Derek Cheater

[jaxmagicman]

It amazes me the amount of people, analyst and such that are saying, "you do what you got to do to win a ball game." in terms of what Derek Jeter did last night, but are the first people to say kick anyone out of the hall who is a known steriod user. How do you draw a line on what is just gamesmanship, and what is just flat out cheating. To me, Derek Jeter cheated last night. He pretended his hand was hit, he played it up. He told a lie. He cheated. That is not gamesmanship, that is flat out cheating.

Now if the ump said take your base, and he did. I would have no problem with it. But he pretended his hand was hit. Not even the hand that was on the bat. How in the world can someone say that is just gamesmanship?

[CD1083]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

It amazes me the amount of people, analyst and such that are saying, "you do what you got to do to win a ball game." in terms of what Derek Jeter did last night, but are the first people to say kick anyone out of the hall who is a known steriod user. How do you draw a line on what is just gamesmanship, and what is just flat out cheating. To me, Derek Jeter cheated last night. He pretended his hand was hit, he played it up. He told a lie. He cheated. That is not gamesmanship, that is flat out cheating.

Now if the ump said take your base, and he did. I would have no problem with it. But he pretended his hand was hit. Not even the hand that was on the bat. How in the world can someone say that is just gamesmanship?

It's within the confines of the game.

[jaxmagicman]

So is a spitball. Or rubbing something on the ball. It is within the confines of the game.

Oddly enough, the New York Media did the best job on it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/m...ace&id=5580067

[jaxmagicman]

"Certainly, what Jeter did does not fall into the realm of shouting "Ha!" at an infielder camping under a pop fly or trying to swat the ball out of a player's glove."

[CD1083]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

So is a spitball. Or rubbing something on the ball. It is within the confines of the game.

Oddly enough, the New York Media did the best job on it.

New York Yankees shortstop Derek Jeter proves he's not so perfect with his shenanigans against the Tampa Bay Rays - ESPN New York

If those things weren't specifically prohibited in the rules, I'd be for them too.

There's no rule against acting like you got hit when you didn't.
It's not against the rules to steal signs and it's not against the rules for the Minnesota Twins to turn on the air conditioning and blow the air towards the infield when the opposition is up to bat. These things all happen on the field.

Steroids are another ball of wax, which involves illegal substances being taken.

You can't call Jeter a cheater unless you're also willing to call every wide receiver who pretends he caught a pass when it in fact touched the ground, a cheater as well.

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by Chase Davis

If those things weren't specifically prohibited in the rules, I'd be for them too.

There's no rule against acting like you got hit when you didn't.
It's not against the rules to steal signs and it's not against the rules for the Minnesota Twins to turn on the air conditioning and blow the air towards the infield when the opposition is up to bat. These things all happen on the field.

Steroids are another ball of wax, which involves illegal substances being taken.

You can't call Jeter a cheater unless you're also willing to call every wide receiver who pretends he caught a pass when it in fact touched the ground, a cheater as well.

I can understand a Wide Reciever thinking he got a ball that hit the ground. It is bang-bang, and how can he be 100% sure. I am not even against Jeter getting first base when he knew it hit his bat. I am against the act that he put on.

Again the New York guy got it right:

"What happened Wednesday night is something we might have come to expect from the likes of A-Rod, something unethical and faintly unseemly, something you know is accepted in sports but never quite makes you feel right when you see it, even if it is done by your favorite team or player.

In real life, it might translate to lying on your resume or fudging your sales figures. In my business, it would be equivalent to "borrowing" someone else's work and passing it off as my own, or inventing a quote and putting it into the mouth of some nonexistent "unnamed source."

In just about any profession -- except on Wall Street, where such practices seem to be rewarded with hefty bonuses -- that kind of thing will get you fired and probably blackballed.

In professional sports, it gets you the reputation of being "a gamer," a guy who will do anything to get an edge over his opponent. It is precisely that sort of thinking that gave rise to the steroid mentality.

Jeter did nothing so egregious, of course, and no one in his or her right mind could have expected him to tell the umpire that the ball did not, in fact, hit him, which he readily admitted after the game.

But there was something a little grubby about the whole act, something a little desperate, and something that reminded me of how much I scorn outfielders who jump up screaming they caught that sinking liner that the replay clearly shows they trapped, or the wide receiver who insists he caught the pass that the eye in the sky proves to have skipped.

It reveals a fundamental lack of integrity we have come, sadly, to expect of the average person, but not from Derek Jeter, who over the past 15 years has shown himself to be anything but average."

[Jason]

Wow...the New York guy really nailed it.

Jeter cheated. It really is that simple. He wasn't hit, he knew he wasn't hit and he pretended that he was to gain an unfair advantage over an opponent. It's bush league, childish and a poor example to any youth who might be watching Jeter as a good example.

People can try to excuse it away by pointing out other people doing similar things to what Jeter did but it's still cheating.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Autism Speaks

Wow...the New York guy really nailed it.

Jeter cheated. It really is that simple. He wasn't hit, he knew he wasn't hit and he pretended that he was to gain an unfair advantage over an opponent. It's bush league, childish and a poor example to any youth who might be watching Jeter as a good example.

People can try to excuse it away by pointing out other people doing similar things to what Jeter did but it's still cheating.

Yeah the play acting got to me. I'd have no problem if he just stood there and waited for the call. I like Jeter he's a great player, but I lost a little respect for him last night.

[ukhotstove]

Yankees captain, shouldn't he be above doing things like this ?

[stevebydac]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

So is a spitball. Or rubbing something on the ball. It is within the confines of the game.

