How to find a good home?

[Lamorak]

I've occassionally been curious about joining a league but I've been a little overwhelmed by the number and variety.

My past experiences with two online baseabll leagues has left me more than a little cautious about finding the right one. Yet, with so many, I'm overwhelmed.

Heck, I'm exhausted before I've read even read half the rules, let alone scanning through message boards.

I'm willing to wait for an opening in a quality league, if I can find a good fit.

What kind of league I'd like:

Active, intelligent, fair, open, mature.

What am I concerned by?

Cheating, flame-wars, constant rule modifications, rule lawyers and most of all; owners who live by sucker trades with less skilled players. That last, I REALLY hate.

So, what do you think- am I dreaming?

Any suggestions are welcome. Feel free to e-mail me in confidence, if there are leagues/players I should avoid.

Thanks for your time.

[Cooleyvol]

My advice would be to start on the OOTP Leagues page.

There are MANY other great leagues, but that is a good place to start.

[Lamorak]

The league server is a fantastic menu but I'm wondering if anyone can recommend a good meal off it.

Or at least warn me which would give me food poisioning.

[MannyTrillo]

What kind of league are you looking for- current real players, historical, fictional? Check out the links to the ABA, So49, and MONSTA leagues in my sig (the BBL is currently on some kind of hiatus). All three are excellent leagues that in my experience have been free from the BS you describe.

In my experience, the sort of problems you describe are much more common to current real players leagues... fictional/historical leagues seem to be a lot more stable, and draw a more mature crowd in general for whatever reason.

[TSmith1969]

Come by and have a look at the States League. We are a 38-team, one-season league of all-time all-stars by state of birth. Our opening day was this weekend and there are a few decent states with openings, including Michigan, Tennessee, Iowa, and Arkansas. One advantage of our league (with regard to your biggest pet peeve) is that since teams are state all-stars, there are no trades. This league is not for everyone, but is ideal for baseball history buffs and people looking for a league with a twist. We have a good group of owners and have had a very successful beginning.

[Lamorak]

Thanks for the input guys!

I generally prefer fast sim type games. I'm definitely more a front office GM than a Field Boss Manager kind of player. Big picture strategy, over small detail tactics. I get the most enjoyment out of wheelin' dealin' talkin' trade game play.

The idea of fictional players/leagues appeals to me more than historical or real. As much as I love OOTP, I still tend to lean towards Strat-o-matic for historical/real replays.

I'll look in on the sites you've mentioned, a good start. Particularly on how to find an older crowd.
Not that I'm much more than a kid myself at 31. I've just grizzled beyond my tender years.

[crackpott]

hmm... my first thought was going to the humane society. They could help you out.

[MannyTrillo]

Have a look at the ABA (link in sig). The NOBL and the USBA are two other fictional leagues I'm aware of that seem to be very good.

[John C]

Hi,

The ABL is a fictional/historical league, in that we have our own 100-year history. We have sixteen teams, set in the original cities, and an excellent atmosphere (first league I've ever been in where I didn't replace anyone going into an offseason). We're always accepting people onto our mailing list, just to see how I run things and if it's your cup of tea.

You can also join the ABL as a player, by entering the Dixie League. You can check that out by viewing the first link on my sig.

Any questions, feel free to look me up:

ABLCommish@aol.com
AIM: UCONNROX11

Hope that helps a little bit.

Peace
John

[Killebrew]

Originally posted by Lamorak
What kind of league I'd like:
Active, intelligent, fair, open, mature.

Leagues with younger players seem to be far more active, but frequently that high activity breeds negatives like online feuds & pissing contests, extreme trade sharking, and in absolute worst cases - cheating.

Originally posted by Lamorak
What am I concerned by?
Cheating, flame-wars,

Even though they tend to not be as uber active, I'd strongly suggest a league of older players to avoid these concerns. Cheating and flame wars are far more common in leagues of younger players (sorry kids, dats da facts). I would not want to rule out modern leagues but the likelihood of young owners increases when the league is a modern day league.

Originally posted by Lamorak
constant rule modifications, rule lawyers

To me rule modifications can be a very good thing if they are the result of game loopholes. There does need to be consistency though - if you are keeping a tight budget because finances are on it would be grossly unfair for the Commish to decide the league goes in no-finance mode next sim. There need to be some rules to avoid as much unfairness as possible, but rules should never be made just for the hell of it, and the priority should always be the game not the rules.

Originally posted by Lamorak
and most of all; owners who live by sucker trades with less skilled players. That last, I REALLY hate.

This is usually subjective, and I must say I dislike jealous/resentful GM's almost as much as the trade sharking GM's. There can be obvious trade sharking, even collusion, but in most leagues I think (hope) that is rare. The only leagues I have personally seen that behavior in have folded within a year and a half of starting. The trade shark will eat itself I guess.

