All Star 500 Homerun Hitting MVP Unknown?

Althius · 04-16-2007, 01:07 PM

Scott Glover recently hit Homerun number 500. He is a 6 time All-Star and 3 time MVP.

From his SION Report:

Local Popularity (National) Unknown (Unknown)

Not a player on my team. Playing in a universe with 80 years of simmed history.

Known bug? Fluke?

ctorg · 04-17-2007, 08:07 AM

There definitely are some issues that need ironing out. I just had my fan interest crash because I didn't re-sign an extremely popular middle reliever I'd picked up at the trade deadline who pitched five innings for my team and gave up seven runs in that time. That's incredibly unrealistic. No matter how popular a guy is, if he doesn't play or if he performs very badly, fans won't miss him much.

In the same season, I also let a "well known" guy who happened to win my team's triple crown go, and he caused less of a stir by leaving than the MR.

Ksyrup · 04-18-2007, 02:55 PM

Yeah, I get the feeling some of this stuff is random, and when you drill down, certain specific instances just don't make sense. The feature itself is great, but I'm not entirely sure it is implemented as well as it should be.

Case in point - the demand trade feature. I'm playing with historical rosters in 1970, having started with the 1969 Expos. I have Maury Wills on my team. In 1970, he's a 37-year old, light-hitting SS who is obviously best known for his speed. He's coming off a .235 year, and his career highs in HRs and RBIs were 6 and 48, respectively (back about 78 years ago). So I get an email from him in January telling me that he's pissed I'm not using him as a #3 or #4 hitter in the lineup and he wants a trade.

Um....wha?

So I did what any right-minded GM would do in this situation...I changed his position to Closer and released his ass.

Great feature, but appears to be implemented in a semi-random way.

Nutlaw · 05-06-2007, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Althius

Scott Glover recently hit Homerun number 500. He is a 6 time All-Star and 3 time MVP.

From his SION Report:

Local Popularity (National) Unknown (Unknown)

Not a player on my team. Playing in a universe with 80 years of simmed history.

Known bug? Fluke?

How old was this guy, Althius? Had he already gotten old and fallen apart as a player?

Althius · 05-06-2007, 05:28 PM

He was 39, and yes he was certainly on the tail end of a great career. He retired the next year, and was not inducted into the Hall.

Also I realized he was only MVP in the bigs once, and all-star 5 times.

Nutlaw · 05-06-2007, 05:48 PM

Yeah, see popularity really only gauges how much the fans want to see him play for your team. You wouldn't break their hearts if you cut ties with a washed up old guy who no longer deserved a roster spot. I'm sure that his popularity was much higher in the prime of his career.

Althius · 05-06-2007, 06:29 PM

Not trying to nit-pick here... but UNKNOWN? Isn't that a little silly?

I may not care much for Sammy Sosa, but I certainly know who he is, and if my team traded for him tomorrow, I guantee you it would make some noise in the local papers, as opposed to say some carer minor leaguer.

In fact I just checked my current fictional team and 18 of the 25 men on my roster are "UNKOWN" locally... including my 21 year old 3 STAR 4.5 POTENTIAL starting pitcher. Does it really make sense that he is UNKNOWN?

Personally I think that the popularity scale needs to be tweaked a bit...

magnet · 05-06-2007, 06:49 PM

if player.awardwon = true
or
if player.serviceyears >= 5
then
player.popularity > Unknown

Nutlaw · 05-06-2007, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Althius

Not trying to nit-pick here... but UNKNOWN? Isn't that a little silly?

I may not care much for Sammy Sosa, but I certainly know who he is, and if my team traded for him tomorrow, I guantee you it would make some noise in the local papers, as opposed to say some carer minor leaguer.

In fact I just checked my current fictional team and 18 of the 25 men on my roster are "UNKOWN" locally... including my 21 year old 3 STAR 4.5 POTENTIAL starting pitcher. Does it really make sense that he is UNKNOWN?

Personally I think that the popularity scale needs to be tweaked a bit...

Yes, but will some fans stop coming to see the Rangers if they cut Sammy today? That's what player popularity measures.

Has your 21-year-old SP done anything of note in the majors yet?

Curtis · 05-06-2007, 10:35 PM

I think the problem here is one of nomenclature. You see, 'unknown' in terms of popularity doesn't mean what we in the real world think of as unknown. It really means 'uninterested'. If the fans don't care about a guy one way or the other, he gets listed as 'unknown'.

I would recommend that Markus change the word choice to 'uninterested', 'neutral' or something similar.

DougWyatt · 05-06-2007, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curtis

I think the problem here is one of nomenclature. You see, 'unknown' in terms of popularity doesn't mean what we in the real world think of as unknown. It really means 'uninterested'. If the fans don't care about a guy one way or the other, he gets listed as 'unknown'.

I would recommend that Markus change the word choice to 'uninterested', 'neutral' or something similar.

This is how I've thought of it too. And a good recommendation.

From my experience (no testing - just a couple universes), the popularity seems to follow a curve - with the players real "productive" years being the peak. Before they, they build to popularity, and after peak - they decline. This curve seems to pretty accurately depict how fans would react to losing or gaining these players during certain points in their careers.

Mr. Capo · 05-07-2007, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

Yeah, see popularity really only gauges how much the fans want to see him play for your team. You wouldn't break their hearts if you cut ties with a washed up old guy who no longer deserved a roster spot. I'm sure that his popularity was much higher in the prime of his career.

In my experience, fans continue to LOVE former superstar players who are way past their prime, especially when those players have played most or all of their career with that team.

