would that do not make it into the scouting report, eg. I think this guy is still a long way from potential or your guy hitting .400 in rookie league is in the scouts opinion is as good as he ever will be. So I think the ratings tell something that the reports don't that scouts would report on. Unless I am starting a fictional league from scratch and jump right in so there are no stats, ratings only play a small role for me but I think they play a role. If you use scouting ratings are only what a scout thinks the guy should do or should be doing. So you have to look at stats mostly anyway. I think the numbers are little easier to judge than sometimes vague text. With scouting I don't trust the fact my scout says one guy has a CH of 8/20 and another 9/20 anyway.

05-18-2010, 07:03 PM	#19
Nugget699 Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Sydney Posts: 444	I play a fictional league and mainly just look at stats. I haven't disabled ratings, but because I don't really know what I'm looking for in a player I tend to just rely on stats to give me an idea of the sort of player I'm looking at. The only ratings I use are Base Stealing and Speed.

05-18-2010, 07:08 PM	#20
GmOfTheYear Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 402	My only struggle with stats only is how do I know who is a good defensive player in the generated drafts when there are no fielding stats? What do you guys do to get past that?