Left Handed 2B,SS,3B

[rdomico]

Will the new version only create 2B, SS, or 3B players that throw with their right hand? The old version did not account for this. I realize that this has no real affect on the game other than it looks stupid on their player card, but I still would like it to be correct.

Also, the game should not allow you to teach a player to be a 2B, SS , or 3B that does not throw with their right hand.

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by rdomico

Will the new version only create 2B, SS, or 3B players that throw with their right hand? The old version did not account for this. I realize that this has no real affect on the game other than it looks stupid on their player card, but I still would like it to be correct.

Also, the game should not allow you to teach a player to be a 2B, SS , or 3B that does not throw with their right hand.

Why not?

[sfeldkamp]

They don't exist in baseball. Players on the left side of the diamond have to throw to the right side of the diamond for plays at first base. It takes too long for a left handed throwing player to change their body position to be able to make the throw. Most left handed throwing players play first base or the outfield (or become pitchers at an early age).

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by sfeldkamp

They don't exist in baseball. Players on the left side of the diamond have to throw to the right side of the diamond for plays at first base. It takes too long for a left handed throwing player to change their body position to be able to make the throw. Most left handed throwing players play first base or the outfield (or become pitchers at an early age).

They don't exist because managers say that it takes too much time. There are people who have the ability. The fact of the matter is it takes what, 1 second more, if that? Not to mention the gain these players get when going up the middle. That one second can be made up if the player has a good enough arm. But what happens to left handers with good arms? I like OOTP because you get results of what would happen if stupid opinions don't get in the way. It is just an opinion that no left hander can play on the left side of the field. And really that opinion is not a good one. Left Handers can play just as easily if they were given a chance.

Don't get me started on left handed catchers. There is abosulety no reason a player couldn't be a catcher and be left handed.

[andymac]

I think it should be possible. You don't see it at the major league level, but I would bet that there are a decent amount of these type of players at lower levels out there. They should be there, just very rare.

[Spielman]

Originally Posted by sfeldkamp

They don't exist in baseball. Players on the left side of the diamond have to throw to the right side of the diamond for plays at first base. It takes too long for a left handed throwing player to change their body position to be able to make the throw. Most left handed throwing players play first base or the outfield (or become pitchers at an early age).

"

A throw to first base on a play in front of a 2B, 3B or SS creates an awkward twisting throw that isn't nearly as strong as the simple cross-body throw a righthander has to make in the same situation. Bunt plays at third base are especially difficult. Lefty shortstops actually have an easier time on double plays, but the added difficulty of plays in front of them more than makes up for it. Second basemen generally have enough time to turn and throw, but double plays are all but impossible for them. All three positions are impossible for a lefty to play at a high enough level to compete professionally.

The old predjudice against lefty catchers, however, is groundless, IMO.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by sfeldkamp

They don't exist in baseball. Players on the left side of the diamond have to throw to the right side of the diamond for plays at first base. It takes too long for a left handed throwing player to change their body position to be able to make the throw. Most left handed throwing players play first base or the outfield (or become pitchers at an early age).

At high school and college levels you will find left handed middle IF due to shortage of players or they are such good fielders you cannot place them anywhere else.
They are just as good of fielders as right handed players and their throwing ability does not suffer.
It just an old baseball myth that has no basis in reality but has been clung to for whatever reason and now will not be let go of.

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by Spielman

"

A throw to first base on a play in front of a 2B, 3B or SS creates an awkward twisting throw that isn't nearly as strong as the simple cross-body throw a righthander has to make in the same situation. Bunt plays at third base are especially difficult. Lefty shortstops actually have an easier time on double plays, but the added difficulty of plays in front of them more than makes up for it. Second basemen generally have enough time to turn and throw, but double plays are all but impossible for them. All three positions are impossible for a lefty to play at a high enough level to compete professionally.

The old predjudice against lefty catchers, however, is groundless, IMO.

With the right mechanics, no it is not an awkward and no it is not hard. The biggest problem is the player will have to have a strong arm. Most lefties with strong enough arms are usually pushed to become pitchers.

[Spielman]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

They don't exist because managers say that it takes too much time. There are people who have the ability. The fact of the matter is it takes what, 1 second more, if that? Not to mention the gain these players get when going up the middle. That one second can be made up if the player has a good enough arm. But what happens to left handers with good arms? I like OOTP because you get results of what would happen if stupid opinions don't get in the way. It is just an opinion that no left hander can play on the left side of the field. And really that opinion is not a good one. Left Handers can play just as easily if they were given a chance.

Don't get me started on left handed catchers. There is abosulety no reason a player couldn't be a catcher and be left handed.

That argument holds true at lower levels, but not at the professional level. A lefty with a good strong arm can more than make up for his handicap playing third base at the little league level, and at the high school level should do just fine. But when you get to the professional level, competing against all the other third basemen who also have strong arms, a lefty suddenly can't make up that split second anymore against the stronger competition. Thus, he becomes a rightfielder.

[Spielman]

Jax, FJ, are you left-handed?

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by Spielman

That argument holds true at lower levels, but not at the professional level. A lefty with a good strong arm can more than make up for his handicap playing third base at the little league level, and at the high school level should do just fine. But when you get to the professional level, competing against all the other third basemen who also have strong arms, a lefty suddenly can't make up that split second anymore against the stronger competition. Thus, he becomes a rightfielder.

I think they can. Too bad we will never find out because of the prejudice that exists. If a left hander wants to make the bigs he can't play the infield. That is just the way it is. Eventually somebody will have a good enough bat and enough of an arm to pave the way.

