New York Mets 2007-2008 offseason thread

ctorg · 09-30-2007, 05:50 PM

So, it's over, and given the ending, I'd rather think about 2008 than reflect on 2007 very much. There will likely be some shaking up with the Mets in the offseason, but who knows what the nature of it will be? Certainly they can't leave it alone this time.

CMH · 09-30-2007, 06:04 PM

What's your thought on Willie this offseason? Do you think Manaya lets him go or does he look to make several changes within the lineup/rotation starting with Tom Glavine and Orlando Hernandez?

Green & Gold Heart · 09-30-2007, 06:10 PM

Is this the year the Mets finally trade Lastings Milledge?

ctorg · 09-30-2007, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeePride

What's your thought on Willie this offseason? Do you think Manaya lets him go or does he look to make several changes within the lineup/rotation starting with Tom Glavine and Orlando Hernandez?

I tend to think Willie will stay, although I think he will have a somewhat shortened leash next year. Since Glavine, Lo Duca, and several others are likely going to be gone now, Minaya will have to do something to replace them. The team needs a big shake-up, and I think Minaya will try to do that in a way that improves the team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green & Gold Heart

Is this the year the Mets finally trade Lastings Milledge?

It might be, though that isn't necessarily for the best. The team is without a RF for next season, and possibly without a LF as well (pending a decision on Alou). If they trade him, they would need to replace him.

I do not have high hopes for the Mets in 2008. I was thinking of 2007 as their last shot before they would need to think about rebuilding a bit. They have Wright, Reyes, and Beltran, and they have Maine and Perez in the rotation, and most of the rest of the team is going to be determined in this offseason. If Minaya can pull off impressive moves, he'll make the team better, but that will be hard to do considering the upcoming departures.

Melo · 09-30-2007, 07:08 PM

I'm kind of in favor of an age related house cleaning.

Glavine should go.

El Duque has another year left but I wouldn't give him a meaningful role. He pitched great but for the 2nd year in a row, broke down in September. If the Mets have to rely on him next year, we are in trouble.

LoDuca is breaking down. Say bye-bye Paulie.

I liked the trade for Castillo but his knee is an issue. I say pass on him and go for a younger more athletic guy. I like Albert Callaspo from AZ. He's behind Hudson and maybe a deal involving Milledge or Gomez can work.

Delgado has a year left with an option. He'll have to stay.

Alou was fantastic. Absolutely great and the Mets hold an option. I'd say that they don't exercise it. His injury really disrupted the team and as great as he was, I'm not willing to chance that again.

Cut Mota, pay him off for next year and just say goodbye. The bullpen doesn't really have anyone except for Wagner and possibly Heilman who can miss bats. Feliciano is a LOOGY. Schoeneweis sucked for most of the year. Omar has to find some power arms. Lindstrom would have looked nice in the Mets pen this year.

Willie is safe but some kind of disconnect occurred this year. Omar and Willie were not on the same page. There were some quotes from Wagner complaining about Willie and Peterson and how neither managed the bullpen well. First off, Wagner needs to shut up. Secondly, he's right. Part of the problem was the bullpen management but blame also falls on Omar for not being able to secure someone to step in for Burgos who failed and got hurt, Smith who got worn out and Mota who flat out sucked. The bullpen was a friggin mess and when Maine and Perez started wearing down a bit and Duque got hurt, the weakness became glaring. Bullpens are so tough to put together, though.

ctorg · 09-30-2007, 07:21 PM

I agree with a lot of that. Really all of it, ideally, but I think there would be too many holes to fill if they let all the old guys go. They may need to keep Alou or Castillo around for another year or something. The bullpen was probably the biggest difference from last year, so I know that will need some work, but certainly it goes far beyond that. Even if the Mets had won it all this year, they would have had to make a lot of moves just to keep the team as good as this year's, never mind making it better. Now it seems like even more of an uphill climb.

CMH · 09-30-2007, 07:50 PM

It seems like Willie's handling of the bullpen is everyone's biggest gripe with him.

This has been the hot topic since his first season and this year was no different.

I know Wagner talks a lot. But, he usually doesn't say anything unless other people feel the same way.

QuestGAV · 09-30-2007, 08:00 PM

I know you're experiencing some spiritual distress right now related to the Mets collapse, but I couldn't let this go by:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctorg

The team needs a big shake-up, and I think Minaya will try to do that in a way that improves the team.

I think Joe Morgan would be very proud to know that his analytical style is spreading like a virus - perhaps herpes.

ctorg · 09-30-2007, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

I think Joe Morgan would be very proud to know that his analytical style is spreading like a virus - perhaps herpes.

Not sure how what I said came across as Joe Morganish. I didn't mean it in a Morganish way. My main fear is that the need for a shake-up will pressure Minaya to make moves that actually don't help the team.

ctorg · 10-01-2007, 08:42 AM

I was just looking over the Mets' final stats for the season. One thing that strikes me is that Glavine's numbers didn't end up looking too great in the end. A week or two ago, his ERA was under 4, but it finished at 4.45. He only struck out 89 guys in 200.1 innings. Perez and Maine put up promising numbers, but both need to work on control (especially Perez).

