split-season playoffs still not working right?

Zeyes · 08-07-2006, 12:17 AM

First time I've had a chance to look at this since the various Patch #2's were released (including one that supposedly fixed the split-season playoffs), and here's how the league went down:

First half:

CHO 17-13
LBA 16-14
REN 16-14
SDS 15-15
YUM 14-16
FUL 12-18

Second half:

REN 18-12
CHO 17-13
YUM 16-14
FUL 14-16
SDS 14-16
LBA 11-19
´
The first-half berth went to...5th place Yuma. The second-half berth...was decided in a one-game playoff between Reno and Chico, apparently because they co-led the combined season standings with 34-26.

Needless to say, both of those are wrong. Chico should have won the first-half outright, and Reno the second half.

Can't say I'm terribly happy right now.

Zeyes · 08-14-2006, 06:59 PM

Hmm, no wonder that some of this stuff doesn't make any sense...I just happened to witness this:

At the half-way mark, the standings looked like this:

CAL 27-21
EDM 25-23
WIN 23-25
FMR 19-29

Calgary was duly declared the half-season winner on the screen. However, after simming ahead to the end of the season, suddenly Winnipeg is listed. The hell?

It appears that the change happened right after the final game (another league just did the same thing)...that's very nice, assuming that the "new" half-season winner listing is supposed to show the second-half winner, but the problem is: Calgary had slipped to 3rd place after the second half, so now Winnipeg is apparently considered the winner of both half-seasons and the second play-off berth went to 2nd-place Edmonton. Calgary's been cheated out of the playoffs.

That other league that did the same thing...yup, a team was cheated out of the playoffs there, as well. Worcester won the first half, but fell to third place overall at the end, and they're not in the playoffs now. The first-place and second-place teams are.

And it's not even consistently going wrong...in another league (6 teams in a single division), the first-half winner had fallen to last place overall after a disastrous second half, but they managed to keep their playoff spot.

Something is very, very FUBAR here.

Zeyes · 08-14-2006, 07:08 PM

Perhaps I should list the full results for all three divisions in question, for clarity. Here we go:

Northern League West, first half (as mentioned):
CAL 27-21
EDM 25-23
WIN 23-25
FMR 19-29

full season:
WIN 51-45
EDM 48-48
CAL 45-51
FMR 43-53

WIN and EDM went to the playoffs.

---

Can-Am League South, first half:
WOR 26-20
NHC 23-23
SUS 23-23
NJJ 19-27

full season:
SUS 54-38
NHC 50-42
WOR 46-46
NJJ 36-56

SUS and NHC went to the playoffs.

---

Golden League, first half:
FUL 23-17
LBA 23-17
SDS 22-18
YUM 19-21
REN 17-23
CHO 16-24

second half:
CHO 41-39
LBA 41-39
SDS 41-39
REN 40-40
YUM 39-41
FUL 38-42

FUL received (and kept) the first-half berth...we'll ignore the question of exactly which tie-breaker they won over LBA, since OOTP seems to choose first-half winners pretty randomly when there's a tie. Anyway, CHO won the second spot after a tie-breaking playoff against LBA and SDS. Maybe it was the need for that tie-breaker that prevented FUL from losing their spot like the other teams did, I dunno.

Zeyes · 08-14-2006, 07:27 PM

Looks like I'll be able to keep this thread going for a while longer, since OOTP is managing to screw up pretty much every single league.

Here's the next one:

Atlantic League South, first half:

CAM 33-30
SOM 30-33
ACS 26-37
LAN 21-42

CAM declared the first-half winner.

full season:
CAM 61-65 (the other division has a .700 team, oops)
ACS 56-70
LAN 56-70
SOM 52-74

Guess who's now listed as the half-season winner...SOM (!) - and in fact, this time the bogus change happened within the season. It was still correct on Sep 4th, but already wrong on Sep 24th before the final day's games. The playoff spots went to CAM and SOM. Well, I guess CAM at least didn't get cheated out of the playoffs, but the SOM pick is totally unfathomable to me.

