Is there a FAQ for how to use databases?

Curtis · 01-28-2009, 07:24 AM

I just downloaded the Spritze 2008 db, and it doesn't have instructions on how to use it.

Where do I install it? (I'm on a Mac.)
Where do I find these Lahman files that the Spritze is supposed to replace?
How do I get OotPB9 to trace a file path to its folder?
If I want to import complete history, do I need to interrupt that process at some point to swap in the Spritze files?
If not, then how do I do it?

Does anyone have advice? (I mean other than, "Go back to your fictionals.")

pbar25 · 01-29-2009, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curtis

I just downloaded the Spritze 2008 db, and it doesn't have instructions on how to use it.

Where do I install it? (I'm on a Mac.)
Where do I find these Lahman files that the Spritze is supposed to replace?
How do I get OotPB9 to trace a file path to its folder?
If I want to import complete history, do I need to interrupt that process at some point to swap in the Spritze files?
If not, then how do I do it?

Does anyone have advice? (I mean other than, "Go back to your fictionals.")

I don't know anything about Macs, but this is what I do..

a - Create a new folder within My Documents and call it: spritze
b - Navigate to My Documents/Out of the Park Developments/OOTP Baseball 9/stats
c - Open up the stats folder, then select all and copy the contents of the folder
d - Now paste all of that information into the new folder you created called spritze
e - Extract the Spritze 5.0 folder that you downloaded onto your desktop. Now you must move (not copy & paste) the contents of that folder into My Documents/spritze. Copy over all files when asked to do so. Your new database is complete.

Once you have opened your new game, you must set a database path :
Game/Game Setup/League Setup/Rules
Under the heading 'Historical Rookie Options' there will be a line which reads Database path. Enter in the path to your new spritze database:
My Documents/spritze or wherever you put it. (that's up to you)

pbar25 · 01-29-2009, 01:49 AM

as far as complete history, if you have tons of ram you should be able to import the complete history just fine for any season.
If you only have like 1GB, anything after 1970 might be pushing it. But it will eventually load each and every time even if you go to like 2000 for complete history. It's just that if you don't have a lot of ram, it might take a few hours and you probably should not touch the computer until it's done.

Curtis · 01-29-2009, 02:44 AM

Thank you for responding, pbar. Unfortunately, I think I'm going to need to hear from someone using a Mac, because I'm not seeing what you wrote.

I don't have an 'Out of the Park Developments' folder, and there is no 'stats' folder within my 'OOTP Baseball 9' folder. All I have in there is a 'data' folder, an 'install log.txt' file, the OOTP9 application and some 17.3 meg document with a label my keyboard can't reproduce that looks something like ::!:. There is no 'stats' folder within the 'data' folder, nor is there one within the 'contents' folder within the OOTP9 app. There actually is an 'OOTP9' folder within 'Documents', but it's empty and always has been. It recreates itself when I trash it.

Also, in instruction e — you have a line that reads "Copy over all files when asked to do so." I think that must be another PC-specific instruction, because I don't remember anything like that (being told by my computer to copy a file) happening in the 6+ years I've been using this machine.

About some of your other points: I've downloaded the Lahman for 1962 with complete history a couple of times, and it takes about twenty minutes, so time doesn't seem to be an issue. I don't know where this data goes when I download it. Most things (nearly everything, including the Spritze2008) I download go to my desktop, but the Lahman doesn't.

Your last paragraph,
"Once you have opened your new game, you must set a database path :
Game/Game Setup/League Setup/Rules
Under the heading 'Historical Rookie Options' there will be a line which reads Database path. Enter in the path to your new spritze database:
My Documents/spritze or wherever you put it."
implies that I should use the default Lahman path while creating the league, then go in after starting the new game and change the path. Is that what you meant? The reason I wanted to use the Spritze was that it contained many more players than the Lahman. If I change it after creation, then won't I lose those extra players who should appear at the start, and just get those added in 1962 and later?

Also, I wonder if anyone has suggestions for how to do the path. I've never been able to update OotPB on the first try, because whatever path I choose just dumps the update in limbo until the second or third attempt. (ie. It doesn't tell me I have an invalid path, it just goes through the updating procedure, but when it's done the version number hasn't changed.) If that happened with this league (accepting the file path, but not drawing anything out when the time came), it could trash hundreds of hours of work.

Sorry for being such a pain in the butt.

Spritze · 01-29-2009, 02:34 PM

"Also, in instruction e — you have a line that reads "Copy over all files when asked to do so." "
Try this for instruction E.
"Overwrite all files when asked if it is OK to do so."

Try this slightly altered instruction as well.
"During Creation Of your new game, you must set the database path to point to the Master.csv file you wish to use (towards the top of the creation screen as I disremember):
Enter in the path to your new spritze database:My Documents/spritze or wherever you put it."