David Wright ended up having his best season yet, which makes me wonder what a decent April would have done for him. Let's hope he can keep it up next year. Beltran, too, ended up with a good season after looking not-so-good midseason.

Milledge hasn't put up the super-monster numbers everyone seems to think he is capable of yet, but I'd rather the Mets went with him in RF next year than with some aging, half-crippled former All-Star signed for one year. While Alou was great when he played this year, the injury thing really hurt the team. And Green is on a steep decline and may want to retire with dignity while he can. There is a chance Alou will be back, but I guess we'll see.

Once again the Mets will have to figure out what to do about 2B. Castillo still has the skill, but he looks like his legs are about to fall off at the knees. And who knows what will happen behind the plate. Maybe they'll get Piazza back (joking).

The whole pitching staff looks like it will need to be reconfigured, and that's the scariest thing to me. Outside of Maine, Perez, Pedro, and Wagner, anything goes.

Big Hugg · 10-01-2007, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctorg

I was just looking over the Mets' final stats for the season.

I still can't believe Jose Reyes hit .205/.279/.333 in September. Short-circuited the whole offense.

Melo · 10-01-2007, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Hugg

I still can't believe Jose Reyes hit .205/.279/.333 in September. Short-circuited the whole offense.

and yet while going 5-12 down the stretch they were averaging about 6 runs a game. Like a lot of losing teams, though, when the Mets hit, they didn't pitch and the Mets pitched, they didn't hit.

ctorg · 10-01-2007, 09:42 AM

I believe the Mets pretty much nailed their pythagorean record, so it's not that they had the bad luck of scoring at worse times or anything. I believe the Phillies' run differential and pyth rec was better than the Mets in the end. I'm lazy enough to say that without making the calculation, but I think it's true.

QuestGAV · 10-01-2007, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctorg

Not sure how what I said came across as Joe Morganish. I didn't mean it in a Morganish way. My main fear is that the need for a shake-up will pressure Minaya to make moves that actually don't help the team.

I can understand the fear, I just thought it was funny to see you go out on a limb there and suggest that he'd at least try to improve the team in the process.

ctorg · 10-01-2007, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

I can understand the fear, I just thought it was funny to see you go out on a limb there and suggest that he'd at least try to improve the team in the process.

Well, there's a lot of New York media pressure saying, "Rip the team apart and put it back together, because that's what they need." The fact is that the team is still pretty good and doesn't need that level of rebuilding (though it does need some), but I expect that a shake-up will happen on some level. I'm just hoping it's not just for the sake of doing something different.

I actually saw a quote by Minaya from yesterday that kind of said as much, so I'm glad he's got his head on straight. Years of seeing the crosstown Yankees get rearranged whenever Steinbrenner was unhappy get me worried about such things (those were the lean years for the Yankees for a reason).

ctorg · 10-01-2007, 03:27 PM

You know, a day after the fact, I'm not nearly as bothered by the Mets' losing out on the postseason as I was by the way they went down last year. They've been playing pretty poor baseball for most of the season this year, and it was really a matter of time before another team took advantage of that. Last year had a real feeling to it like it was their year to pull it off. This year never really had that, at least not since early on.

rem · 10-04-2007, 06:59 PM

Maybe the Mets can trade for Kaz Matsui to fill that hole at 2nd.

PlayTheKids · 10-04-2007, 10:27 PM

Kaz would never have done this in New York. Not in a million years. He was thoroughly overwhelmed there.

thomamon · 10-05-2007, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeePride

It seems like Willie's handling of the bullpen is everyone's biggest gripe with him.

What can you expect when you were under Torre's wing for so long...

ctorg · 10-05-2007, 08:38 AM

It seems to me that modern managers all struggle with bullpen management. It must be one of the most difficult areas of the game to deal with. You've got to weigh strategy, fatigue, and a variety of other factors. Personally, I think the way starting pitchers are treated like fragile glass figurines is a bit much. A hundred pitches isn't that much, really. Thirty years ago guys pitched complete games regularly and many still did it every four days. I think some guys can do that, even today, but these days it's assumed that no one can. If you can have a starter get through 7 innings regularly, bullpen management becomes much easier.

09-30-2007, 05:50 PM	#1
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	New York Mets 2007-2008 offseason thread So, it's over, and given the ending, I'd rather think about 2008 than reflect on 2007 very much. There will likely be some shaking up with the Mets in the offseason, but who knows what the nature of it will be? Certainly they can't leave it alone this time. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

09-30-2007, 07:21 PM	#6
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I agree with a lot of that. Really all of it, ideally, but I think there would be too many holes to fill if they let all the old guys go. They may need to keep Alou or Castillo around for another year or something. The bullpen was probably the biggest difference from last year, so I know that will need some work, but certainly it goes far beyond that. Even if the Mets had won it all this year, they would have had to make a lot of moves just to keep the team as good as this year's, never mind making it better. Now it seems like even more of an uphill climb. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

