My first day impression: the interface still sucks

[KurtBevacqua]

Played the demo last night, bought the game this morning, have been playing it all day. There are some dramatic improvements to historic play I really love. But the bottom line is the interface is still crap. I still have a hard time clicking and dragging guys to the right place in the lineups page. I still sometime have to click two or three times to get a screen up. The menus are still counter-intuitive. I'm not having anymore fun playing this version than last years. And my critique remains the same as last year. All the bells and whistles are fabulous. This game has even more of all the features I ever dared dream of in a baseball sim, and the interface is still so bad that I don't enjoy playing it.

I intend to dive all in to league play with this game, so in the end it will be worth the purchase. But for solo play it's just not anymore fun to play than last year's game.

[Scoman]

[Marc Duffy]

So, tell me what needs to happen?

How can we speed screen access up for you?
Why are menus counter intuitive?
What is the key for us to make the lineups screen better?

I'm fine with you saying the interface is crap - but I need answers from you on how we can fix it?

[Claymore]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

So, tell me what needs to happen?

How can we speed screen access up for you?
Why are menus counter intuitive?
What is the key for us to make the lineups screen better?

I'm fine with you saying the interface is crap - but I need answers from you on how we can fix it?

Cough...Not having to go to two separate sections to get an exhibition game going would be sooooo nice for one.....cough.....

Seriously, lots of little things like this would make the game so much easier.....

[KurtBevacqua]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

So, tell me what needs to happen?

How can we speed screen access up for you?
Why are menus counter intuitive?
What is the key for us to make the lineups screen better?

I'm fine with you saying the interface is crap - but I need answers from you on how we can fix it?

The fact that I have to move my number one spot starter down to number two and then swap out with the guy I put into number one because I can't seem to directly put anyone into the number two spot is just a starter. It's things like that. The interface isn't crisp. I'm clicking and dragging guys all over the screen to get them into their spot and it's not working.

Also, is there a late inning defensive replacement option? I've been looking all day for it and have yet to find it. What about setting pinch hitters? Haven't found that one yet either.

Something that would be cool none of the games have gone after; pinch runners. Still waiting for that.

And where are the era settings? Haven't found that after looking for it all day.

If you could take the 6.51 interface and mate it with this games various options you'd have the greatest sports sim ever made.

[Solonor]

Originally Posted by KurtBevacqua

Also, is there a late inning defensive replacement option? I've been looking all day for it and have yet to find it.

Lineups & Depth Charts screen. Far right on each depth chart.

Originally Posted by KurtBevacqua

What about setting pinch hitters? Haven't found that one yet either.

I miss that option, too. Hope it comes back.

Originally Posted by KurtBevacqua

And where are the era settings? Haven't found that after looking for it all day.

Game Setup -> League Setup -> Strategy tab (Import settings).

[redmarkYankees]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

I'm fine with you saying the interface is crap - but I need answers from you on how we can fix it?

While many OOTP players who dislike the interface say it's the 'FM style', as a long-time FM player, I think OOTP hasn't taken the best parts from FM.

The left (or right) contextual navigation panel (in FM) is excellent, well worth the loss of a little width. The screen design in FM is more consistent. Too often with OOTP, going from one screen to another goes from 'game' screen to web browser screen, from one style of layour to another, from one type of drop downs/buttons to another.

[KurtBevacqua]

Originally Posted by redmarkYankees

While many OOTP players who dislike the interface say it's the 'FM style', as a long-time FM player, I think OOTP hasn't taken the best parts from FM.

The left (or right) contextual navigation panel (in FM) is excellent, well worth the loss of a little width. The screen design in FM is more consistent. Too often with OOTP, going from one screen to another goes from 'game' screen to web browser screen, from one style of layour to another, from one type of drop downs/buttons to another.

Spot on. I'm an FM player as well and have to say the FM interface is miles ahead of this. While FM and OOTP share a lot of the same applets and such, the games are at opposite ends of the playability scale. FM is great fun to play, OOTP is tedious.

[udbacker58]

Originally Posted by redmarkYankees

While many OOTP players who dislike the interface say it's the 'FM style', as a long-time FM player, I think OOTP hasn't taken the best parts from FM.

