opinion on the future of OOTP

[PSUColonel]

Given the constant battles and differences of opinion about the future direction OOTP should take, coupled with the fact that Markus seems "locked in" to coding the game in a similar way that he always has (waiver problems, AI roster management problems etc) does anyone here feel OOTP will reach the level of greatness that SI's other two management sims have? FM and EHM are widely considered the best two sports management games on the market, and it wouldn't surprise me if FM won best game of the year with many publications, and possibly best game ever. Also, throw in the fact that I am beginning to see a different audience for those games than this one. It seems to me the average OOTP player has no patience, and always wants instant gratification, even if it means an inferior product that might be "dumbed down" when compared to it's counterparts. What are people's thoughts on this?

[Caporegime]

Well, I’m not really sure what data you’re basing your opinion on regarding the intrinsic need for the “average OOTP” player to achieve instant gratification. However, speaking for myself, if I wanted instant gratification I would have purchased one of the many arcade-style baseball games on the market to get my virtual baseball kicks, and not an intricate and time-consuming text sim like OOTP.

As far as Markus being “locked in” to coding the game in a certain way, you may have noticed that OOTP 2006 utilizes an entirely different game engine from its predecessors. If he was intransigently clinging to some set coding methodology or other, I hardly think that would be the case, don’t you?

[Caporegime]

dola,

As long as Markus remains at the helm and dedicates himself to the continued development of the OOTP franchise, the future of OOTP will remain bright.

[PSUColonel]

I do realize the game was completely re-written. That is why I was so surprsed to continue seeing some of the same old AI flaws.

[akw4572]

Originally Posted by Caporegime

As far as Markus being “locked in” to coding the game in a certain way, you may have noticed that OOTP 2006 utilizes an entirely different game engine from its predecessors. If he was intransigently clinging to some set coding methodology or other, I hardly think that would be the case, don’t you?

I think it's a fair question giving the problems that have been seen since the introduction of the waiver system. Roster signings, releases, free agent signings, trades, releases, etc. have been a constant problem. Do I hope it improves??? Absolutely.

[akw4572]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I do realize the game was completely re-written. That is why I was so surprsed to continue seeing some of the same old AI flaws.

""

[Caporegime]

double post...

[Caporegime]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I do realize the game was completely re-written. That is why I was so surprsed to continue seeing some of the same old AI flaws.

Well, to be fair, I don’t think the franchise will achieve a level of God-like perfection or meet everyone’s expectations. I was initially very disappointed in OOTP 2006 until I accepted it for what it was: A Great baseball simulation program with enormous potential that is by no means perfect. Even the illustrious FM, which you yourself hold up as the paradigm of sports text sims, isn’t perfect.

I’m confident that improvements to the game’s AI will be made and that the franchise will continue to grow. I’m also confident that such improvements will expose other flaws in the game in the eyes of some, and that this game, like all games, will never meet everyone’s expectations entirely, including mine.

[sfgiants88]

Given the constant battles and differences of opinion about the future direction OOTP should take, coupled with the fact that Markus seems "locked in" to coding the game in a similar way that he always has (waiver problems, AI roster management problems etc) does anyone here feel OOTP will reach the level of greatness that SI's other two management sims have? FM and EHM are widely considered the best two sports management games on the market, and it wouldn't surprise me if FM won best game of the year with many publications, and possibly best game ever. Also, throw in the fact that I am beginning to see a different audience for those games than this one. It seems to me the average OOTP player has no patience, and always wants instant gratification, even if it means an inferior product that might be "dumbed down" when compared to it's counterparts. What are people's thoughts on this?

You seem to be missing a key fact. OOTP is not FM. It has a different fan base. There is ofcourse significant overlap in the two, but if you want a "Pure FM" experience you will be dissapointed in OOTP because it is a different type of game.

Give me an example of the game being "dumbed down." Or an example of "instant gratification." Just curious?

[endgame]

Originally Posted by Originally Posted by PSUColonel

This I agree with. My thing is this: I agree with the direction the game is going in, but I do think it is time to fix many of these long standing AI issues before adding more options of features. I would be very happy if the new game was only enhanced "under the hood" in the form of a working AI for roster management and financials.

Originally Posted by endgame

If you add all transactions compliant and consistent (as is feasible) with a working MLB model of those transaction types and I agree completely.

Granted, a total rewrite negates the idea of the "legacy bug", however if the issues remain consistently in the same arenas over the development of a series -- as much respect as I have for Markus -- then they become easily construed as legacy design decisions or designer limitations.

I stand by the statement I made in response to PSU from the Trade Proposal thread above. While I have no doubt that the game will evolve into a premier baseball simulation, the pinnacle of that success will be ultimately measured by, IMHO, the influence of at least these elements:

1) Markus' determination to bring the game core into adherence with an MLB working model by default according to its rules and transactions that easily translates to a reliable, fictional base relying on a real-world framework, familiarity, and expectation level right out of the box.