I'm a Red Sox fan, and I'm going to defend Jeter.

(I think I just threw up in my mouth )

To me, when you introduce an element to the game that is not at your "natural" ready disposal on the field, that's a type of cheating that is to be penalized harshly:
1. PEDs - they help you perform better and/or are against the law
2. Adding artificially introduced substances to a ball or bat (petroleum jelly, cork, etc)
3. Stealing signs using binoculars or TV or a telescope

What I feel is "gamesmanship" and should get you scolded if caught, but is not disgraceful "cheating" like above:
1. Spitballs - it's your own saliva
2. Cutting a ball with your fingernail to give it movement
3. Pretending to get hit by a ball (Jeter) or faking a catch you trapped
4. Stealing signs using your intelligence and your own eyes

Last night, if I was a Yankee I would have been happy that Jeter acted as he did. If I were Tampa Bay, I'd take the law into my own hands and REALLY hit him at the next best opportunity. But even they realize that it's part of the game and not a big deal.

I played ball when I was young, and everybody I knew at one time or another pretended to catch a trapped ball, raise their glove up, and hope the ump call it a catch. What Jeter did was similar. Not a big deal to me. (although Jeter the cheater has a nice ring to it! )

[Afino]

to me, it's gamesmanship no different than stealing signs.

Yes, Jeter deserves a fastball in the back. But don't crucify him for trying to get on base in a big game. It's not his fault his OPS+ is like 90. Oh wait, it is.

edit: it's actually lower than that! 86!

[Cooleyvol]

Its my understanding he was told to take his base immediately. Regardless, I can't believe the outrage. Every game you watch has someone trying to act like they've been hit. This isn't something new.


How about a guy who acts as if he caught a trapped ball hoping to get the call and out in his favor? There's NO difference at all.

I'm sure each and every one of you who are griping would've turned to the ump and told him you didn't get hit and would like to stay in the batter's box. Yeah, that's what I thought.

[Ragnar]

Geez, what's the big deal? He did what any other player does to try and advance.

Trying to fool a ref or an ump is part of the game. Was what he did a little weak? Sure.

[bailey]

What he did was OK, it was the bragging afterwards that is going to haunt him. In the future, umpires will err on the side of calling him out...

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

Its my understanding he was told to take his base immediately. Regardless, I can't believe the outrage. Every game you watch has someone trying to act like they've been hit. This isn't something new.


How about a guy who acts as if he caught a trapped ball hoping to get the call and out in his favor? There's NO difference at all.

I'm sure each and every one of you who are griping would've turned to the ump and told him you didn't get hit and would like to stay in the batter's box. Yeah, that's what I thought.

I've already said once, that I have no problem with him getting the base. My problem was the play acting. He already had the base, why did he have to pretend he was hit.

[CommishJoe]

Originally Posted by Afino

to me, it's gamesmanship no different than stealing signs.

Yes, Jeter deserves a fastball in the back. But don't crucify him for trying to get on base in a big game. It's not his fault his OPS+ is like 90. Oh wait, it is.

edit: it's actually lower than that! 86!

I read a great article which basically echos this statement. I don't think it's cheating, but I do believe he's gonna get beaned when the Rays come to town next time and I won't blame them one bit.

Also, what made this different from A-Rod's antics was that A-Rod tried to make an opposing player screw up. Jeter just tried to fool an umpire which a catcher does at least 50 times a game by framing pitches.

http://joeposnanski.si.com/2010/09/1...ool-of-acting/

[Erik W.]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

I've already said once, that I have no problem with him getting the base. My problem was the play acting. He already had the base, why did he have to pretend he was hit.

I'm not sure he was acting, at least initially. He probably received a darn good jolt from a fastball hitting the knob of his bat squarely. His first reaction was probably real.

I've only seen the highlight clips, so I don't know how long he carried it on, but since the ump had awarded him the base immediately I'm not sure why he would have prolonged the acting, if he did.

[CommishJoe]

Originally Posted by Erik W.

I'm not sure he was acting, at least initially. He probably received a darn good jolt from a fastball hitting the knob of his bat squarely. His first reaction was probably real.

I've only seen the highlight clips, so I don't know how long he carried it on, but since the ump had awarded him the base immediately I'm not sure why he would have prolonged the acting, if he did.

Unfortunately, his hand that he acted like was hurt wasn't even on the bat when it was hit.

[CONN CHRIS]

In one game last month, we were starting to rock a pitcher when I came to bat. The first pitch grazed my shirt. The umpire said to take my base but I just stared at him with a dumb look and said it didn't hit me. I wanted to get my licks in before the pitcher was pulled.

The guy was in such trouble that his catcher would rather have me on with a HBP - so he ratted me out and told the ump that he saw it hit me.


Just another of the many ways in which I am NOT like Derek Jeter.

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS

In one game last month, we were starting to rock a pitcher when I came to bat. The first pitch grazed my shirt. The umpire said to take my base but I just stared at him with a dumb look and said it didn't hit me. I wanted to get my licks in before the pitcher was pulled.

The guy was in such trouble that his catcher would rather have me on with a HBP - so he ratted me out and told the ump that he saw it hit me.


Just another of the many ways in which I am NOT like Derek Jeter.

Your situation is quite a bit different than Jeter's. You were in a summer league game and wanted to get your swings in. Jeter was/is in a pennant race, knows he's going to get his swings in, and wanted to further the inning. Not really the same at all, actually.

In his situation, you'd have done the same thing he did, I'm sure.............or took an ass chewing from your manager.