Curtis · 01-29-2009, 06:15 PM

Okay, this is getting better. Unfortunately, I still have no 'stats' folder, so I don't know how to apply insructions b, c and d.

Spritze · 01-29-2009, 06:56 PM

Download the Lahman csv files from baseball1.com into any folder you wish.

copy the spritze files into the very same same folder

apply the overwrite instruction previously noted here, 5 or 6 files will be overwritten.

this is the folder you point to during league creation.

Do not use neutralized stats with the Spritze db.

Curtis · 01-29-2009, 07:04 PM

There are four versions of the Lahman database listed on that site. Should I download the comma delimited version?

I thought that OotPDevelopments massaged the DB somehow, and we had to use their version, rather than the 'raw'?

Spritze · 01-29-2009, 09:33 PM

CSV stands for comma separated values so yes that is what you need.

You can use the built in compiled Lahman db but then you don't get the extras but you do get the neutralized stats through 2007. History loads faster as well.

Don't try to load history with a non-compiled db as if it runs at all it takes an ungodly amount of ram and takes forever as pbar noted for you.

Curtis · 01-29-2009, 11:30 PM

Okay. So, with the Spritze I lose both the neutralized stats and the history. Got it. I'll try this tonight.

Curtis · 01-30-2009, 02:59 AM

I'm thinking something went wrong. It all seemed to proceed smoothly, but when I hit 'Create Game', the Mets (1962) ended up with only 17 players in their entire organization. Not trying to be sarcastic, but that seems very low to me.

Edit: Okay, I think I've got it. The problem is probably that it isn't putting the players on the teams they were on in 1962; it's putting them on the teams they came up with. I just checked, and the 16 original franchises do well, all of them having from 69 to 121 players in their organizations. The two second year AL teams have 29 and 33, while the two first year NL teams have only 17 and 23.

The question then becomes, how do I get the players onto the teams with which they started the 1962 season? We're talking 2000+ players to sort through and move around, and to be blunt, I'm not gonna do it.

Spritze · 01-30-2009, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curtis

The question then becomes, how do I get the players onto the teams with which they started the 1962 season? We're talking 2000+ players to sort through and move around, and to be blunt, I'm not gonna do it.

Ain't that kind of db. That's the Lahman db. This db puts players in organizations based on who they played the most for during their career, minors AND majors. Does this because it includes japanese and negro leaguers as well as minor league stars going back to 1871. To do what it appears you want to do just use the built in Lahman db.

Curtis · 01-30-2009, 04:38 PM

What would happen if I used the Lahman to create the game, then switched to yours for the rookie imports?

I'm guessing that wouldn't work either, because a lot of the guys who came up in 1962/3 would get missed by both. (Lahman wouldn't have added them yet, and yours would've had them in earlier, so now they'd get skipped.)

Spritze · 01-30-2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curtis

I'm guessing that wouldn't work either, because a lot of the guys who came up in 1962/3 would get missed by both. (Lahman wouldn't have added them yet, and yours would've had them in earlier, so now they'd get skipped.)

Yup also Yes also True also

Since players team assignments are only "correct" for the first day of the first year of any OOTP league due to signings, trades, waivers and other transactions, perhaps you could start your league in 1960 and mosey on from there having expansion in 1961 and 1962 and assembling a full complement of players that way.

Curtis · 01-30-2009, 07:25 PM

Thank you.

Curtis · 01-30-2009, 10:52 PM

One more question, Spritze.

If I go through and put (most of) the players on the teams they were on in 1962, will new players come into the systems they started in historically, or will they go to the systems where they spent most of their careers?

I do have 'import rookies according to history' checked and the draft turned off.

Spritze · 01-30-2009, 11:26 PM

Ah, I see you may be catching on.

Almost all players pre-1960 or so started their professional baseball careers on unaffiliated minor league teams or leagues and so OOTP would assign those players to its free agent list. Which means they could be signed to play with any team.

Willie Mays, Ernie Banks and Hank Aaron for instance all began their careers in the Negro Leagues and therefore they would enter the league as free agents able to be signed by any team. By assigning them to the teams they spent most of their careers with Willie starts out as a Giant, Ernie a Cub and Hank a Brave. They might get moved by those teams, kept or whatever the OOTP world has in store for them but they at least get to start in the organization most people associate them with.

Lou Gehrig and Babe Ruth also started with unaffiliated teams. Basically anyone who did not go straight to the majors started on those types of teams. Even after the Cardinals and Tigers and Dodgers introduced large minor league organizations many of their players started on unaffiliated teams.

The alternative to this type of assignment for historical leagues is basically the same as releasing all players and having a draft. Almost no one would be on the "right" team.

I simply chose the team one might expect the player to be on rather than their first major league team, last major league team or any of the middle ones. It is merely a design decision and could be changed if anyone came up with a better method I could use.