2) Markus' determination to once and for all, with the assistance of a very talented group of beta associates -- including some who, in my estimation, excel in tangible, systemic evaluations -- eliminate those recurrent issues consistently targeted with discontent for the reason I cited above, if for no other.

3) SI's and Markus' cooperative efforts to continue the growth of the game's complexity and sophistication - including its optional difficulty levels from the user's perspective - with a willingness to concede the ambition must inherently decide a preference for its broadest, future audience base OR insisting it cling to all clientle, ensure that every single implemenation works effectively across that schemata; not simply placate individual factions in order to preserve unilateral loyalty to the detriment of overall function and quality.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by sfgiants88

You seem to be missing a key fact. OOTP is not FM. It has a different fan base. There is ofcourse significant overlap in the two, but if you want a "Pure FM" experience you will be dissapointed in OOTP because it is a different type of game.

Give me an example of the game being "dumbed down." Or an example of "instant gratification." Just curious?

It is simpy a feeling I get from reading the boards, that OOTP people for some reason don't want to delve into the kind of detail that FM provides, and then they always want options.(to erase planned features, which further messes up what the game should be) Not every feature of FM is an option the way some people seem to want for OOTP, and my point is, that if you go anywhere in the civilized world, FM is considered the best tex GM sim of all time.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by endgame

I stand by the statement I made in response to PSU from the Trade Proposal thread above. While I have no doubt that the game will evolve into a premier baseball simulation, the pinnacle of that success will be ultimately measured by, IMHO, the influence of at least these elements:

1) Markus' determination to bring the game core into adherence with an MLB working model by default according to its rules and transactions that easily translates to a reliable, fictional base relying on a real-world framework, familiarity, and expectation level right out of the box.

2) Markus' determination to once and for all, with the assistance of a very talented group of beta associates -- including some who, in my estimation, excel in tangible, systemic evaluations -- eliminate those recurrent issues consistently targeted with discontent for the reason I cited above, if for no other.

3) SI's and Markus' cooperative efforts to continue the growth of the game's complexity and sophistication - including its optional difficulty levels from the user's perspective - with a willingness to concede the ambition must inherently decide a preference for its broadest, future audience base OR insisting it cling to all clientle, ensure that every single implemenation works effectively across that schemata; not simply placate individual factions in order to preserve unilateral loyalty to the detriment of overall function and quality.

agreed

[Caporegime]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

It is simpy a feeling I get from reading the boards, that OOTP people for some reason don't want to delve into the kind of detail that FM provides, and then they always want options.(to erase planned features, which further messes up what the game should be) Not every feature of FM is an option the way some people seem to want for OOTP, and my point is, that if you go anywhere in the civilized world, FM is considered the best tex GM sim of all time.

Really? If anything, one could argue that the opposite is true. I have yet to read a single thread in which members were demanding less detail & realism in the game, including this one. Have I missed something?

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Caporegime

Really? If anything, one could argue that the opposite is true. I have yet to read a single thread in which members were demanding less detail & realism in the game, including this one. Have I missed something?

yea, there have been plenty demanding less..particularly those who are into stat starring(simming long periods of time, ony to examine stats...rather than being a GM, which is really the point of the game)

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by Caporegime

Really? If anything, one could argue that the opposite is true. I have yet to read a single thread in which members were demanding less detail & realism in the game, including this one. Have I missed something?

Yes, you have.

Ghost players for one, full minors is another.

[molarmite]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I do realize the game was completely re-written. That is why I was so surprsed to continue seeing some of the same old AI flaws.

It was the first game after the rewrite, of course he's not gonna get it perfect the first time, but you should expect improvements in those areas now that he's got more time to fix that kind of stuff.

[Caporegime]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

Yes, you have.

Ghost players for one, full minors is another.

Okay, I must've missed that.

Just out of curiosity, is there a clear majority advocating the return of ghost players and a truncated minors system, or is this simply the opinion of an odd fringe - you know, the same group who advocates the inclusion of female players and Hobbit name files in the game?

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Caporegime

Okay, I must've missed that.

Just out of curiosity, is there a clear majority advocating the return of ghost players and a truncated minors system, or is this simply the opinion of an odd fringe - you know, the same group who advocates the inclusion of female players and Hobbit name files in the game?

Not fringe, but certaintly not the majority.


Come to think of it, why in the hell would anyone want hobbit names?
BTW what the hell is a hobbit?

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

It seems to me the average OOTP player has no patience, and always wants instant gratification, even if it means an inferior product that might be "dumbed down" when compared to it's counterparts. What are people's thoughts on this?

My opinion is the same as always when you start insulting people who want to enjoy a game instead of having a second job with your silly 'dumbed down' comments. Save it, we've heard you the first 100 times.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

My opinion is the same as always when you start insulting people who want to enjoy a game instead of having a second job with your silly 'dumbed down' comments. Save it, we've heard you the first 100 times.

I rest my case.