So, that's one simmed season with 5 leagues, and 3 of them managed to have nonsensical playoff picks. I shudder to think what I'd find if I simmed for any more data.

Edit: And yet another one, still from the same season. This is the Atlantic League's rookie affiliate that I have in my universe.

first half:
ACS-R 28-21
LAN-R 28-21
SOM-R 27-22
BRI-R 24-25
CAM-R 23-26
LID-R 23-26
PEN-R 22-27
NEW-R 21-28

LAN-R was declared the first-half champion. By the end of the season, that designation has mysteriously moved over to BRI-R who aren't even the overall winners either, just like the main Atlantic League's case with SOM:

ACS-R 57-41
LAN-R 56-42
BRI-R 51-47
NEW-R 47-51
PEN-R 46-52
SOM-R 46-52
LID-R 45-53
CAM-R 44-54

Zeyes · 08-23-2006, 03:51 PM

Bumped by popular request. And to perhaps catch Markus' attention directly, if you're looking in here again.

Le Grande Orange · 08-23-2006, 06:15 PM

The topic has just come up in the Beta forums. It would seem Markus misunderstands a bit how the split-season format should work.

However, I'm not sure if it'll be fixable in this version due to the way the game works with it internally. I've pointed out where I think the problem lies, now it's a matter of seeing if Markus can cure the problem...

Zeyes · 08-23-2006, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

The topic has just come up in the Beta forums. It would seem Markus misunderstands a bit how the split-season format should work.

Well, if this is about the game seemingly using the overall standings to declare some "half-season" winners, that's wrong of course, but as you're saying, it's just a misunderstanding. And I could even live with that, if that's the only way to decide the second half. (e.g. if the game is unable to store the half-point records anywhere and thus can't calculate proper second-half records, etc.)

I'm more troubled that the game currently declares teams as first-half champions (including the "Clinched" tag on the standings page) and then revokes their status later in the season, even bumping them from the playoffs in some cases. That's rather FUBAR, and I'm pretty sure that bug wasn't present yet before the 1.02 attempt at fixing the split-season playoffs...

Carplos · 08-26-2006, 04:38 PM

Any update on whether this is fixable in this version?

battists · 10-20-2006, 09:12 PM

This issue (at this point rather obviously) won't be fixed in 2006. Markus will be looking at this further for 2007. Apologies. Now, if everyone could please start doing split-season in exactly the same way, we would appreciate it...

Thanks,

Steve

08-07-2006, 12:17 AM	#1
Zeyes All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 818	split-season playoffs still not working right? First time I've had a chance to look at this since the various Patch #2's were released (including one that supposedly fixed the split-season playoffs), and here's how the league went down: First half: CHO 17-13 LBA 16-14 REN 16-14 SDS 15-15 YUM 14-16 FUL 12-18 Second half: REN 18-12 CHO 17-13 YUM 16-14 FUL 14-16 SDS 14-16 LBA 11-19 ´ The first-half berth went to...5th place Yuma. The second-half berth...was decided in a one-game playoff between Reno and Chico, apparently because they co-led the combined season standings with 34-26. Needless to say, both of those are wrong. Chico should have won the first-half outright, and Reno the second half. Can't say I'm terribly happy right now.

08-14-2006, 07:27 PM	#4
Zeyes All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 818	Looks like I'll be able to keep this thread going for a while longer, since OOTP is managing to screw up pretty much every single league. Here's the next one: Atlantic League South, first half: CAM 33-30 SOM 30-33 ACS 26-37 LAN 21-42 CAM declared the first-half winner. full season: CAM 61-65 (the other division has a .700 team, oops) ACS 56-70 LAN 56-70 SOM 52-74 Guess who's now listed as the half-season winner...SOM (!) - and in fact, this time the bogus change happened within the season. It was still correct on Sep 4th, but already wrong on Sep 24th before the final day's games. The playoff spots went to CAM and SOM. Well, I guess CAM at least didn't get cheated out of the playoffs, but the SOM pick is totally unfathomable to me. So, that's one simmed season with 5 leagues, and 3 of them managed to have nonsensical playoff picks. I shudder to think what I'd find if I simmed for any more data. Edit: And yet another one, still from the same season. This is the Atlantic League's rookie affiliate that I have in my universe. first half: ACS-R 28-21 LAN-R 28-21 SOM-R 27-22 BRI-R 24-25 CAM-R 23-26 LID-R 23-26 PEN-R 22-27 NEW-R 21-28 LAN-R was declared the first-half champion. By the end of the season, that designation has mysteriously moved over to BRI-R who aren't even the overall winners either, just like the main Atlantic League's case with SOM: ACS-R 57-41 LAN-R 56-42 BRI-R 51-47 NEW-R 47-51 PEN-R 46-52 SOM-R 46-52 LID-R 45-53 CAM-R 44-54 Last edited by Zeyes; 08-14-2006 at 07:41 PM.