[Spielman]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

I think they can. Too bad we will never find out because of the prejudice that exists. If a left hander wants to make the bigs he can't play the infield. That is just the way it is. Eventually somebody will have a good enough bat and enough of an arm to pave the way.

I just don't see it. I'm a lefty; I played infield positions in high school for the reasons FJ indicated... strong arm, too good a fielder to stick in the outfield.

The "right mechanics" simply do not exist for a throw to your left, with your left hand, while moving forward. At least not for as strong and quick a throw as to your left with your right hand.

[Spielman]

Dola: God, I feel like Phyllis Schlafly right now.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Spielman

That argument holds true at lower levels, but not at the professional level. A lefty with a good strong arm can more than make up for his handicap playing third base at the little league level, and at the high school level should do just fine. But when you get to the professional level, competing against all the other third basemen who also have strong arms, a lefty suddenly can't make up that split second anymore against the stronger competition. Thus, he becomes a rightfielder.

That is because by the time they hit the minors they are told they can no longer play middle IF or they are forced into becoming pitchers.
They can compete, but the baseball minds that are deciding who plays what are throughly convinced that they will not make it.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Spielman

Jax, FJ, are you left-handed?

No
I played some 2B in HS but my arm was terrible so I played OF more and more.

We had a left handed SS and 2B on our team and he had the best IF arm I ever saw. The ball would shoot out of his hand and hit the 1B mit always shoulder high nearly tearing his arm off.
He did not have the best range in the world but made up for it by excellent posistioning and good footwork. He always made plays to where he could angle his body to throw towards whatever bag he needed to throw too.

He played for a major division 1 school and got drafted in the very late rounds but decided to finish up school and start a career instead of trying to make it in the minors.

[tysok]

Since the average run time down the baseline is just over 3 seconds, losing 1 second to making the turn would end up with less outs at first base. It's not very often that a play at first base results with the runner being thrown out 30 ft from the bag unless that runner has given up like a pitcher often does.

Any play where the throw is made on the run would be virtually impossible for a left hander. Any bunt down the third base line would be an adventure, just like a catcher, or left handed pitcher, fielding a bunt from a fast running hitter. The ball would also tail towards the baseline rather than to the outfield, a far lesser problem. A left handed third baseman would also have to cross his body and field the ball backhanded, costing a a fraction of a second and a much harder play, on any ball hit on the second base side of him. That fraction of a second can be the difference between fielding it or not, and the harder play could be the difference between throwing the runner out or having the ball trickle off towards second instead.

There's no reason there couldn't be a left handed catcher except 3 things. First, on a throw to second the ball would tail towards first instead of back towards second, unless the catcher can throw a screwball. Tailing into the fielder makes a tag a little easier than if it's tailing back to the runner. A throw to third would be quite difficult, there'd be more attempted steals of 3rd. Also the majority of throws would be made through a right handed hitter, catchers do have a little bit of problem trying to throw out a stealer at 2nd with a lefty at the plate, that would be a far lesser problem though.

[Kelric]

One second in major league baseball of a runner running down the line with a lefty infielder is the difference between an out with a righty infielder and a basehit. The mechanics are too slow and awkward for them to be able to do do the job in the bigs unless they are exceptionally talented. Imagine a second baseman, throwing righthanded, taking a throw from a shortstop on a double play. He can catch the feed and throw the ball in one motion without ever having to move his body too much. A lefty is going to have to catch the ball and spin in one direction or another to make the same throw. That time difference against a decent runner means no double play.

Now as for lefty catchers, aside from maybe a slight and almost innoticeable difference in throwing guys out, I think they can play without a problem. Throwing around LH batters for a righty catcher never seems to cause too much problem after all.

Edit - As for lefty catchers throwing to third as tysok (who was typing his reply as I typed mine) brought up, I don't think it would be that bad. You see righty catchers throw behind a hitter to first base once in a while without ever getting up. Lefties could do the same behind the plate. Sure it'll be a bit slower on the throw, but weak armed right handed catchers are in the bigs after all.

[silvam14]

If a fraction of a second difference is so important for a left handed fielder, why isn't the same amount of time important for a right handed batter who has that extra couple of step to first base?

I say leave the possibility in

[Kelric]

Originally Posted by silvam14

If a fraction of a second difference is so important for a left handed fielder, why isn't the same amount of time important for a right handed batter who has that extra couple of step to first base?

I say leave the possibility in

It is important for that speed. Ever hear scouts talking about a runner out of the box? Ichiro and Carl Crawford are ridiculously fast down the first baseline. Similar speed runners from the right side of the plate are of course timed slower. But right handed batters are just the way most guys hit - you aren't going to take a righty hitter and make him a lefty just to get an extra third to half of a second down the line. (Unless maybe he's a switch hitter who is obviously better from the left side of the plate, but that doesn't count.)

[Spielman]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

No
I played some 2B in HS but my arm was terrible so I played OF more and more.

We had a left handed SS and 2B on our team and he had the best IF arm I ever saw. The ball would shoot out of his hand and hit the 1B mit always shoulder high nearly tearing his arm off.
He did not have the best range in the world but made up for it by excellent posistioning and good footwork. He always made plays to where he could angle his body to throw towards whatever bag he needed to throw too.

He played for a major division 1 school and got drafted in the very late rounds but decided to finish up school and start a career instead of trying to make it in the minors.

I had an excellent arm too, and could still make throws that were impressive for the level at which I was playing. It was still a burden having to take the right angles and make the turns to make the throws possible.

I still maintain that as well as the player you describe was able to overcome the issues he had to deal with as a lefty shortstop, had he attempted to advance to the professional level as a middle infielder, he would not have been able to overcome them any longer. As you get closer and closer to perfection, smaller problems become bigger and bigger in their import.