Reward: $$$ for a roster set the community approves of

[f.montoya]

Well this is my pledge. After a person, that shall remain nameless, has been banned and has hyped the the community into a state to where the very existence of a roster set has been all but doubted, I'm willing to offer the author of a 2007 roster set, that the community approves of, $100.00

Now that may not seem like a whole lot but here is where the challenge to the rest of the community comes in...

If you are just as serious about getting a quality 2007 roster set that is more than just playable, I dare you to put your money where your mouth is.

I believe I'm trusted here on the OOTP boards so here's how it will work...

1. Post here whatever $$ amount you want to pledge.
2. Send it to fidel @ montoyahome . com (remove spaces) via PayPal
3. A running total will be updated daily here in this thread as I confirm submitted funds.
4. The person(s) who manage to get a roster set that 75% of the community here approves of will take home all of the pledges/donations.
5. Roster makers have to release their set at midnight EDT, 3 days before of the beginning of the real MLB playoffs.
6. During a two week review by the public, a poll will be made public where users will vote on who will receive the donation.

Now this could grow to a very substantial amount of a donation for someone who can deliver. If no other member of the community is willing to contribute, my $100 stands. Period.

Let it be known that this is a legal offer and purely a donation to the contributer who comes through.

EDIT: Due to the general feelings expressed in this thread, with which I agree, I will withdraw this "reward" until/unless we can come up with a more appropriate solution regarding construction and release of a real roster set...which may or may not become a reality until next season.

[1998 Yankees]

This sets a bad precedent, IMO. Are you speaking solely for yourself or are you acting on behalf of SI? Either way, you are putting a dollar value on modifications that have been donated out of community spirit up until now. Moreover, that unseemly display may be repeated, even worse, now that money is involved. Finally, I do not see what the hubbub is about anyway. Are there not quality 2007 rosters already available? Is it not September already, with the 2007 season 5/6 complete?

[f.montoya]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

This sets a bad precedent, IMO. Are you speaking solely for yourself or are you acting on behalf of SI? Either way, you are putting a dollar value on modifications that have been donated out of community spirit up until now. Moreover, that unseemly display may be repeated, even worse, now that money is involved. Finally, I do not see what the hubbub is about anyway. Are there not quality 2007 rosters already available? Is it not September already, with the 2007 season 5/6 complete?

Yep. Agreed. But to answer your question, I'm acting for myself. I do not and never have worked for SI. However, with the amount of complaining that has gone on regarding current roster sets, or lack thereof, it is just an incentive that I am willing to contribute to this project.

If it is a bad idea, I'm more than willing to forget the whole thing. But how about it being seen more as a contest? Or shall we do this for '08? OOTP 2007 is a different monster and roster sets will never be as easy(although not exactly easy) as they were to make in earlier versions.

[Eugene Church]

I have found that volunteer labor is not always dependable.

It can be a hit-or-miss affair.

If you want something done the way you want it and delivered when you want it, you need to pay people.

I don't use roster sets, but Fidel's suggestion might be a solution.

[f.montoya]

As another 12 minutes goes by, I just thought it wise to say I will retract this offer if the community at large thinks I should. Otherwise, my $100 donation will stand.

I will pledge $10 if the roster set has accurate major and minor leagues. If they threw the *** in there for added measure then all the better. I've always donated to mod makers in the past who created things I used heavily. So, I have no problem doing this and I have no problem that it's being suggested. The people who selflessly give up their free time to create things that enhance my pleasure with my favorite PC game deserve something for their efforts.

So, consider the offer to be up to $110 now.

[TNCubsFan]

I dont like the contest portion of it. A bit to High Schoolish to me voting for the most popular set. However I wouldnt be upset if I had to pay for a roster set that passed certain benchmarks. That however walks a fine line where lawyers love to tread I am sure.

I agree with 98 Yankees that this is something for Marcus and company to work out with some folks and doing this, this way, sets up problems. I just see this as an opportunity for flamewars and turf battles especially between the supporters of rival sets that dont win.

[1998 Yankees]

If it comes down to this, I'd rather spend the additional $10 or $20 and have SI do it officially.

Think of it: What is the incentive for anybody to do anything here without being paid if this is to be the approach? The great community spirit was one of the reasons that I became active here, in order to thank the people who had done such wonderful work for me to enjoy. Right now, this sense of community is the only thing bringing me back here.

My conviction was shaken, however, by the ugly nonsense that was going on over that promised roster set. It was obvious that the guy really had nothing to offer, but people were outraged not by the lack of a roster set but by being yanked around for months and taken for fools. I could not blame them, but the roster set was not the main issue, I firmly believe.

Imagine if money were at stake now, and modders did a ton of work only to be told that somebody thought to be more popular was awarded the "prize" for work perceived to be inferior.

