free agency needs to be fixed

[tb62388]

I haven't been on the boards in a while so i'm not sure what discussions there have been, but I am really starting to get tired of the free agency problems.

There are far too many guys that go in, asking for 20 million dollars, that end up signing for barely anything. I know that stuff like this can happen in real life, but its rare. In Ootp, there are like 5 guys every year that sign for way less than they should (because they originally asked for 20 million), or they sit out the entire year after free agency. I really miss the Old OOTP free agency now.

In an online league, where we sim 10 days at a time, Shawn Green was a free agent. Pretty good but old, I would expect he could get anywhere from 8-10 million for a few eyars. I check to see what he wants, and he wants 21 million a year for a few years. (he was a 3 star player). Thats absurd, unexplainable, and just plain stupid. With 2 sims left in free agency and no offers made for him, i offer 7 million ofr the upcoming year, he declines, laughin at my offer. After the final sim, he ends up signing for 3.1 million...3.1 million. Time and time again this would happen in my offline league with my brother. Perrenial all stars sitting out years because they woudl ask for too much. My brother was able to sign the 2 best free agents to small offers because they would get no other offers.

I had so much fun in the old OOTP's free agency, where it felt more liek a bidding process. Nearly everyone would get offers adn they woudl escalate until one team won him. That was a great system and more realistic too. Guys donn't go for close their market value in the new OOTP, they ask for way too much, and if they dont get it, they lower their demand to nothing. Ive seen it in all types of leagues.

All I want is the old system back, it was simple, fun, and it worked. This new system doesn't work, guys dont ask for their market value, they over value themselves, and sometimes way undervalue. Even in online leagues it doens't matter, as I desribed about shawn green above.

It needs to be fixed. period.

[tb62388]

also just want to add that I love the game. If it wasn't for this, in my mind, this game would be perfect.

I remember my first timeplayin OOTP 4, I wanted to get a big time free agent my first year. I got inot a long bidding war for Pedro Martinez that started aroudn 10 million a year. Before I knew it, i was offering 17.5 million a year for him, and eventually got him. It was so much fun, and i never had a problem with that system.

[zekester91]

Originally Posted by tb62388

I haven't been on the boards in a while so i'm not sure what discussions there have been, but I am really starting to get tired of the free agency problems.

There are far too many guys that go in, asking for 20 million dollars, that end up signing for barely anything. I know that stuff like this can happen in real life, but its rare. In Ootp, there are like 5 guys every year that sign for way less than they should (because they originally asked for 20 million), or they sit out the entire year after free agency. I really miss the Old OOTP free agency now.

In an online league, where we sim 10 days at a time, Shawn Green was a free agent. Pretty good but old, I would expect he could get anywhere from 8-10 million for a few eyars. I check to see what he wants, and he wants 21 million a year for a few years. (he was a 3 star player). Thats absurd, unexplainable, and just plain stupid. With 2 sims left in free agency and no offers made for him, i offer 7 million ofr the upcoming year, he declines, laughin at my offer. After the final sim, he ends up signing for 3.1 million...3.1 million. Time and time again this would happen in my offline league with my brother. Perrenial all stars sitting out years because they woudl ask for too much. My brother was able to sign the 2 best free agents to small offers because they would get no other offers.

I had so much fun in the old OOTP's free agency, where it felt more liek a bidding process. Nearly everyone would get offers adn they woudl escalate until one team won him. That was a great system and more realistic too. Guys donn't go for close their market value in the new OOTP, they ask for way too much, and if they dont get it, they lower their demand to nothing. Ive seen it in all types of leagues.

All I want is the old system back, it was simple, fun, and it worked. This new system doesn't work, guys dont ask for their market value, they over value themselves, and sometimes way undervalue. Even in online leagues it doens't matter, as I desribed about shawn green above.

It needs to be fixed. period.

How much free cash is floating around in these leagues, in the new OOTP world Free agents know how much cash is out there and try and get the most money they can. The real problem is that they don't lower thier expectations until the free agent period is over. What needs to happen is players expectations need to be updated at least once a week during FA. Using "revenue Sharing", keeps a max amount of cash out in the world and can drive down these early expectations....

[RchW]

Hmm... I must be missing something here. From your description it sounds like FA worked perfectly.

Shawn Green an aging former star mis-judges the market and overprices himself. All owners recognize this (are they all human?) and he gets no offers until the last FA sim. He then signs for a fraction of what he wants but probably no more than he is worth.

You mention players sitting out seasons. How many? Are they legitimate super stars or faded veterans? It would be different if a 25 year old pitcher with 100 ratings across the board was left sitting. This happened also in v6.5 especially players with declining talent.

I have heard of leagues where some financial thing was wacko and that resulted in FA's not signing. Have you checked the finances of the league?

I'm not patronizing you or dismissing your concerns. Maybe I'm not seeing it correctly.

[tb62388]

the problem is, the players or "agents" are just being plain dumb. I offered Shawn Green over double of what he ended up getting. I also believe strongly that if these players, at least in onlin leagues, started at a more reasonable price, they woudl be bidded up to a better price. Shawn Green should not have gone for that much when I offered him way more only a week before.

