Pitcher signs for less.. while I'm negotiating with him?

tysok · 07-07-2006, 04:29 PM

It's better.

It's a lot better... but still not what it should be at all.
My ace that was asking for peanuts, and receiving peanuts in arbitration... is now asking for 5.3 mil, and I would guess he would get something like that in arbitration.... but he should be wanting a lot more, even without his greed.

This guy is asking for 9 mil a year:

This guys better (ratings wise a lot better), and only asking for 5 mil:

If 4 points of greed equal 3.4 million I'd hate to see if that top guy was really greedy. Murphree was injured in 2008 for 6 weeks, or his stats would have been even bigger. O'Mackesey was injured for 4 weeks in 2008.

tysok · 07-07-2006, 04:55 PM

I posted screen shots of this guy here:
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=126356

O'Mackesey was asking for 9.05 mil a year for 4 years. I offered him an average of 8.3 mil a year, plus a bonus if he pitched more than 160 innings of 500 grand.
I offered less first, he declined. Then I offered him that, he declined and on the same day he declined he signed a contract with the perennial loser of the league for an average of 8 million a year, no bonus opportunity. I've been to the playoffs twice, won the world series last year (only bring that up because his desire for winning team is fairly high).

If the guy is looking for 9 mil a year, what is he doing signing on 12/18 for 8 mil? Especially when he just declined an offer for 8.3 guaranteed, possible 8.8?

battists · 07-07-2006, 05:23 PM

Thanks for the info. Let me get past the initial rush of tickets and I'll document this one...

Another Mike D · 07-07-2006, 06:04 PM

That's a great name for a Puerto Rican.

I'm not sure that pitcher 2 (low endurance) is better than pitcher 1. It seems one has had a problem with injuries, and at best can give you 150-180 innings with similar output as the one who gives 220+. It's bad, but on the grand scale doesn't seem really bad.

Raidergoo · 07-07-2006, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tysok

It's better.

It's a lot better... but still not what it should be at all.

Topic is being raised elsewhere, with similiar sentiments. The thesis would be SP are underpaid.

TC Dale · 07-07-2006, 06:49 PM

Merged threads.

tysok · 07-08-2006, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TC Dale

Merged threads.

I started both threads... and they're two different issues.

One is, the original that low endruance starters are requesting too little money, and getting paid too little. That was an update, it was far far worse before this patch...

but...

The second one is that I offered a guy 8.3 guaranteed over the 4 years he was asking for with a bonus for him to make 8.8 if he stayed healthy. He refused my offer and on that SAME day he signed with a team paying him ONLY a guaranteed 8 mil with no bonus.

So the first requires a little more tweaking... the second is that the guy talks on the phone with me and says he doesn't want my 8.3, possibly 8.8 becaue he's looking for 9 mil guaranteed.... hangs up and dials up another team and says he'd be thrilled with the 8 mil they offered and signs on. His greed isn't high, but his desire for a winning team is, and he signed with the perennial loser, instead of a 3 (out of 4 time) playoff organization, for less than the offer he just refused.

tysok · 07-08-2006, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Mike D

That's a great name for a Puerto Rican.

I'm not sure that pitcher 2 (low endurance) is better than pitcher 1. It seems one has had a problem with injuries, and at best can give you 150-180 innings with similar output as the one who gives 220+. It's bad, but on the grand scale doesn't seem really bad.

The second pitcher was traded mid 2007... he pitched 235, then 206, then 185. An ugly trend I may regret, but nothing substantial yet.

The second one also has lower WHIP, BABIP, and OAVG then the first one... although ERAs look similar. He also strikes out more and walks less... but yes, they're very similar. It's not horrible... the second pitcher was asking for 677k before this last patch... but they should be a whole lot closer in asking price.

tysok · 07-09-2006, 12:20 AM

Bumping this since both, yes BOTH, of the issues are post patch and need to be looked at. Don't want it to get lost.

Matter2003 · 07-09-2006, 01:08 PM

Well, I can't really say that offering someone 8.3 million and having them sign elsewhere for 8 million is really a bug... Perhaps the player didn't like playing for your team anymore or wanted out for whatever reason...

tysok · 07-09-2006, 03:08 PM

It was free agency.

I would agree to a point, but to be asking for 9 mil and refusing 8.3 possibly 8.8 on 12/18 (standard MLB times apply) and signing with the worst team in the league for 8 mil, also on 12/18, just doesn't make any sense at all.

It very well could be something hidden inside the player... maybe that's close to his home and he likes his wife (although I can't understand that one).

The message I received was, that's not what I'm looking for, I'm open to ideas though. Wide open it would appear... I thought there were messages that were pulled if there were extenuating circumstances like home though...

It's just stupid to see this in this sequence. I offer 8 mil, he turns it down, I offer 8.3, possibly 8.8 and he turns it down, then signs for 8 mil elsewhere.

TC Dale · 07-09-2006, 03:52 PM

It is very possible that there are extenuating circumstances in this case tysok, but it sounds like you didn't offer the 8.8 but only the 8.3? I have always found that if I wanted to get a player, undercutting him by a little like the 8.8 would have signed him.

