Giant Roster of Negro League Players

[Arlie Latham]

Arod and Garland have added the top Negro League players to their alternate database. I have taken that idea and run with it. I am working on listing any significant Negro League players from the Negro League Encyclopedia reference I have. I will be listing the debut year, B/T, Position, Birth date and location (if possible) as well as their major league equivalent. I will not be putting this into the database, but the whole list will be available according the year the player debuted. If there is a Arod/Garland import already available, that will be listed. Here is a small sample:





1911 to 1925 Allen, Todd 3B, Import as Dave Hollins (1990), B/T: Right
1914 to 1926 Allen, Touissant L'Ouvertre (Tom), Import as Ed Konetchy (1907), Born 1896 Atlanta, GA B/T: R/L
1921 to 1925 Albritton, Alex P: Import as Luis Leal (1980), Born 1894, Philadelphia PA
1923 to 1944 Allen, Newton (Newt) Arod/Garlon Database: allenne09, 1923, Frankie Frisch
1924 to 1930 Alfonso, Angel, SS, 2B, 3B, Import as Chuck Knoblauch (1991), Born in Cuba B/T: Left/Right
1927 to 1932 Alexander, Chuffy OF, IF, Import as Eric Owens (1995), Ht. 5'0, Wt. 125, B/T: Right
1932 to 1938 Allen, Clifford (Crooks) P, Import as Johnny Marcum (1933),
1932 to 1946 Adams, Emery (Ace) P,OF: Import as Paul Splittorf,(1970) 5'8-160 , Born 1911 Collierville, TN, B/T: R
1940 to 1949 Alexander, Ted (Red) P, Import as Carl Morton (1969), Ht. 5'10, Wt. 185, B/T: Right
1942 to 1947 Allen, Buster P: Import as John Stuper (1982),
1945 to 1948 Abernathy, Robert LF: Import as Garry Maddox (1972), Ht. 5'9 Wt. 170 Born July 12, 1918 Columbia,TN B/T: R

[GForce]

Any ETA? A very interesting project.

GH

[Arlie Latham]

It's kind of fun trying to find major league equivalents based on a few averages and a description. For example, I need a 2B with Chuck Knoblach-like stats but who only played 5 to 7 years.

I will give an ETA as I progress. I just started this today.

Unless someone wants to add the finished work to a modified database, you would have to import all of the significant negro league players for that particular year. Couple that with my negro league name list and you've got yourself and good basis for a Negro League team.

I am also going to include Bingo Long (as a pitcher--he's a catcher in the book) as well as the other characters from the story.

[spark240]

Originally Posted by Arlie Latham

It's kind of fun trying to find major league equivalents based on a few averages and a description. For example, I need a 2B with Chuck Knoblach-like stats but who only played 5 to 7 years...

Why not just make it up? That's as likely to be "accurate" as what you're doing, isn't it?

[Arlie Latham]

That actually goes along with my new plan for this roster. I have decided to take the list and add them to the existing database. Initially, I was going to do try to replay history with the Negro Leagues dissolving in the 1950s, but I believe I will have baseball integrate almost from the onset of its existence with the arrival of Fleetwood Walker.

This will take longer, but I want to see how the universe plays out not only when Satchel Paige faces Babe Ruth, but to see how some of the good negro league players fare. What teams will sign them and what white players will have to find new homes?

So, I will continue working on this roster set, but not as a separate entity, but as part of the whole fabric of baseball players.

[RockiesFan]

This latest idea of yours is fascinating. I have often wondered this myself. I will be very interested to hear how it goes for you...

[Cool Papa Bell]

I had done this with OOTP 6, beginning in 1901 and using the career mode. I had the game import historical rookies and then let it run it's course from there. I'm in 1923 and have some interesting results. I didn't use random players and re-name them though. I hand created each player from scratch in V6 using the create free agent function. All total, 298 Negro League players debuted in the Majors between 1901 and 1923. Some were minor league lifers...others went on to HoF careers. There were some surprises...some disappointments. But all in all it has been a blast.

I started this project about a year ago and will integrate a total of 921 Negro League players into MLB up until 1950.

I'd love to hear some of your results as well.

[Arlie Latham]

Some of the players have pretty solid major league counterparts. Also, the encylopedia I use gives several statistical marks as well as a description of just what type of ball player he was. Line drive hitter, some power, utility player etc.

I try to find a major league counterpart that played a similar number of years at the same position. Then, I use the "similar player" features in baseball reference to find the ballplayer to best match the stats and description given. I will sometimes spend 15 minutes searching for the right player match for someone that played just 3 or 4 seasons.

For other players, I will have to compile the players. For example, John Beckwith is often overlooked. He was a powerhouse 6'3 220 pound Shortstop who hit prodigious tape measure blasts. He finished with a .366 lifetime average against Negro League competition and a .337 average in exhibition games against the major leagues.