Sometimes trades that appear uneven will be great trades for both clubs, so you can't really call those sucker trades. All that said, here are my trade shark pet peeves:
1) An owner that outright lies about a player. A common old example is saying the player has never been injured. OOTP4 fixed this issue with it's player history logging.
2) An owner that puts the screws (hard sell) on an obviously unexperienced owner. Heavy pressure combined with outright lies will be what the worst trade shark offender does.
3) If an owner combines some sort of league stature (like Commish or League President) with the above two habits that might be the absolute worst shark. Fortunately I've never seen any evidence of that kind of character.

The best way IMO to prevent sharking is to encourage lots of league communication and to have a league that does not get new GM's every month. I have seen trade sharks reputations ruined so badly that they have to struggle to get anyone to trade with them - in many cases they will have to overpay just to get another deal done. Also, for newbie owners it would be handy to have some kind of anti-sharking guide. It might be wise for a new GM to not make any trades for 1 season, or to run every 1st year trade offer by a league rep.


Lamorak, most of those things you mention might be avoided if you choose a veteran league that has been around 5+ seasons. The length of time usually means the Commish is solid, and the league has retained enough core GM's with a stake in their team, players, and the league that they will police themselves for dishonest conduct, sharking, flaming etc.. Good luck finding your ultimate OOTP league.

[Steve Strzepek of BTTF]

http://www.staudernet.com/bttf

Check it out and get on the waiting list.

[spleen1015]

I wouldn't get into a league with Hammer755. He doesn't let anyone else win the championships.

[LivnLegend]

Hammer, how much do you pay these guys to say such complimentary things?

[Hammer755]

Originally posted by LivnLegend
Hammer, how much do you pay these guys to say such complimentary things?

I'm just living off my reputation, and an ample supply of Cheez Wiz that I barter in exchange for compliments. I haven't won a championship in several game seasons. Of course I'll always hear about that PSBL ring you got many moons ago.

[Lamorak]

LOL

Great stuff guys, I'm getting a great picture of what kind of atmosphere I had to look forward to!

This (sucker trades with less skilled players) is usually subjective, and I must say I dislike jealous/resentful GM's almost as much as the trade sharking GM's

Why is that the case?

In my experience, a 'trade shark' can quickly destroy an entire league, not only ruining general competition with the construction of a unbeatable uber-mega-franchise, but also by leaving teams he's pillaged in ruins that no new players in their right mind would want to deal with.

Jealous/resentful GM's will (at worse) spread seeds of discontent. But unless other players agree with them, they won't take root.

If that is the case then the reasons behind these negative feelings are somewhat insignificant. Whatever the reasons for them, the end result is still a disappointed faction who feel they cannot compete with this individual or core group of owners. In some cases this results in a league where only half the teams are constantly owned by the same person and all other teams are mostly vacant. Or at best have a steady stream of 'caretaker' managers, who after a single season quit in frustration.

Ideally, I'd like a league where all the owners, no matter how few or how many, feel that every single other GM is a worthy oppponent and can hold there own.

Those are the guys I want to beat!

[Lamorak]

crackpott,

hmm... my first thought was going to the humane society. They could help you out.

I see you're from Toronto.

I actually lived in TO 91'-92'. I worked at Ontario Paint & Wallpaper Ltd on Queen East and visited the Humane Society Queen West several times. Check it out sometime.

[Bluenoser]

Originally posted by Lamorak

LOL

Great stuff guys, I'm getting a great picture of what kind of atmosphere I had to look forward to!



Why is that the case?

In my experience, a 'trade shark' can quickly destroy an entire league, not only ruining general competition with the construction of a unbeatable uber-mega-franchise, but also by leaving teams he's pillaged in ruins that no new players in their right mind would want to deal with.

Jealous/resentful GM's will (at worse) spread seeds of discontent. But unless other players agree with them, they won't take root.

If that is the case then the reasons behind these negative feelings are somewhat insignificant. Whatever the reasons for them, the end result is still a disappointed faction who feel they cannot compete with this individual or core group of owners. In some cases this results in a league where only half the teams are constantly owned by the same person and all other teams are mostly vacant. Or at best have a steady stream of 'caretaker' managers, who after a single season quit in frustration.

Ideally, I'd like a league where all the owners, no matter how few or how many, feel that every single other GM is a worthy oppponent and can hold there own.

Those are the guys I want to beat!

Well said Lamorak..........

[goon]

I just signed up for this league and it has a great bunch of guys so far and a good support cast of commishes. Just fyi...You can check it out here and/or read about it in the thread titled "Maverick Baseball League". Good luck!

http://mbl.ransplace.com

[Kezzek]

Insert plug for the Canadian Baseball League (CBL) here.

Great, competitive league that is getting more active every season. Great commish.

(And, no you don't have to be from Canada to be in it. )

[Delgadodawg]

Originally posted by Hammer755
I'm just living off my reputation, and an ample supply of Cheez Wiz that I barter in exchange for compliments. I haven't won a championship in several game seasons. Of course I'll always hear about that PSBL ring you got many moons ago.

He tries to take credit for both rings Portland won