Did you not offer the 8.8?

tysok · 07-09-2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TC Dale

It is very possible that there are extenuating circumstances in this case tysok, but it sounds like you didn't offer the 8.8 but only the 8.3? I have always found that if I wanted to get a player, undercutting him by a little like the 8.8 would have signed him.

Did you not offer the 8.8?

My offer was 8.3 guaranteed, bonus of 500 thousand for pitching more than 170 innings. The other teams offer was guaranteed 8 million only.
It's possible this is fine, but he just doesn't have any business sense.

Once you've got a guy increasing his offers you shouldn't sign somewhere else for less, esepcially on the same day you refuse his second offer.

battists · 07-10-2006, 10:41 AM

It sounds like there's a lot of room for interpretation here. Nevertheless, I'm going to log it as a bug, and ask Markus to take a look at it.

TT# 2127

07-07-2006, 04:29 PM	#1
tysok Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,925	Pitcher signs for less.. while I'm negotiating with him? It's better. It's a lot better... but still not what it should be at all. My ace that was asking for peanuts, and receiving peanuts in arbitration... is now asking for 5.3 mil, and I would guess he would get something like that in arbitration.... but he should be wanting a lot more, even without his greed. This guy is asking for 9 mil a year: This guys better (ratings wise a lot better), and only asking for 5 mil: If 4 points of greed equal 3.4 million I'd hate to see if that top guy was really greedy. Murphree was injured in 2008 for 6 weeks, or his stats would have been even bigger. O'Mackesey was injured for 4 weeks in 2008.

07-07-2006, 04:55 PM	#2
tysok Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,925	Pitcher signs for less.. while I'm negotiating with him? I posted screen shots of this guy here: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=126356 O'Mackesey was asking for 9.05 mil a year for 4 years. I offered him an average of 8.3 mil a year, plus a bonus if he pitched more than 160 innings of 500 grand. I offered less first, he declined. Then I offered him that, he declined and on the same day he declined he signed a contract with the perennial loser of the league for an average of 8 million a year, no bonus opportunity. I've been to the playoffs twice, won the world series last year (only bring that up because his desire for winning team is fairly high). If the guy is looking for 9 mil a year, what is he doing signing on 12/18 for 8 mil? Especially when he just declined an offer for 8.3 guaranteed, possible 8.8? Last edited by tysok; 07-07-2006 at 04:57 PM.

07-07-2006, 06:04 PM	#4
Another Mike D All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: atl Posts: 891	That's a great name for a Puerto Rican. I'm not sure that pitcher 2 (low endurance) is better than pitcher 1. It seems one has had a problem with injuries, and at best can give you 150-180 innings with similar output as the one who gives 220+. It's bad, but on the grand scale doesn't seem really bad. __________________ San Diego Padres NexGen Baseball League Cleveland Indians United Baseball League Co-commissioner of United Baseball League

07-07-2006, 06:49 PM	#6
TC Dale Global Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,962	Merged threads. __________________ ----------------------------------

07-09-2006, 01:08 PM	#10
Matter2003 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: In the vicinity of Buffalo,NY Posts: 1,634	Well, I can't really say that offering someone 8.3 million and having them sign elsewhere for 8 million is really a bug... Perhaps the player didn't like playing for your team anymore or wanted out for whatever reason... __________________ Goal Line Stand Football---An Open Source Project Check us out on the Git Hub Pages: Goal-Line-Stand-Football

07-07-2006, 05:23 PM	#3
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	Thanks for the info. Let me get past the initial rush of tickets and I'll document this one...

07-09-2006, 12:20 AM	#9
tysok Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,925	Bumping this since both, yes BOTH, of the issues are post patch and need to be looked at. Don't want it to get lost.

07-09-2006, 03:08 PM	#11
tysok Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,925	It was free agency. I would agree to a point, but to be asking for 9 mil and refusing 8.3 possibly 8.8 on 12/18 (standard MLB times apply) and signing with the worst team in the league for 8 mil, also on 12/18, just doesn't make any sense at all. It very well could be something hidden inside the player... maybe that's close to his home and he likes his wife (although I can't understand that one). The message I received was, that's not what I'm looking for, I'm open to ideas though. Wide open it would appear... I thought there were messages that were pulled if there were extenuating circumstances like home though... It's just stupid to see this in this sequence. I offer 8 mil, he turns it down, I offer 8.3, possibly 8.8 and he turns it down, then signs for 8 mil elsewhere.

07-09-2006, 03:52 PM	#12
TC Dale Global Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,962	It is very possible that there are extenuating circumstances in this case tysok, but it sounds like you didn't offer the 8.8 but only the 8.3? I have always found that if I wanted to get a player, undercutting him by a little like the 8.8 would have signed him. Did you not offer the 8.8? __________________ ----------------------------------

07-10-2006, 10:41 AM	#14
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	It sounds like there's a lot of room for interpretation here. Nevertheless, I'm going to log it as a bug, and ask Markus to take a look at it. TT# 2127