Will OOTP Ever Support More Than Two Subleagues?

Charlie Hough · 04-26-2010, 11:19 PM

I wanted to set up a game where the Continental League, which was a proposed third major league, actually became a reality in 1961 as originally planned.

Unfortunately, OOTP does not allow more than two subleagues, so I can't add a third one and then conduct the necessary expansion.

Will we ever get the ability to work with more than two subleagues in OOTP, or this a feature that simply is not feasible?

rig99 · 04-26-2010, 11:44 PM

I saw a really nice proposal on here about changing the whole structure of leagues to where you have associations with leagues and the guy thought of how the different associations interacted with each other and everything. I really hope that gets implemented. It would make things so much more realistic.

Edit: here it is http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post2908474

Eckstein 4 Prez · 04-26-2010, 11:48 PM

Yeah, I love cephasjames' suggestion there.

Le Grande Orange · 04-26-2010, 11:52 PM

Say it with me: league associations... you want to see league associations implemented.

With that, you'd just create as many separate leagues as you want in your universe. If you want to have some of them grouped together, you put them into an association which allows certain kinds of interaction between those leagues. Subleagues would remain, but renamed conferences and used within a league for setting up conference structures such as that used by the NBA, NFL, and NHL.

As for your 1961 scenario. there is the question of how the World Series would have worked with three leagues. The idea of a wild card qualifier had not really been invented yet, and would have been anathema to the major league owners at that time even if it had. So you'd be left with three league winners but only two World Series berths. There was a proposal by Branch Rickey that would have involved a three-way World Series. I think I have onhand the TSN article where the idea was suggested...

Le Grande Orange · 04-27-2010, 12:09 AM

I found the article. I thought it was in The Sporting News, but it was actually published in the August 23, 1959, issue of The New York Times.

The article recounts Rickey saying that the Continental League would start in 1961, and after two seasons, would then be strong enough to meet the AL and NL representatives in the 1963 World Series. Quoting from the article:

Quote:

"It's October, 1963. The Yankees, let us assume, win the American League pennant, the Chicago Cubs prevail in the National League and the Houston Continentals win in our league. The series opens at Yankee Stadium with New York playing the Cubs." ...

Game No. 2—New York vs. Houston at the Stadium.
Game No. 3—Chicago vs. New York at Chicago.
Game No. 4—Chicago vs. Houston at Chicago.
Game No. 5—Houston vs. New York at Houston.
Game No. 6—Houston vs. Chicago at Houston. ...

"The team that loses four games first will be the first eliminated, but just think of it. Each team will play two series games at home before it can be eliminated. The others will continue on until one wins four games.

"I figured out this plan mathematically and it would be impossible for the series to be decided in less than eight games or more than eleven."

darkcloud4579 · 04-27-2010, 12:21 AM

That's a fascinating proposal and would certainly be interesting to have seen.

Linenoise · 04-27-2010, 01:35 AM

Three leagues makes my traditionalist head spin!
The more sensible way to do three leagues, imo, would be to use relegation and promotions like they do in Soccer (Football for you Euros :P ).

bobdenverscat · 04-27-2010, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linenoise

Three leagues makes my traditionalist head spin!
The more sensible way to do three leagues, imo, would be to use relegation and promotions like they do in Soccer (Football for you Euros :P ).

Second this here. Been working on a Promo league for a while and I don't know that I'll ever get the set-up good enough to play it out. This would certainly make my life easier.

Seems like it would beef up Historical play as well. What if you threw sub-league contracts into the mix. Sub-leagues could break away or join leagues who would compete for the best sub-leagues to make more money, bring in more fans..etc.

Cryomaniac · 04-27-2010, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkcloud4579

That's a fascinating proposal and would certainly be interesting to have seen.

Definitely. It would have been cool to read about (since I wasn't born lol).

I for one hope LGO's league association idea gets put in OOTP12.

struggles_mightily · 04-27-2010, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linenoise

Three leagues makes my traditionalist head spin!
The more sensible way to do three leagues, imo, would be to use relegation and promotions like they do in Soccer (Football for you Euros :P ).

