U of M -- ND

DougWyatt · 09-15-2007, 06:10 PM

So, 31-0 Michigan at the half.

Is Michigan really not the team that played the first 2 games, and they are showing it today .... or does ND really suck this bad ?

Starshadow · 09-15-2007, 06:49 PM

A bit of both, I think. Okay, a lot of ND being terrible, to be honest.

a87star · 09-15-2007, 07:09 PM

The whole situation with ND has been bad the last five or so seasons. There teams have underachieved although they have made bowl games the last few years. What they did to Willingham was a low blow and turned me off to their program in regards to athletics.

Big Hugg · 09-15-2007, 07:58 PM

Michigan State
at Purdue
at UCLA
Boston College
USC

Anyone see a Notre Dame win in there?

The Irish have -14 yards rushing this season.

Skipaway · 09-15-2007, 07:59 PM

Hey, but you can still find people blaming Willingham for the current status of Notre Dame!

mh2365 · 09-15-2007, 08:04 PM

As a huge Irish fan .. I'd like to defend them but I just can't. As far as Willingham goes .. you see what happens to a program that takes 2 years off of recruiting.

Skipaway · 09-15-2007, 08:38 PM

A lot of criticism about Willingham's recruiting is that he has high academic standards, which is now lowered at Notre Dame because Weis negotiated for it.

a87star · 09-15-2007, 10:11 PM

ND has student-athletes that possibly could flunk classes but still get to play on Saturday thanks to "lower grade standards". Pretty soon all a student will need is to show up to class with a pencil just to participate in collegiate athletics.

Weiss should be kissing Willingham's feet for his two successful seasons prior to this debacle. All Willingham was doing is trying to keep integrity for a school that has/had a really storied history. Guess that doesn't matter to the board of trustees anymore.

DougWyatt · 09-15-2007, 10:34 PM

ND's storied history is that they are successful on the football field.

I really don't think it's relevant to the schools academic reputation that a few student athletes don't perform great in the classroom.

Prodigal Son · 09-15-2007, 10:41 PM

Yeah, let's not kid ourselves. ND never has held football players to the admissions standards of the rest of the student body, not even BACK IN THE DAY.

About, what, 5% of high school football players would qualify to get in to ND with their GPA's and SAT/ACT scores?

marc · 09-15-2007, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

About, what, 5% of high school football players would qualify to get in to ND with their GPA's and SAT/ACT scores?

At best.

mh2365 · 09-15-2007, 11:19 PM

Yeah that is ND hater propaganda ... nice try

marc · 09-15-2007, 11:25 PM

It's really the truth, but there's nothing wrong with it. Notre Dame recruits the exact same kids that everyone else does, it's a fact. I don't understand why ND fans get angry when people make that statement it's not intended to be inflammatory.

When Notre Dame starts battling Harvard, Penn, and Yale for recruits, then I'll believe their standards are so much higher than everyone elses.

Until then, I'm gonna watch them battle USC, Tennessee, Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, and Florida for the exact same players.

mh2365 · 09-15-2007, 11:36 PM

Standards are lower for football players than regular students ... absolutely

Weis negotiated lower standards .. utter BS

Weis has any less standards that Willingham ... utter BS

Skipaway · 09-16-2007, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mh2365

Standards are lower for football players than regular students ... absolutely

Weis negotiated lower standards .. utter BS

Weis has any less standards that Willingham ... utter BS

Notre Dame beat writer Tim Prister's criticism of Willingham in his book "The New Gold Standard -- Charlie Weis and Notre Dame's Rise to Glory'' :

Quote:

"He was bringing in good kids, capable student-athletes who could make it in the classroom, but he wasn't bringing in kids who could make a difference on the field.''

DougWyatt · 09-16-2007, 01:28 AM

What does what some beat writer write have anything to do with reality ?

Skipaway · 09-16-2007, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougWyatt

What does what some beat writer write have anything to do with reality ?

It was a comment of someone who was trying to write a book praising Weis. As I said, it was a criticism of Willingham, it got nothing to do with if it's true or not. My point was there were a lot of comments like that.

mh2365 · 09-16-2007, 10:07 AM

It doesn't mean they lowered the standards for Weis .. it just shows that Willingham was recruiting students not athletes and it is showing this year as the majority of the players who are getting playing time are freshman and sophomores.

Skipaway · 09-16-2007, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mh2365

It doesn't mean they lowered the standards for Weis .. it just shows that Willingham was recruiting students not athletes and it is showing this year as the majority of the players who are getting playing time are freshman and sophomores.

"Showing"? It didn't really show anything about the recruits, since it's not Willingham's system now, and we wouldn't know if the players Willingham recruited would have worked well in his system.