Beckwith's career years parallel Rogers Hornsby. Beckwith's career runs from 1916 to 1938 and Hornsby runs from 1915 to 1937. So batting wise Hornsby is a good player to start with. However, I would probably give Beckwith a lower career average than the Rajah and some more home-runs once the lively ball era starts in the 1920s. Maybe in the .336, 400 Homer Range.

[Cool Papa Bell]

Thanks Arlie! I guess I was trying to figure out how out of the thousands of MLB players who have played over the years, how the names Luis Leal and John Stupor might have reared themselves.

I thought Beckwith was a few years later...like 1919 or 1920. He would have been 15 years old in 1916, though I guess in OOTP, high school players can be drafted. I agree he gets overlooked a lot, but it was nice he was included in the special committee this past year and was considered at least worthy to be voted on for HoF induction. There are so many others that fall into that same category unfortunately I think. If you used Rajah, the greatest RH hitter in MLB history as a contemporary baseline for Beckwith, who did you use for some of the other NeL greats?

Thanks!

[Arlie Latham]

The Encyclopedia I use, by James A. Riley, has some 4000 players in it. On the conservative side, I would say I will be adding 2000 of those. At a pace of 10 a day, this database will be ready for 00TP2007. I am doing this for all of the future OOTPs I would like to try. I don't want to have to keep importing and editing major league players. So, I will work on them once in the database and be done with it. These players are being added to the end of the database, so they can easily be cut and paste into future Lahman databases as well.

As for the greats, here are the players in the Arod/Garland database: As I reach these players in the alphabet, I will re-evaluate them myself. For example, Cool Papa Bell's equivalent is not Lou Brock, in my opinion, but more of a combination of Tris Speaker with Rickey Henderson-type stolen base numbers.

Here is the list of negro league players Arod/Garlan included in the DB and the player they were cloned from:

Position Players
Josh Gibson - Jimmie Foxx
Buck Leonard - Johnny Mize
Bingo Demoss - Johnny Evers
Ray Dandridge - George Kell
Pop Lloyd - Honus Wagner
Turkey Stearnes - Chuck Klein
Oscar Charleston - Tris Speaker
Martin Dihigo - Pete Rose
Biz Mackey - Mickey Cochrane
Buck O'Neil -Mark Grace
Judy Johnson - Pie Traynor
Willie Wells - Arkie Vaughan
Mule Suttles - Ralph Kiner
Cristobal Torriente - Roberto Clemente
Cool Papa Bell - Lou Brock
Newt Allen - Frankie Frisch

Pitchers
Hilton Smith - Dizzy dean
Rube Foster - Lefty Gomez
Bill Foster - Herb Pennock
Smokey Joe Williams - Nolan Ryan
Bullet Joe Rogan - Dazzy Vance
Chet Brewer - Bob Feller
Leon Day - Bob Gibson
Ray Brown - Ted Lyons
Andy Cooper - George Ruth (pitching stats only of course)
Satchel Paige – custom

Josh Gibson, gibsojo09, 1933, Jimmie Foxx
Buck Leonard, leonabu09, 1929, Johnny Mize
Bingo DeMoss, demosbi09, 1911, Johnny Evers
Ray Dandridge, dandrra09, 1935, George Kell
Pop Lloyd, lloydpo09, 1906, Honus Wagner
Turkey Stearnes, steartu09, 1923, Chuck Klein
Oscar Charleston, charlos09, 1918, Tris Speaker
Martin Dihigo, dihigma09, 1927, Pete Rose
Biz Mackey, mackebi09, 1919, Mickey Cochrane
Buck O'Neil, oneilbu09, 1933, Mark Grace
Judy Johnson, johnsju09, 1921, Pie Traynor
Willie Wells, wellswi09, 1927, Arkie Vaughan
Mule Suttles, suttlmu09, 1922, Ralph Kiner
Cristobal Torriente, torricr09, 1933, Roberto Clemente
Cool Papa Bell, bellco09, 1925, Lou Brock
Newt Allen, allenne09, 1923, Frankie Frisch
Hilton Smith, smithhi09, 1933, Dizzy Dean
Rube Foster, fosteru09, 1901, Lefty Gomez
Bill Foster, fostebi09, 1926, Herb Pennock
Smokey Joe Williams, willism09, 1907, Rube Waddell
Bullet Joe Rogan, roganbu09, 1911, Dazzy Vance
Chet Brewer, brewech09, 1928, Bob Feller
Leon Day, dayle09, 1938, Hal Newhouser
Ray Brown, brownra09, 1929, Ted Lyons
Andy Cooper, coopean09, 1918, George Ruth
Satchel Paige, paigesa09, 1928, custom