The left (or right) contextual navigation panel (in FM) is excellent, well worth the loss of a little width. The screen design in FM is more consistent. Too often with OOTP, going from one screen to another goes from 'game' screen to web browser screen, from one style of layour to another, from one type of drop downs/buttons to another.

Agreed, I don't play FM, but do play EHM and it has navigation panel is excellent. I also have a mouse with back and forward buttons, when playing EHM I can click these to easily move through screens using only the mouse. I like this much better than having to move the mouse and click a back button on screen, or use the backspace button (I also don't know of any key that will move you forward).
I think those two things make navigation much easier and quicker in EHM and FM.

[sfgiants88]

Too often with OOTP, going from one screen to another goes from 'game' screen to web browser screen, from one style of layour to another, from one type of drop downs/buttons to another.

I think this is spot-on. I don't particularly like the interface either, but have never been able to pin down exactly why.

Now I know: There needs to be consistency in the layout from screen to screen.

[jazzrack]

Originally Posted by redmarkYankees

Too often with OOTP, going from one screen to another goes from 'game' screen to web browser screen, from one style of layour to another, from one type of drop downs/buttons to another.

OMG, i have been looking for this wording for weeks.

drives me filppin batty. pick one already.

[delta]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

So, tell me what needs to happen?

How can we speed screen access up for you?
Why are menus counter intuitive?
What is the key for us to make the lineups screen better?

I'm fine with you saying the interface is crap - but I need answers from you on how we can fix it?

I posted a thread like this without any replies, but with actual suggestions. Perhaps I should have used a more inflammatory headline.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=144640

The good news is that the patch definitely fixed the first problem I listed, not sure about the rest (haven't tried it out yet)

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by redmarkYankees

While many OOTP players who dislike the interface say it's the 'FM style', as a long-time FM player, I think OOTP hasn't taken the best parts from FM.

The left (or right) contextual navigation panel (in FM) is excellent, well worth the loss of a little width.

I play both FM and EHM and I wouldn't want to give up the screen width that ootp provides due to all the columns of stats available in baseball. I fail to see the difference between a menu on the left\right or one across the top of the screen? All ootp's I have owned had the top menu, this one just has more options that have to go somewhere. Can't say it's bothered me in the least.

[Oxydizer]

Like you said, this is your first day impression, the interface does take some time to get used to. once you master all the buttons and where they take you, you will feel better about the UI, just give it a chance.

[redmarkYankees]

Originally Posted by Sweed

I fail to see the difference between a menu on the left\right or one across the top of the screen?

Several small differences.

It makes 'drill-down' navigation more 'clumsy'. When I click on a team and go to their home page (which is a web-style screen, btw), I have 11 tabs then to select different aspects of team management. Within those 11 tabs, there are 24 sub screens (as well as possible other links to players or news, reports and history). Some of those subscreens are SION, some are 'game'. Some subscreens (Lineup vs RHP, etc) are things I would intuitively expect to be handled by a drop down or in-screen button; sub of the higher level tabs should be merged with a second-level tab introduced (for instance, personnel doesn't need a 'top-level' tab of it's own).

Basically, it would be much more intuitive/logical (IMO) if all of this was shown in an expandable hierarchial tree navigation structure on the left, as in FM. The FM style navigation makes it easier to understand - and therefore remember, without even thinking - where information or a particular screen 'fits' into the overall structure. It also makes more of the navigation visible at any time, without searching, if you can't remember - it's easier to glance down a list than have to click each top-level tab and check what secondary tabs are available under each. The tree structure is widely used precisely because it is intuitive and aids the user in visualising where something fits.

[The Wolf]

Setting pinch hitters does need to be in one of the patches.

[rasnell]

As you get beyond the learning curve and begin to develop your own style of play, here are some key items that I think immensely improved the interface from OOTP 2006 to 2007:

Manager home page. You can find all of the most frequently accessed pages here.

The icons at the bottom of the screen that allow you to jump to all the key places as manager, league and team.

Setting bookmarks and seeing that the game automatically assigns a shortcut key to those view really allows you to jump to exactly the places you want to be.

I love to progress through the team schedule page because I can quickly sim a day, a week, etc. and immediately look at the box scores.

