Replaying a Season with End of Season Rosters

Charlie Hough · 01-09-2010, 07:32 PM

In many other computer baseball sims, the team rosters for a given season are based on the end of season organizational roster. In other words, a player who was traded in mid-season will appear on the roster of the team to which he was traded, and his full season stats are combined into a single player file and ratings set.

Is there a way to replay a historical season in OOTP but with the end of season rosters? The game seems to use the rosters from the start of the season by default.

TribeFanInNC · 01-09-2010, 07:35 PM

No, there is not automatic way to do it. You'd have to make the transactions manually.

Charlie Hough · 01-10-2010, 11:53 AM

Well, for the record then, I'd like to see an option added to OOTP so the human commissioner can choose to have the rosters imported and set up based on end of season rosters. Hopefully I can pass along the suggestion in the appropriate forum.

Bluenoser · 01-10-2010, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

Well, for the record then, I'd like to see an option added to OOTP so the human commissioner can choose to have the rosters imported and set up based on end of season rosters. Hopefully I can pass along the suggestion in the appropriate forum.

Your best bet is to download one of the roster sets available from Mods and update it yourself. OOTP ships with a fairly accurate, fairly being the key word, set, but it doesn't get updated after release. It's a lot of work and OOTP Developments does not have the staff.

Also, I'm not sure I follow what you're asking for. Are you saying you want to run an historical season, say 1945, starting in Jan 45 with rosters the way they were in Oct 45?

Charlie Hough · 01-10-2010, 12:58 PM

Yes, that's what I'm saying. It might seem odd, but this is down to personal preference, and it's something that I'm used to with other baseball sims. But let me also explain how starting with the pre-season rosters can sometimes imbalance a league.

There are always cases where trades happened early in a season, and a player who only played in a few games for one team ends up playing the vast majority of the season with his second team. If the rosters are based on pre-season, then that second team can be left with gaping holes in its roster and can be at a huge competitive disadvantage.

The 1962 Houston Colt .45s are a perfect example because they picked up several key players from other clubs after the season began. Without those players, they're missing their best reliever, one of their starting outfielders, and a couple of other players.

Now, we could also say the same in reverse and say that some clubs who traded away quality players may be short on talent if we use the end of the season rosters. But I don't think this was as much of a factor before free agency.

It was pretty rare for teams to trade away prominent star players or important veterans in mid-season or at the trade deadline before free agency. Now we see it happen all the time because of expiring contracts. In fact, when you look at lists of the biggest deadline deals or worst in history, very few are from before the free agency area. About 80% are from the 1970s onward. So if I'm going to replay the 1962 season, I would expect there to be many more cases of teams being short-changed by starting with pre-season rosters than there would be if I used end of season rosters.

pstrickert · 01-10-2010, 01:11 PM

Markus could allow us to import a file with real-life transactions. But I don't see that happening. So, we probably have no choice but to make the roster changes manually. I sometimes like to create World Series matchups. It is imperative to get Red Schoendienst on the '57 Braves roster. He made a big difference for the Braves after they traded for him mid-season. What would a '57 World Series replay be without RS at 2B for Milwaukee?

Bluenoser · 01-10-2010, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

Yes, that's what I'm saying. It might seem odd, but this is down to personal preference, and it's something that I'm used to with other baseball sims. But let me also explain how starting with the pre-season rosters can sometimes imbalance a league.

There are always cases where trades happened early in a season, and a player who only played in a few games for one team ends up playing the vast majority of the season with his second team. If the rosters are based on pre-season, then that second team can be left with gaping holes in its roster and can be at a huge competitive disadvantage.

The 1962 Houston Colt .45s are a perfect example because they picked up several key players from other clubs after the season began. Without those players, they're missing their best reliever, one of their starting outfielders, and a couple of other players.

Now, we could also say the same in reverse and say that some clubs who traded away quality players may be short on talent if we use the end of the season rosters. But I don't think this was as much of a factor before free agency.

It was pretty rare for teams to trade away prominent star players or important veterans in mid-season or at the trade deadline before free agency. Now we see it happen all the time because of expiring contracts. In fact, when you look at lists of the biggest deadline deals or worst in history, very few are from before the free agency area. About 80% are from the 1970s onward. So if I'm going to replay the 1962 season, I would expect there to be many more cases of teams being short-changed by starting with pre-season rosters than there would be if I used end of season rosters.

Well, two questions from me.

1. If you're looking for exact real rosters as they were, wouldn't you want the transactions to happen when they did irl? I mean why have a guy on a teams roster in Spring Training if he wasn't traded there until May or Jun or Jul?

2. What other baseball sims come with rosters like that?

plannine · 01-10-2010, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceM

2. What other baseball sims come with rosters like that?

Almost all the Computer Baseball Games use last day of season rosters. (APBA, Strat, Baseball Replay, Statis-pro and so on), since you are recreating the past season. (some may create a separate player based on performance with each team). Many of these computer games have a 40+ year history as a card & dice game. Can't say that for most of the current games

.

jduteau · 01-12-2010, 08:42 PM

Actually, I'm not so sure that you're correct about using last day of season rosters. Replay Baseball and Diamond Mind and APBA's BBW all used first day of season rosters and included enough players to allow you to use real-life transactions.

Charlie Hough · 01-12-2010, 10:30 PM

It depends on the game. I know I've played quite a number of different baseball sims since the mid-1980s, and many used the end of season rosters. I never really played APBA baseball, but I know some of their other sports sims provided "split" players so there would be one player entry with one set of stats for his first team, and then another for his second team. But that didn't work for online leagues, so people created custom files that combined multiple versions of a player into one.