I have had many leagues, fictional, non fictional, historical and this happens too much. 30 year olds should not sit out seasons. The best free agents shouldn't ask for 25 million a year, and then end up signing for 5 million at the end of free agency.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by tb62388

the problem is, the players or "agents" are just being plain dumb. I offered Shawn Green over double of what he ended up getting. I also believe strongly that if these players, at least in onlin leagues, started at a more reasonable price, they woudl be bidded up to a better price. Shawn Green should not have gone for that much when I offered him way more only a week before.

I have had many leagues, fictional, non fictional, historical and this happens too much. 30 year olds should not sit out seasons. The best free agents shouldn't ask for 25 million a year, and then end up signing for 5 million at the end of free agency.

The week before he thought he could get more. Also the game AI occasionally screws you by refusing better offers. That happened all the time in v6.5 online leagues.

Many online league commisioners used exactly this tactic in v6.5 (they simmed 25 of the 30 days of FA with no offers) in order to hold down salary demands.

I agree 30 year olds should not sit out seasons, but it would help if you could be more specific. How many sit out out of how many FA? How do they rank in the league? By position?

If you have several top 5 players at different positions sitting out a season then there is a problem. If it is some decent player in the decline phase asking for $15-$20M for 5 years then maybe not.

[biggamejrs]

I think after the player realizes his value is not where he thought, he would contact the teams that made him any offer. Like in the example above, before he agreed to the 3.1, if he had sent an email to see if tou were still interested for the 7. mil. Like the player should have a "memory" of his offers.

[tb62388]

I could go and find specific examples, but there are just so many that its not really necessary.

A lot of tiomes you can tell which guys this is going to happen to, it happens to guys that are either 3 stars, maybe 4, that ask for 20 million and above. Sometimes it can happen to five star guys who ask for upwards of 28 million in my fictional league. Some of these gusy are clearly not worth that much, the computer is generally pretty good about not offering the guys who are asking for too much, eventually they all of the sudden lower their demands greatly.

Its not necessarily a problem with the system, but maybe more of how guys value themselves. I had a guy who was a 9 of 10 contact, 27, with decent power and eye. He had a good year the year before, and was askign for 7 million a year. With guys askin for 20 million left and right, he was clearly a bargain. I made him his wanted contract, after a couple weeks he signed. Sure, I liked it, but he clearly shoulda been bidded up.

It just seems like players make bad contract demands, and generally one team bites and its over. If they dont, in february they ask for 1 quarter of what they wanted before.

I just wonder what was wrong with the old system that was in oot4, ootp5....how is this better? and if it is better, guys need to make better demands.

[tb62388]

I could go and find specific examples, but there are just so many that its not really necessary.

A lot of tiomes you can tell which guys this is going to happen to, it happens to guys that are either 3 stars, maybe 4, that ask for 20 million and above. Sometimes it can happen to five star guys who ask for upwards of 28 million in my fictional league. Some of these gusy are clearly not worth that much, the computer is generally pretty good about not offering the guys who are asking for too much, eventually they all of the sudden lower their demands greatly.

Its not necessarily a problem with the system, but maybe more of how guys value themselves. I had a guy who was a 9 of 10 contact, 27, with decent power and eye. He had a good year the year before, and was askign for 7 million a year. With guys askin for 20 million left and right, he was clearly a bargain. I made him his wanted contract, after a couple weeks he signed. Sure, I liked it, but he clearly shoulda been bidded up.

It just seems like players make bad contract demands, and generally one team bites and its over. If they dont, in february they ask for 1 quarter of what they wanted before.

I just wonder what was wrong with the old system that was in oot4, ootp5....how is this better? and if it is better, guys need to make better demands.

[Mattymo]

I don't mind guys signing for lower than what they were asking for, after all, they want to play and get paid for it, rather than sitting out.

I remember back in a OOTP3 season, the best player in baseball at the time (it was a fictional league) sat out the entire year and I hated it...never would that happen in real life. He ended up retiring after he never got an offer that he liked.

[tb62388]

Originally Posted by Mattymo

I don't mind guys signing for lower than what they were asking for, after all, they want to play and get paid for it, rather than sitting out.

I remember back in a OOTP3 season, the best player in baseball at the time (it was a fictional league) sat out the entire year and I hated it...never would that happen in real life. He ended up retiring after he never got an offer that he liked.

welll my main problem si that shawn green turned down 6 million just to sign for 3 million a week later...players/agents NEED to be smarter

[never_ends]

Everything you have written above is exactly what I see every season.

All you have to do is wait until April 1 and offer any future Hall of Fame player left in free agency anywhere from 2.5M to 5M a season and they will sign April 2. I signed one for 2.5M a season - 5 years. He was asking 15M-20M during the off season.

Related problem... the day the season started another team signed a future Hall of Fame catcher still sitting in free agency, paid 6M for a one year deal. Then, 30 days later signed the guy to an extension, 7 years - 120M. Doesn't make much sense. The team could have signed him for 6M a year - 7 years the day the season started but instead did a 1 year deal. Could have paid him 120M for 7 years the day free agency started also.