However, despite my love of all the improvements, I continue to be just as unhappy with the interface, especially within the solo play game screen. It's a royal pain to make PH or bullpen changes and re-setting the stat views to your liking time and time again.

It won't lock to a preferred view, forcing you always to see the broadcast view rather than webcast if that's your most frequent way of playing.

We really, really need some shortcut keys where entering "P" in the game immediately takes you to the pitcher view and with stats the way that you want them.

With all the great stats kept by the game and all the great views, why don't we have any options to filter the stats and views within game play itself. I don't want to see playoff numbers. I want to see season stats and have the option to toggle this.

OOTP 2007 has done a tremendous job of fixing the game engine, player development, historical stats and the guts of the game that really matter.

I'm hoping that OOTP 2008 will be devoted to simplicity, ease of use, user friendliness, more shortcuts, more control to customize the in-game screen. I want to be able to drag and drop boxes and re-size them to my liking so that the ballpark can fill the entire monitor if I wish and I can open lineup boxes for both teams and display stats the way that I choose.

In my opinion, the single greatest mess, most confusing, most complicated part of the game is everything having to do with front office finances. There are so many variables where historic era files, team editing and the game itself are in conflict and override each other.

We also need much greater ability to set our own modifiers for many other gameplay issues currently found in the config file rather than league modifiers.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by redmarkYankees

Several small differences.

It makes 'drill-down' navigation more 'clumsy'. When I click on a team and go to their home page (which is a web-style screen, btw), I have 11 tabs then to select different aspects of team management. Within those 11 tabs, there are 24 sub screens (as well as possible other links to players or news, reports and history). Some of those subscreens are SION, some are 'game'. Some subscreens (Lineup vs RHP, etc) are things I would intuitively expect to be handled by a drop down or in-screen button; sub of the higher level tabs should be merged with a second-level tab introduced (for instance, personnel doesn't need a 'top-level' tab of it's own).

Basically, it would be much more intuitive/logical (IMO) if all of this was shown in an expandable hierarchial tree navigation structure on the left, as in FM. The FM style navigation makes it easier to understand - and therefore remember, without even thinking - where information or a particular screen 'fits' into the overall structure. It also makes more of the navigation visible at any time, without searching, if you can't remember - it's easier to glance down a list than have to click each top-level tab and check what secondary tabs are available under each. The tree structure is widely used precisely because it is intuitive and aids the user in visualising where something fits.

Well, I guess we see things differently. The side menu works great for FM. I would go so far as to say EHM could have benefited using the top menus of OOTP. Too look at simple boxscore stats in EHM requires scrolling the screen left to right. Perhaps with the OOTP style it could all appear on one screen?
Much better IMHO.


In OOTP 2007 I find the menus to be very organized and intuitive (team functions are under team, league functions under MLB or whatever your league is named etc). Once the game is setup there are basically three menu choices at the top, manager, league, and team. All of the choices underneath seem pretty straight forward to me. I guess if users wanted a tree Markus could add an expandable menu like under "MLB>Reports" that opens another menu to the right for all options under each menu. Certainly preferable IMHO (we'll have to agree to disagree) to cutting down the width of the stat screens I want to use.

For example I have a "bullpen" view built to look at my pitchers stats. I could care less about their W-L record so exclude those things but include enough columns that narrowing the screen would mean it would not fit into one view. I'd then be forced to switch between views to see everything I want to look at.

[Kyros]

Originally Posted by KurtBevacqua

Played the demo last night, bought the game this morning, have been playing it all day. There are some dramatic improvements to historic play I really love. But the bottom line is the interface is still crap. I still have a hard time clicking and dragging guys to the right place in the lineups page. I still sometime have to click two or three times to get a screen up. The menus are still counter-intuitive. I'm not having anymore fun playing this version than last years. And my critique remains the same as last year. All the bells and whistles are fabulous. This game has even more of all the features I ever dared dream of in a baseball sim, and the interface is still so bad that I don't enjoy playing it.

I intend to dive all in to league play with this game, so in the end it will be worth the purchase. But for solo play it's just not anymore fun to play than last year's game.

I disagree completely. This years version is way above and beyond the fun factor than last years version.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Kyros

I disagree completely. This years version is way above and beyond the fun factor than last years version.

"