Besides losing the charming aspect of volunteerism that, to me at least, is unique, I too am concerned about "flamewars and turf battles especially between the supporters of rival sets that dont win."

This is just my opinion, but I urge my fellow members not to go down this path.

[treedom]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

If it comes down to this, I'd rather spend the additional $10 or $20 and have SI do it officially.

I am firmly against this. I have zero interest in real players, and I do not want to spend an extra cent on OOTP due to real players being included.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by treedom

I am firmly against this. I have zero interest in real players, and I do not want to spend an extra cent on OOTP due to real players being included.

Would it be bad marketing if it were a premium option, then? Buyer to pay SI an additional fee for actual rosters, if desired?

[TNCubsFan]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Would it be bad marketing if it were a premium option, then? Buyer to pay SI an additional fee for actual rosters, if desired?

That is the route I would like to see taken. The fly in the honey however is MLB and the MLBPA and the legions of their lawyers if SI did it. I am also thinking that 30 or 40 dollars might be the cost just to the number of expected sales.

[treedom]

I feel that the best approach is for Markus to add features in the next version which aid roster development. My impression is that it has become a much more difficult task with the past couple versions, so if it was simplified we would see a return to timely and good quality rosters being released by the community.

[ihatenames]

Well this has inspired me to give it a shot. I'll be working a festival all week as a volunteer but after this week I will get started on a set. For the record the $100 isn't the motivation. In fact, i don't expect nor want the $100. I'm just going to do my part to help the community. They game was so good this year I'm disappointed that roster sets never really panned out. So I'm going to give it a good shot. I've never done a set on my own so if it's too much for me to handle I'll let you know rather than string you along.

EDIT: I should be able to start it tonight and work on it a few hours a day while working the festival. I'm actually pretty excited to start it. I've been looking for an excuse to do one of these.

[deadringer]

If this wasn't September, I'd be all over this. As it is now, I'm not sure I'd want to pay too much for a roster set based on a season pretty much over. I've been playing and enjoying Rolen's 2006 set since I firrst got OOTPB2007 and I'll probably just stick with that.

With that being said, I have to admit that I'd easily pay a whole lot more per OOTP version if it had an accurate opening day roster set included with all the photo, logo, and stadium trimmings included. How much more would depend on the quality of the roster.

This is the one area where I don't prefer the 06/07 versions. It's one of the few things that I missed the most about version 6 and newer.

[shortd81]

Working On One

[DougWyatt]

Originally Posted by TNCubsFan

The fly in the honey however is MLB and the MLBPA and the legions of their lawyers if SI did it. .

Aaargh.

I'm tired of people passing this off as a deterent for SI.

MLB LOST in court to a fantasy baseball organization. The players of the league, and their statistics ARE NOT property of MLB. The public may use them freely, and may even profit in doing so. There is no legal risk for SI putting out a roster set at this time.

The only catch is team names, logos, etc. They do belong to MLB. But those things are EASY to edit. Changing the Detroit Bengals to the Detroit Tigers, and slapping in the logos into a roster set would be easy stuff.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by ihatenames

Well this has inspired me to give it a shot. I'll be working a festival all week as a volunteer but after this week I will get started on a set. For the record the $100 isn't the motivation. In fact, i don't expect nor want the $100. I'm just going to do my part to help the community.

That's the "spirit."

It's not the money. Some of us would pay and some would not, but that's immaterial. It's the idea of all of us helping to make OOTP the best baseball sim game ever with our suggestions, feedback, online leagues, and modifications. The fact that SI also benefits from this does not bother me so far. We benefit, and it still feels like a collaborative effort with Markus, Andreas, and the rest of the gang.

OP's idea does not lend to this, IMO.

[Tony M]

If only it was easier to build a game up from scratch outside of the game. But hopefully it will be with 2008.

[bp_]

I think I heard somewhere that Apujols is making a set...

[Kaitiaki]

Originally Posted by DougWyatt

Aaargh.

I'm tired of people passing this off as a deterent for SI.

MLB LOST in court to a fantasy baseball organization. The players of the league, and their statistics ARE NOT property of MLB. The public may use them freely, and may even profit in doing so. There is no legal risk for SI putting out a roster set at this time.

You need to brush up on your facts, because that statement is absolutely untrue. Yes, MLB lost. Then they appealed the decision. That appeal process is still going on. So absolutely nothing has been settled yet.

From this Sports Illustrated article, the appeal was only heard on June 15th of this year, with a decision expected three to six months after then (so, sometime between September 15th and December 15th of this year). And even should MLB lose the appeal, they have further recourse:

That will represent the final decision unless one of the parties seeks en banc review from the 8th Circuit or Supreme Court review.

Blame the legal system for its laborious and byzantine appeals process if you want, but the incontestable reality of the moment remains that use of real players and real statistics for a commercial baseball product not licensed by MLB/MLBPA remains legally dubious at best.

- Kai