Althius · 05-07-2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Capo

In my experience, fans continue to LOVE former superstar players who are way past their prime, especially when those players have played most or all of their career with that team.

I agree with this, and while we're on the subject, the pendulum can swing in the other direction too. Perhaps popularity should have a NEGATIVE scale too.

Think of the big free agent signing that everyone is excited about, but once the player underperforms, the fans' love turns to hate... and the longer they keep him around, the more the unrest builds.

briantheiceberg · 05-07-2007, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Althius

I agree with this, and while we're on the subject, the pendulum can swing in the other direction too. Perhaps popularity should have a NEGATIVE scale too.

Think of the big free agent signing that everyone is excited about, but once the player underperforms, the fans' love turns to hate... and the longer they keep him around, the more the unrest builds.

Arod prior to this April?

Nutlaw · 05-07-2007, 06:10 PM

Well anyway, I believe that this feature is working as intended in these instances. Talented, proven players in their prime cause significant shifts in team popularity, and thus attendance. Furthermore, there is some randomness involved, as some players are just more likeable than others.

ctorg · 05-10-2007, 10:45 AM

Perhaps it would be better if it was a numerical rating instead of a text rating or something so that people wouldn't get hung up on terminology (like "unknown). It would be easier to say that a guy went from being a 5 in popularity to a 1 than he went from being popular to unknown, which doesn't make logical sense when you say it.

04-16-2007, 01:07 PM	#1
Althius Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 102	All Star 500 Homerun Hitting MVP Unknown? Scott Glover recently hit Homerun number 500. He is a 6 time All-Star and 3 time MVP. From his SION Report: Local Popularity (National) Unknown (Unknown) Not a player on my team. Playing in a universe with 80 years of simmed history. Known bug? Fluke?

04-17-2007, 08:07 AM	#2
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	There definitely are some issues that need ironing out. I just had my fan interest crash because I didn't re-sign an extremely popular middle reliever I'd picked up at the trade deadline who pitched five innings for my team and gave up seven runs in that time. That's incredibly unrealistic. No matter how popular a guy is, if he doesn't play or if he performs very badly, fans won't miss him much. In the same season, I also let a "well known" guy who happened to win my team's triple crown go, and he caused less of a stir by leaving than the MR. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils Last edited by ctorg; 04-17-2007 at 08:09 AM.

05-07-2007, 06:10 PM	#15
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	Well anyway, I believe that this feature is working as intended in these instances. Talented, proven players in their prime cause significant shifts in team popularity, and thus attendance. Furthermore, there is some randomness involved, as some players are just more likeable than others. Last edited by Nutlaw; 05-07-2007 at 06:12 PM.

05-10-2007, 10:45 AM	#16
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Perhaps it would be better if it was a numerical rating instead of a text rating or something so that people wouldn't get hung up on terminology (like "unknown). It would be easier to say that a guy went from being a 5 in popularity to a 1 than he went from being popular to unknown, which doesn't make logical sense when you say it. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

04-18-2007, 02:55 PM	#3
Ksyrup Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 413	Yeah, I get the feeling some of this stuff is random, and when you drill down, certain specific instances just don't make sense. The feature itself is great, but I'm not entirely sure it is implemented as well as it should be. Case in point - the demand trade feature. I'm playing with historical rosters in 1970, having started with the 1969 Expos. I have Maury Wills on my team. In 1970, he's a 37-year old, light-hitting SS who is obviously best known for his speed. He's coming off a .235 year, and his career highs in HRs and RBIs were 6 and 48, respectively (back about 78 years ago). So I get an email from him in January telling me that he's pissed I'm not using him as a #3 or #4 hitter in the lineup and he wants a trade. Um....wha? So I did what any right-minded GM would do in this situation...I changed his position to Closer and released his ass. Great feature, but appears to be implemented in a semi-random way. Last edited by Ksyrup; 04-18-2007 at 02:56 PM.

05-06-2007, 05:28 PM	#5
Althius Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 102	He was 39, and yes he was certainly on the tail end of a great career. He retired the next year, and was not inducted into the Hall. Also I realized he was only MVP in the bigs once, and all-star 5 times.

05-06-2007, 05:48 PM	#6
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	Yeah, see popularity really only gauges how much the fans want to see him play for your team. You wouldn't break their hearts if you cut ties with a washed up old guy who no longer deserved a roster spot. I'm sure that his popularity was much higher in the prime of his career.

05-06-2007, 06:29 PM	#7
Althius Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 102	Not trying to nit-pick here... but UNKNOWN? Isn't that a little silly? I may not care much for Sammy Sosa, but I certainly know who he is, and if my team traded for him tomorrow, I guantee you it would make some noise in the local papers, as opposed to say some carer minor leaguer. In fact I just checked my current fictional team and 18 of the 25 men on my roster are "UNKOWN" locally... including my 21 year old 3 STAR 4.5 POTENTIAL starting pitcher. Does it really make sense that he is UNKNOWN? Personally I think that the popularity scale needs to be tweaked a bit...

05-06-2007, 06:49 PM	#8
magnet Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,029	if player.awardwon = true or if player.serviceyears >= 5 then player.popularity > Unknown

05-06-2007, 10:35 PM	#10
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	I think the problem here is one of nomenclature. You see, 'unknown' in terms of popularity doesn't mean what we in the real world think of as unknown. It really means 'uninterested'. If the fans don't care about a guy one way or the other, he gets listed as 'unknown'. I would recommend that Markus change the word choice to 'uninterested', 'neutral' or something similar.