Damn traditionalists and their unrelenting advocacy for promotion and relegation...

Charlie Hough · 04-27-2010, 06:21 PM

The reality is that this is not about tradition. The Continental League was actually taking shape, and it is what forced MLB to expand in 1961 and 1962. The MLB owners were adamantly opposed to the idea of adding a third major league, but the Continental League had some strong backing in terms of finances and cities. And it was William Shea (of Shea Stadium fame) who was leading the entire effort as the would-be owner of the Continental League franchise in New York.

But once the National League agreed to offer Shea an MLB expansion franchise in New York, Shea abandoned his role as the leader of the fledgling CL, and the rest was history. However, if Shea hadn't been offered an expansion team, the CL may have become a reality and may have scared MLB owners into accepting it as a third major league. The CL was heading into major markets where it may have drawn considerable attendance, media ratings, and profits.

In the end, I believe that seven of the eight proposed CL cities eventually got MLB franchises, although it took Denver until 1993 to get a team when the Rockies joined the National League. I think Buffalo was the only proposed CL city that never ended up with a major league franchise.

04-26-2010, 11:19 PM	#1
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,644	Will OOTP Ever Support More Than Two Subleagues? I wanted to set up a game where the Continental League, which was a proposed third major league, actually became a reality in 1961 as originally planned. Unfortunately, OOTP does not allow more than two subleagues, so I can't add a third one and then conduct the necessary expansion. Will we ever get the ability to work with more than two subleagues in OOTP, or this a feature that simply is not feasible?

04-26-2010, 11:44 PM	#2
rig99 Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 19	I saw a really nice proposal on here about changing the whole structure of leagues to where you have associations with leagues and the guy thought of how the different associations interacted with each other and everything. I really hope that gets implemented. It would make things so much more realistic. Edit: here it is http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post2908474 Last edited by rig99; 04-26-2010 at 11:46 PM.

04-26-2010, 11:48 PM	#3
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,358	Yeah, I love cephasjames' suggestion there. __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.

04-26-2010, 11:52 PM	#4
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	Say it with me: league associations... you want to see league associations implemented. With that, you'd just create as many separate leagues as you want in your universe. If you want to have some of them grouped together, you put them into an association which allows certain kinds of interaction between those leagues. Subleagues would remain, but renamed conferences and used within a league for setting up conference structures such as that used by the NBA, NFL, and NHL. As for your 1961 scenario. there is the question of how the World Series would have worked with three leagues. The idea of a wild card qualifier had not really been invented yet, and would have been anathema to the major league owners at that time even if it had. So you'd be left with three league winners but only two World Series berths. There was a proposal by Branch Rickey that would have involved a three-way World Series. I think I have onhand the TSN article where the idea was suggested...

04-27-2010, 12:21 AM	#6
darkcloud4579 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 8,709	That's a fascinating proposal and would certainly be interesting to have seen.

04-27-2010, 01:35 AM	#7
Linenoise Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 121	Three leagues makes my traditionalist head spin! The more sensible way to do three leagues, imo, would be to use relegation and promotions like they do in Soccer (Football for you Euros :P ).

04-27-2010, 06:21 PM	#11
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,644	The reality is that this is not about tradition. The Continental League was actually taking shape, and it is what forced MLB to expand in 1961 and 1962. The MLB owners were adamantly opposed to the idea of adding a third major league, but the Continental League had some strong backing in terms of finances and cities. And it was William Shea (of Shea Stadium fame) who was leading the entire effort as the would-be owner of the Continental League franchise in New York. But once the National League agreed to offer Shea an MLB expansion franchise in New York, Shea abandoned his role as the leader of the fledgling CL, and the rest was history. However, if Shea hadn't been offered an expansion team, the CL may have become a reality and may have scared MLB owners into accepting it as a third major league. The CL was heading into major markets where it may have drawn considerable attendance, media ratings, and profits. In the end, I believe that seven of the eight proposed CL cities eventually got MLB franchises, although it took Denver until 1993 to get a team when the Rockies joined the National League. I think Buffalo was the only proposed CL city that never ended up with a major league franchise.