Anyway, there are different methods to going about it, but end of season rosters seemed to be the norm with most games I've played.

Some of this points to the potential for OOTP to be divided into two versions. One could be a fictional career style sim, which could also do historical career-style games. That's what it is now. The other version could be a historical replay engine that would take a more season-by-season approach and serve as a more traditional replay sim like Strat or Diamond Mind. The big difference for OOTP could be that it uses the Lahman database and allows the user to configure league rules, league totals, etc. So in that way it could do many things that those other sims can't achieve.

plannine · 01-12-2010, 10:41 PM

in APBA, With the latest game disk (came out a few weeks ago) and the card set all these fine fine players are on the Tigers.
Granderson, Polanco, Huff, Guillen, Ordonez
Cabrera Raburn Inge Laird Everett
Santiago Thomas Verlander Jackson
Porcello Washburn Galarraga Rodney
Seay Lyon Avila Larish Thames
Kelly Willis Perry Miner Ni
Zumaya Robertson

Many of them are now gone.......and if they somehow manage to get traded back before the last day of this (the 2010) season, it (as far as the game is concerned) is like they never left.

Josh Anderson who started the 2009 season with the Tigers is on Kansas City's roster for the 2010 (2009 season) season disk.

01-09-2010, 07:32 PM	#1
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,644	Replaying a Season with End of Season Rosters In many other computer baseball sims, the team rosters for a given season are based on the end of season organizational roster. In other words, a player who was traded in mid-season will appear on the roster of the team to which he was traded, and his full season stats are combined into a single player file and ratings set. Is there a way to replay a historical season in OOTP but with the end of season rosters? The game seems to use the rosters from the start of the season by default.

01-12-2010, 10:41 PM	#11
plannine All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 572	in APBA, With the latest game disk (came out a few weeks ago) and the card set all these fine fine players are on the Tigers. Granderson, Polanco, Huff, Guillen, Ordonez Cabrera Raburn Inge Laird Everett Santiago Thomas Verlander Jackson Porcello Washburn Galarraga Rodney Seay Lyon Avila Larish Thames Kelly Willis Perry Miner Ni Zumaya Robertson Many of them are now gone.......and if they somehow manage to get traded back before the last day of this (the 2010) season, it (as far as the game is concerned) is like they never left. Josh Anderson who started the 2009 season with the Tigers is on Kansas City's roster for the 2010 (2009 season) season disk. __________________ Good pitching will always stop good hitting and vice-versa - Casey Stengel Last edited by plannine; 01-13-2010 at 03:14 PM.

01-09-2010, 07:35 PM	#2
TribeFanInNC Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,019	No, there is not automatic way to do it. You'd have to make the transactions manually.

01-10-2010, 11:53 AM	#3
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,644	Well, for the record then, I'd like to see an option added to OOTP so the human commissioner can choose to have the rosters imported and set up based on end of season rosters. Hopefully I can pass along the suggestion in the appropriate forum.

01-10-2010, 12:58 PM	#5
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,644	Yes, that's what I'm saying. It might seem odd, but this is down to personal preference, and it's something that I'm used to with other baseball sims. But let me also explain how starting with the pre-season rosters can sometimes imbalance a league. There are always cases where trades happened early in a season, and a player who only played in a few games for one team ends up playing the vast majority of the season with his second team. If the rosters are based on pre-season, then that second team can be left with gaping holes in its roster and can be at a huge competitive disadvantage. The 1962 Houston Colt .45s are a perfect example because they picked up several key players from other clubs after the season began. Without those players, they're missing their best reliever, one of their starting outfielders, and a couple of other players. Now, we could also say the same in reverse and say that some clubs who traded away quality players may be short on talent if we use the end of the season rosters. But I don't think this was as much of a factor before free agency. It was pretty rare for teams to trade away prominent star players or important veterans in mid-season or at the trade deadline before free agency. Now we see it happen all the time because of expiring contracts. In fact, when you look at lists of the biggest deadline deals or worst in history, very few are from before the free agency area. About 80% are from the 1970s onward. So if I'm going to replay the 1962 season, I would expect there to be many more cases of teams being short-changed by starting with pre-season rosters than there would be if I used end of season rosters.

01-10-2010, 01:11 PM	#6
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 17,007	Markus could allow us to import a file with real-life transactions. But I don't see that happening. So, we probably have no choice but to make the roster changes manually. I sometimes like to create World Series matchups. It is imperative to get Red Schoendienst on the '57 Braves roster. He made a big difference for the Braves after they traded for him mid-season. What would a '57 World Series replay be without RS at 2B for Milwaukee?

01-12-2010, 08:42 PM	#9
jduteau Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 166	Actually, I'm not so sure that you're correct about using last day of season rosters. Replay Baseball and Diamond Mind and APBA's BBW all used first day of season rosters and included enough players to allow you to use real-life transactions.

01-12-2010, 10:30 PM	#10
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,644	It depends on the game. I know I've played quite a number of different baseball sims since the mid-1980s, and many used the end of season rosters. I never really played APBA baseball, but I know some of their other sports sims provided "split" players so there would be one player entry with one set of stats for his first team, and then another for his second team. But that didn't work for online leagues, so people created custom files that combined multiple versions of a player into one. Anyway, there are different methods to going about it, but end of season rosters seemed to be the norm with most games I've played. Some of this points to the potential for OOTP to be divided into two versions. One could be a fictional career style sim, which could also do historical career-style games. That's what it is now. The other version could be a historical replay engine that would take a more season-by-season approach and serve as a more traditional replay sim like Strat or Diamond Mind. The big difference for OOTP could be that it uses the Lahman database and allows the user to configure league rules, league totals, etc. So in that way it could do many things that those other sims can't achieve.