08-14-2006, 06:59 PM	#2
Zeyes All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 818	Hmm, no wonder that some of this stuff doesn't make any sense...I just happened to witness this: At the half-way mark, the standings looked like this: CAL 27-21 EDM 25-23 WIN 23-25 FMR 19-29 Calgary was duly declared the half-season winner on the screen. However, after simming ahead to the end of the season, suddenly Winnipeg is listed. The hell? It appears that the change happened right after the final game (another league just did the same thing)...that's very nice, assuming that the "new" half-season winner listing is supposed to show the second-half winner, but the problem is: Calgary had slipped to 3rd place after the second half, so now Winnipeg is apparently considered the winner of both half-seasons and the second play-off berth went to 2nd-place Edmonton. Calgary's been cheated out of the playoffs. That other league that did the same thing...yup, a team was cheated out of the playoffs there, as well. Worcester won the first half, but fell to third place overall at the end, and they're not in the playoffs now. The first-place and second-place teams are. And it's not even consistently going wrong...in another league (6 teams in a single division), the first-half winner had fallen to last place overall after a disastrous second half, but they managed to keep their playoff spot. Something is very, very FUBAR here.

08-14-2006, 07:08 PM	#3
Zeyes All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 818	Perhaps I should list the full results for all three divisions in question, for clarity. Here we go: Northern League West, first half (as mentioned): CAL 27-21 EDM 25-23 WIN 23-25 FMR 19-29 full season: WIN 51-45 EDM 48-48 CAL 45-51 FMR 43-53 WIN and EDM went to the playoffs. --- Can-Am League South, first half: WOR 26-20 NHC 23-23 SUS 23-23 NJJ 19-27 full season: SUS 54-38 NHC 50-42 WOR 46-46 NJJ 36-56 SUS and NHC went to the playoffs. --- Golden League, first half: FUL 23-17 LBA 23-17 SDS 22-18 YUM 19-21 REN 17-23 CHO 16-24 second half: CHO 41-39 LBA 41-39 SDS 41-39 REN 40-40 YUM 39-41 FUL 38-42 FUL received (and kept) the first-half berth...we'll ignore the question of exactly which tie-breaker they won over LBA, since OOTP seems to choose first-half winners pretty randomly when there's a tie. Anyway, CHO won the second spot after a tie-breaking playoff against LBA and SDS. Maybe it was the need for that tie-breaker that prevented FUL from losing their spot like the other teams did, I dunno.

08-23-2006, 03:51 PM	#5
Zeyes All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 818	Bumped by popular request. And to perhaps catch Markus' attention directly, if you're looking in here again.

08-23-2006, 06:15 PM	#6
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,642	The topic has just come up in the Beta forums. It would seem Markus misunderstands a bit how the split-season format should work. However, I'm not sure if it'll be fixable in this version due to the way the game works with it internally. I've pointed out where I think the problem lies, now it's a matter of seeing if Markus can cure the problem...

08-26-2006, 04:38 PM	#8
Carplos Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,890 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	Any update on whether this is fixable in this version?

10-20-2006, 09:12 PM	#9
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	This issue (at this point rather obviously) won't be fixed in 2006. Markus will be looking at this further for 2007. Apologies. Now, if everyone could please start doing split-season in exactly the same way, we would appreciate it... Thanks, Steve