Curtis · 01-31-2009, 12:03 AM

All right, but by 1962 you have the beginnings of true minor league systems attached to parent clubs. Is there any point (any year) at which new players begin coming in with the systems they actually came up through?

Curtis · 01-31-2009, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

Almost all players pre-1960 or so started their professional baseball careers on unaffiliated minor league teams or leagues and so OOTP would assign those players to its free agent list. Which means they could be signed to play with any team.

In my mind, this would not be a bad thing. Players who did come up through 'systems' could be assigned to those teams, which would be an advantage (as it was historically) to those teams which maintained systems. Ideally this would be counterbalanced by an additional cost in the game to those teams (minor league personnel cost, for example), which teams without systems would not have to pay.

Players who came up through unaffiliated minors would have to be 'discovered', much as the current 'create and maintain hidden players' system works. You could use your foreign scouting to search for these players until affiliations became universal (around the time I want to start), after which they would actually begin searching for foreign players. If that doesn't work (using one system for two purposes might not be possible), you could use minor league scouting for the same purpose.

Or do I have no idea what I'm talking about?

Spritze · 01-31-2009, 01:16 AM

Keep in mind that basically nobody came up through systems in the first 100 years of baseball. Most players started in Class D ball which was pretty much unaffiliated.

Also note per my examples that although Willie, Ernie, Hank, the Babe, and Lou all started independent they all wind up on their real rookie team except Mr. Ruth.

Generally speaking around 70% of players wind up as rookies on the teams they played for as rookies. That is because minor league time spent in an organization counts towards the team they spent the most time with.

At no point do 100% of players start on their real rookie team.

01-28-2009, 07:24 AM	#1
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	Is there a FAQ for how to use databases? I just downloaded the Spritze 2008 db, and it doesn't have instructions on how to use it. Where do I install it? (I'm on a Mac.) Where do I find these Lahman files that the Spritze is supposed to replace? How do I get OotPB9 to trace a file path to its folder? If I want to import complete history, do I need to interrupt that process at some point to swap in the Spritze files? If not, then how do I do it? Does anyone have advice? (I mean other than, "Go back to your fictionals.")

01-30-2009, 02:59 AM	#11
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	I'm thinking something went wrong. It all seemed to proceed smoothly, but when I hit 'Create Game', the Mets (1962) ended up with only 17 players in their entire organization. Not trying to be sarcastic, but that seems very low to me. Edit: Okay, I think I've got it. The problem is probably that it isn't putting the players on the teams they were on in 1962; it's putting them on the teams they came up with. I just checked, and the 16 original franchises do well, all of them having from 69 to 121 players in their organizations. The two second year AL teams have 29 and 33, while the two first year NL teams have only 17 and 23. The question then becomes, how do I get the players onto the teams with which they started the 1962 season? We're talking 2000+ players to sort through and move around, and to be blunt, I'm not gonna do it. Last edited by Curtis; 01-30-2009 at 03:30 AM.

01-29-2009, 01:49 AM	#3
pbar25 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 343	as far as complete history, if you have tons of ram you should be able to import the complete history just fine for any season. If you only have like 1GB, anything after 1970 might be pushing it. But it will eventually load each and every time even if you go to like 2000 for complete history. It's just that if you don't have a lot of ram, it might take a few hours and you probably should not touch the computer until it's done.

01-29-2009, 02:44 AM	#4
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	Thank you for responding, pbar. Unfortunately, I think I'm going to need to hear from someone using a Mac, because I'm not seeing what you wrote. I don't have an 'Out of the Park Developments' folder, and there is no 'stats' folder within my 'OOTP Baseball 9' folder. All I have in there is a 'data' folder, an 'install log.txt' file, the OOTP9 application and some 17.3 meg document with a label my keyboard can't reproduce that looks something like ::!:. There is no 'stats' folder within the 'data' folder, nor is there one within the 'contents' folder within the OOTP9 app. There actually is an 'OOTP9' folder within 'Documents', but it's empty and always has been. It recreates itself when I trash it. Also, in instruction e — you have a line that reads "Copy over all files when asked to do so." I think that must be another PC-specific instruction, because I don't remember anything like that (being told by my computer to copy a file) happening in the 6+ years I've been using this machine. About some of your other points: I've downloaded the Lahman for 1962 with complete history a couple of times, and it takes about twenty minutes, so time doesn't seem to be an issue. I don't know where this data goes when I download it. Most things (nearly everything, including the Spritze2008) I download go to my desktop, but the Lahman doesn't. Your last paragraph, "Once you have opened your new game, you must set a database path : Game/Game Setup/League Setup/Rules Under the heading 'Historical Rookie Options' there will be a line which reads Database path. Enter in the path to your new spritze database: My Documents/spritze or wherever you put it." implies that I should use the default Lahman path while creating the league, then go in after starting the new game and change the path. Is that what you meant? The reason I wanted to use the Spritze was that it contained many more players than the Lahman. If I change it after creation, then won't I lose those extra players who should appear at the start, and just get those added in 1962 and later? Also, I wonder if anyone has suggestions for how to do the path. I've never been able to update OotPB on the first try, because whatever path I choose just dumps the update in limbo until the second or third attempt. (ie. It doesn't tell me I have an invalid path, it just goes through the updating procedure, but when it's done the version number hasn't changed.) If that happened with this league (accepting the file path, but not drawing anything out when the time came), it could trash hundreds of hours of work. Sorry for being such a pain in the butt.