The same season I let a MR go into free agency because he wanted 7M a year to re-sign. On April 2 he signed a 3 year deal with my team for 1.5M a year, many other examples like these.

Within 2-3 years you wind up with an all dominating team with great players signing long term contracts for cheap. Have to put in another house rule of some sort for this one.

[tb62388]

Originally Posted by never_ends

Everything you have written above is exactly what I see every season.

All you have to do is wait until April 1 and offer any future Hall of Fame player left in free agency anywhere from 2.5M to 5M a season and they will sign April 2. I signed one for 2.5M a season - 5 years. He was asking 15M-20M during the off season.

Related problem... the day the season started another team signed a future Hall of Fame catcher still sitting in free agency, paid 6M for a one year deal. Then, 30 days later signed the guy to an extension, 7 years - 120M. Doesn't make much sense. The team could have signed him for 6M a year - 7 years the day the season started but instead did a 1 year deal. Could have paid him 120M for 7 years the day free agency started also.

The same season I let a MR go into free agency because he wanted 7M a year to re-sign. On April 2 he signed a 3 year deal with my team for 1.5M a year, many other examples like these.

Within 2-3 years you wind up with an all dominating team with great players signing long term contracts for cheap. Have to put in another house rule of some sort for this one.

Ya, I didn't realize it for awhile what was going on, but now I do. And its definately soemthign that needs to be addressed. I really hope someone notices this because this game is almost perfect.

[DougWyatt]

I agree. Well, at least I think I do (if I'm understanding it right).

For me, perfect would be to have two salary requests by a player. One hidden (an absolute minimum - what he would sign for in the middle of the season) - and one that he tells "the press" - (what he expects). The player would then always accept the current highest bid, but announce that he's still shopping (until he receives an offer comparable to his expectations). Also, have him always wait a couple days after an offer to see if it was outbid.

This would let each free agent collect his max offer.

[Long_Long_Name]

I think that players sitting out entire seasons is much more problematic than players settling for very little. I've had a league where most stars would do the same thing: get drafted, play 3 years of minimum wage, then 3 of arbitration, and the moment they hit FA, no one would sign them. They'd stay free agents for a year or two, and then retire at 27 years old.

Part of the problem might've been that in previous versions, some players made ridiculously low demands, which enabled a bidding war. The same player, absolutely identical with the same finances in OOTP6 could be asking for 12 millions, and now for 21. I agree with you that there's a significant problem when a player would laugh at your face if you made an offer of 7 million dollars when NOBODY ELSE HAD MADE A SINGLE OFFER AFTER A SIGNIFICANT PERIOD OF TIME. If a player wants 21 million dollars... fine. However, if no one offers that to him after a month, dude, wake up, you're not going to get 21 million dollars. If someone offers 14 million dollars, don't turn him down. I agree that the principle is very good, that a player knows the finances of the league and has a perception of what he is worth, but Markus might've made the dudes much too greedy and stubborn. I wouldn't mind that as an exception, but it definitely shouldn't be the norm, most players should adapt much better to the market.

[tb62388]

Originally Posted by DougWyatt

I agree. Well, at least I think I do (if I'm understanding it right).

For me, perfect would be to have two salary requests by a player. One hidden (an absolute minimum - what he would sign for in the middle of the season) - and one that he tells "the press" - (what he expects). The player would then always accept the current highest bid, but announce that he's still shopping (until he receives an offer comparable to his expectations). Also, have him always wait a couple days after an offer to see if it was outbid.

This would let each free agent collect his max offer.

Perfect.

I'd love this.

[tb62388]

I'd also like to add to that.

If someone isn't getting what they want, they shoudl still have a favorite offer. They can still wait an extremely long amount of time for another offer, and if they dont get one all the way up to the season, then its probably time to sign.

[ctorg]

I partially agree. There were flaws with the old system as well, but I did like the sense of having a bidding war. I actually found it more difficult to get guys I wanted in OOTP6 because it seemed like the AI would constantly outbid me by just a little bit. In OOTP2007, I feel like once I get that "I like your offer but let me wait it out a bit" e-mail, the only time I end up not getting the guy is during the winter meetings. The free agency period in older versions felt much more dynamic.

[Erithtotl]

I would like to point out a related problem is that a lot of players will ask for half their free agent value when resigning with their current team. While I like being able to resign my superstar A-Rod type SS to a 10M a year deal at age 26 for 5 years, I know that if he knew in real life he could get 23M a year he'd test the waters. Once in a blue moon this is ok but it's actually quite frequently.

[tb62388]

Originally Posted by Erithtotl

I would like to point out a related problem is that a lot of players will ask for half their free agent value when resigning with their current team. While I like being able to resign my superstar A-Rod type SS to a 10M a year deal at age 26 for 5 years, I know that if he knew in real life he could get 23M a year he'd test the waters. Once in a blue moon this is ok but it's actually quite frequently.

I haven't actually noticed it, they seem to ask me for as much as they ask for in free agency. Maybe it has to do with loyalty and greed? i'm not sure.