What it really reveals is Weis isn't really that good. It's kind of hard to have such a horrible offense regardless of the talent level.

Darius Walker was recruited in 2004, why did he leave early?

a87star · 09-16-2007, 02:08 PM

All I know is that all the players that left that were on ND the prior two years were not recruited by Weiss and somehow he gets credit and his behind kissed for that.

Brady Quinn was recruited by Tyrone Willingham and was a good student and performed on the field so Mr. Prister is nothing but a Weiss nuthugger.

09-15-2007, 06:10 PM	#1
DougWyatt All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,117	U of M -- ND So, 31-0 Michigan at the half. Is Michigan really not the team that played the first 2 games, and they are showing it today .... or does ND really suck this bad ?

09-15-2007, 07:58 PM	#4
Big Hugg All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2004 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 933	Michigan State at Purdue at UCLA Boston College USC Anyone see a Notre Dame win in there? The Irish have -14 yards rushing this season. Last edited by Big Hugg; 09-15-2007 at 07:59 PM.

09-15-2007, 07:59 PM	#5
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	Hey, but you can still find people blaming Willingham for the current status of Notre Dame! __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

09-15-2007, 08:38 PM	#7
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	A lot of criticism about Willingham's recruiting is that he has high academic standards, which is now lowered at Notre Dame because Weis negotiated for it. __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

09-15-2007, 11:25 PM	#13
marc Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 7,505	It's really the truth, but there's nothing wrong with it. Notre Dame recruits the exact same kids that everyone else does, it's a fact. I don't understand why ND fans get angry when people make that statement it's not intended to be inflammatory. When Notre Dame starts battling Harvard, Penn, and Yale for recruits, then I'll believe their standards are so much higher than everyone elses. Until then, I'm gonna watch them battle USC, Tennessee, Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, and Florida for the exact same players. __________________

09-15-2007, 06:49 PM	#2
Starshadow Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 316	A bit of both, I think. Okay, a lot of ND being terrible, to be honest.

09-15-2007, 07:09 PM	#3
a87star Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Staten Island, NY Posts: 4,850	The whole situation with ND has been bad the last five or so seasons. There teams have underachieved although they have made bowl games the last few years. What they did to Willingham was a low blow and turned me off to their program in regards to athletics.

09-15-2007, 08:04 PM	#6
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	As a huge Irish fan .. I'd like to defend them but I just can't. As far as Willingham goes .. you see what happens to a program that takes 2 years off of recruiting.

09-15-2007, 10:11 PM	#8
a87star Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Staten Island, NY Posts: 4,850	ND has student-athletes that possibly could flunk classes but still get to play on Saturday thanks to "lower grade standards". Pretty soon all a student will need is to show up to class with a pencil just to participate in collegiate athletics. Weiss should be kissing Willingham's feet for his two successful seasons prior to this debacle. All Willingham was doing is trying to keep integrity for a school that has/had a really storied history. Guess that doesn't matter to the board of trustees anymore.

09-15-2007, 10:34 PM	#9
DougWyatt All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,117	ND's storied history is that they are successful on the football field. I really don't think it's relevant to the schools academic reputation that a few student athletes don't perform great in the classroom.

09-15-2007, 10:41 PM	#10
Prodigal Son All Star Starter Join Date: May 2006 Location: Iahiodo a.k.a. the flyover Posts: 1,635	Yeah, let's not kid ourselves. ND never has held football players to the admissions standards of the rest of the student body, not even BACK IN THE DAY. About, what, 5% of high school football players would qualify to get in to ND with their GPA's and SAT/ACT scores?

09-15-2007, 11:19 PM	#12
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	Yeah that is ND hater propaganda ... nice try

09-15-2007, 11:36 PM	#14
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	Standards are lower for football players than regular students ... absolutely Weis negotiated lower standards .. utter BS Weis has any less standards that Willingham ... utter BS

09-16-2007, 01:28 AM	#16
DougWyatt All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,117	What does what some beat writer write have anything to do with reality ?

09-16-2007, 10:07 AM	#18
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	It doesn't mean they lowered the standards for Weis .. it just shows that Willingham was recruiting students not athletes and it is showing this year as the majority of the players who are getting playing time are freshman and sophomores.

09-16-2007, 02:08 PM	#20
a87star Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Staten Island, NY Posts: 4,850	All I know is that all the players that left that were on ND the prior two years were not recruited by Weiss and somehow he gets credit and his behind kissed for that. Brady Quinn was recruited by Tyrone Willingham and was a good student and performed on the field so Mr. Prister is nothing but a Weiss nuthugger.