01-29-2009, 02:34 PM	#5
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	"Also, in instruction e — you have a line that reads "Copy over all files when asked to do so." " Try this for instruction E. "Overwrite all files when asked if it is OK to do so." Try this slightly altered instruction as well. "During Creation Of your new game, you must set the database path to point to the Master.csv file you wish to use (towards the top of the creation screen as I disremember): Enter in the path to your new spritze database:My Documents/spritze or wherever you put it."

01-29-2009, 06:15 PM	#6
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	Okay, this is getting better. Unfortunately, I still have no 'stats' folder, so I don't know how to apply insructions b, c and d.

01-29-2009, 06:56 PM	#7
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	Download the Lahman csv files from baseball1.com into any folder you wish. copy the spritze files into the very same same folder apply the overwrite instruction previously noted here, 5 or 6 files will be overwritten. this is the folder you point to during league creation. Do not use neutralized stats with the Spritze db.

01-29-2009, 07:04 PM	#8
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	There are four versions of the Lahman database listed on that site. Should I download the comma delimited version? I thought that OotPDevelopments massaged the DB somehow, and we had to use their version, rather than the 'raw'?

01-29-2009, 09:33 PM	#9
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	CSV stands for comma separated values so yes that is what you need. You can use the built in compiled Lahman db but then you don't get the extras but you do get the neutralized stats through 2007. History loads faster as well. Don't try to load history with a non-compiled db as if it runs at all it takes an ungodly amount of ram and takes forever as pbar noted for you.

01-29-2009, 11:30 PM	#10
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	Okay. So, with the Spritze I lose both the neutralized stats and the history. Got it. I'll try this tonight.

01-30-2009, 04:38 PM	#13
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	What would happen if I used the Lahman to create the game, then switched to yours for the rookie imports? I'm guessing that wouldn't work either, because a lot of the guys who came up in 1962/3 would get missed by both. (Lahman wouldn't have added them yet, and yours would've had them in earlier, so now they'd get skipped.)

01-30-2009, 07:25 PM	#15
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	Thank you.

01-30-2009, 10:52 PM	#16
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	One more question, Spritze. If I go through and put (most of) the players on the teams they were on in 1962, will new players come into the systems they started in historically, or will they go to the systems where they spent most of their careers? I do have 'import rookies according to history' checked and the draft turned off.

01-30-2009, 11:26 PM	#17
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	Ah, I see you may be catching on. Almost all players pre-1960 or so started their professional baseball careers on unaffiliated minor league teams or leagues and so OOTP would assign those players to its free agent list. Which means they could be signed to play with any team. Willie Mays, Ernie Banks and Hank Aaron for instance all began their careers in the Negro Leagues and therefore they would enter the league as free agents able to be signed by any team. By assigning them to the teams they spent most of their careers with Willie starts out as a Giant, Ernie a Cub and Hank a Brave. They might get moved by those teams, kept or whatever the OOTP world has in store for them but they at least get to start in the organization most people associate them with. Lou Gehrig and Babe Ruth also started with unaffiliated teams. Basically anyone who did not go straight to the majors started on those types of teams. Even after the Cardinals and Tigers and Dodgers introduced large minor league organizations many of their players started on unaffiliated teams. The alternative to this type of assignment for historical leagues is basically the same as releasing all players and having a draft. Almost no one would be on the "right" team. I simply chose the team one might expect the player to be on rather than their first major league team, last major league team or any of the middle ones. It is merely a design decision and could be changed if anyone came up with a better method I could use.

01-31-2009, 12:03 AM	#18
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	All right, but by 1962 you have the beginnings of true minor league systems attached to parent clubs. Is there any point (any year) at which new players begin coming in with the systems they actually came up through?

01-31-2009, 01:16 AM	#20
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	Keep in mind that basically nobody came up through systems in the first 100 years of baseball. Most players started in Class D ball which was pretty much unaffiliated. Also note per my examples that although Willie, Ernie, Hank, the Babe, and Lou all started independent they all wind up on their real rookie team except Mr. Ruth. Generally speaking around 70% of players wind up as rookies on the teams they played for as rookies. That is because minor league time spent in an organization counts towards the team they spent the most time with. At no point do 100% of players start on their real rookie team.