10-01-2007, 08:42 AM	#10
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I was just looking over the Mets' final stats for the season. One thing that strikes me is that Glavine's numbers didn't end up looking too great in the end. A week or two ago, his ERA was under 4, but it finished at 4.45. He only struck out 89 guys in 200.1 innings. Perez and Maine put up promising numbers, but both need to work on control (especially Perez). David Wright ended up having his best season yet, which makes me wonder what a decent April would have done for him. Let's hope he can keep it up next year. Beltran, too, ended up with a good season after looking not-so-good midseason. Milledge hasn't put up the super-monster numbers everyone seems to think he is capable of yet, but I'd rather the Mets went with him in RF next year than with some aging, half-crippled former All-Star signed for one year. While Alou was great when he played this year, the injury thing really hurt the team. And Green is on a steep decline and may want to retire with dignity while he can. There is a chance Alou will be back, but I guess we'll see. Once again the Mets will have to figure out what to do about 2B. Castillo still has the skill, but he looks like his legs are about to fall off at the knees. And who knows what will happen behind the plate. Maybe they'll get Piazza back (joking). The whole pitching staff looks like it will need to be reconfigured, and that's the scariest thing to me. Outside of Maine, Perez, Pedro, and Wagner, anything goes. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

10-01-2007, 09:42 AM	#13
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I believe the Mets pretty much nailed their pythagorean record, so it's not that they had the bad luck of scoring at worse times or anything. I believe the Phillies' run differential and pyth rec was better than the Mets in the end. I'm lazy enough to say that without making the calculation, but I think it's true. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

10-01-2007, 03:27 PM	#16
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	You know, a day after the fact, I'm not nearly as bothered by the Mets' losing out on the postseason as I was by the way they went down last year. They've been playing pretty poor baseball for most of the season this year, and it was really a matter of time before another team took advantage of that. Last year had a real feeling to it like it was their year to pull it off. This year never really had that, at least not since early on. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

09-30-2007, 06:04 PM	#2
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	What's your thought on Willie this offseason? Do you think Manaya lets him go or does he look to make several changes within the lineup/rotation starting with Tom Glavine and Orlando Hernandez?

09-30-2007, 06:10 PM	#3
Green & Gold Heart Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 5,242	Is this the year the Mets finally trade Lastings Milledge?

09-30-2007, 07:08 PM	#5
Melo All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Where the baned reside Posts: 1,428	I'm kind of in favor of an age related house cleaning. Glavine should go. El Duque has another year left but I wouldn't give him a meaningful role. He pitched great but for the 2nd year in a row, broke down in September. If the Mets have to rely on him next year, we are in trouble. LoDuca is breaking down. Say bye-bye Paulie. I liked the trade for Castillo but his knee is an issue. I say pass on him and go for a younger more athletic guy. I like Albert Callaspo from AZ. He's behind Hudson and maybe a deal involving Milledge or Gomez can work. Delgado has a year left with an option. He'll have to stay. Alou was fantastic. Absolutely great and the Mets hold an option. I'd say that they don't exercise it. His injury really disrupted the team and as great as he was, I'm not willing to chance that again. Cut Mota, pay him off for next year and just say goodbye. The bullpen doesn't really have anyone except for Wagner and possibly Heilman who can miss bats. Feliciano is a LOOGY. Schoeneweis sucked for most of the year. Omar has to find some power arms. Lindstrom would have looked nice in the Mets pen this year. Willie is safe but some kind of disconnect occurred this year. Omar and Willie were not on the same page. There were some quotes from Wagner complaining about Willie and Peterson and how neither managed the bullpen well. First off, Wagner needs to shut up. Secondly, he's right. Part of the problem was the bullpen management but blame also falls on Omar for not being able to secure someone to step in for Burgos who failed and got hurt, Smith who got worn out and Mota who flat out sucked. The bullpen was a friggin mess and when Maine and Perez started wearing down a bit and Duque got hurt, the weakness became glaring. Bullpens are so tough to put together, though.

09-30-2007, 07:50 PM	#7
CMH Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 5,057	It seems like Willie's handling of the bullpen is everyone's biggest gripe with him. This has been the hot topic since his first season and this year was no different. I know Wagner talks a lot. But, he usually doesn't say anything unless other people feel the same way.

10-04-2007, 06:59 PM	#17
rem Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: College Park, Md. Posts: 5,024	Maybe the Mets can trade for Kaz Matsui to fill that hole at 2nd. __________________ OTBA: Washington Filibusters CLBR: Minnesota Twins 2005 Winner of LL's Pick the Loser Contest! - 15-0

10-04-2007, 10:27 PM	#18
PlayTheKids Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 116	Kaz would never have done this in New York. Not in a million years. He was thoroughly overwhelmed there.

10-05-2007, 08:38 AM	#20
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	It seems to me that modern managers all struggle with bullpen management. It must be one of the most difficult areas of the game to deal with. You've got to weigh strategy, fatigue, and a variety of other factors. Personally, I think the way starting pitchers are treated like fragile glass figurines is a bit much. A hundred pitches isn't that much, really. Thirty years ago guys pitched complete games regularly and many still did it every four days. I think some guys can do that, even today, but these days it's assumed that no one can. If you can have a starter get through 7 innings regularly, bullpen management becomes much easier. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils