Scouting Nations

BPS · 09-01-2006, 01:50 AM

I'm not sure that scouting nations is working the best it could.

When checking out the nation list I've noted that my team seems to be the only one that has signed players from "foreign" nations. For instance, the list indicates that 6 players are from Cuba and all 6 are mine.

Do AI run teams seek out and sign foreign players? I've not seen any evidence of that in my league. This certainly gives a human GM a potentially big advantage.

Plus, I play as the PCL (AAA quality) with MLB "above" my league. Are the quality of players found "out there" in other countries determined by the upper most league? I've found some really good foreign FA who have dominated at the AAA level although it appears that none of the MLB teams have signed any foreign free agents.

What are other folks experiences?

whobob · 09-01-2006, 05:18 AM

Yeah, basically what is making my team so great is that all my scouts are looking in other countries, where I routinely find the equivalent of 1st round draft picks that keep my minors crazy stocked. It doesn't seem like any other team does this, and I'm the only one finding gold nuggets in places other than the draft.

woburn · 09-01-2006, 07:57 AM

I second that opinion. I'm the only team to have signed a foreign player. In just the 3rd season, my starting LF, CF, and C were found this way, one reliever, and my top SP prospect. It sure does give the human team a big advantage.

1998 Yankees · 09-01-2006, 08:30 AM

BPS, I've read elsewhere confirmations of what you are saying - AI does not scout nations. Search the forums for back threads on this topic.

Some people find scouting nations fun; I ultimately found it troubling for the reason that you give: to much advantage to the human GM. Plus, it's kinda dumb, in my opinion.

You have an amateur draft with foreign players from legitimate baseball countries, but if you send a scout to Ghana or Nigeria (two favorite countries cited in this forum on this topic), you will eventually find someone who plays AAA+ level ball having learned baseball in a country with no professional league, while taking time off from farming, I guess. Then, if you look closely, you find that his actual nationality is Dutch. I don't know . . . thought it was fun, seems dumb now, sorry.

My advice - if you want foreign FA, set up foreign leagues and scout them just as the AI would.

scefalu · 09-01-2006, 09:17 AM

Add me to the list of people who think this is a good idea, but poorly implemented. I can go out and find 8-12 players who I can either use, or later trade for other players.

The best way to fix this unfair advantage for human players is to have the AI place some priority on scouting other nations. Until then, the world is your farm team!

The Wolf · 09-01-2006, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

You have an amateur draft with foreign players from legitimate baseball countries, but if you send a scout to Ghana or Nigeria (two favorite countries cited in this forum on this topic), you will eventually find someone who plays AAA+ level ball having learned baseball in a country with no professional league, while taking time off from farming, I guess. Then, if you look closely, you find that his actual nationality is Dutch. I don't know . . . thought it was fun, seems dumb now, sorry.

Exactly.

Pirate Fan · 09-01-2006, 11:27 AM

I've quit scouting foriegn nations because it makes the game too easy IMO. I was finding the equivalent of several high draft choices every year and I didn't see any evidence that the AI teams were doing the same.

bp_ · 09-01-2006, 02:10 PM

Markus has mentioned somewhere that this is gonna get adjusted/revised/something in OOTP 2007.

joek1972 · 09-01-2006, 10:05 PM

It's inexplicable to me that this feature would be added, but the AI doesn't use it. The attempt to make the game more of a "world" baseball game failed, at least on this go-round. Foreign leagues and international scouting are both very badly implemented.

The Wolf · 09-01-2006, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bp_

Markus has mentioned somewhere that this is gonna get adjusted/revised/something in OOTP 2007.

"Removed" would be best.

Zeyes · 09-02-2006, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

"Removed" would be best.

Well, you're already not forced to use it if you don't want.

bp_ · 09-02-2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeyes

Well, you're already not forced to use it if you don't want.

Agree. So improved would be the best. You can still shut it off.

Kemp · 09-02-2006, 11:22 AM

Just wondering, if you "discover" a player in a foreign nation and DON'T sign him, do the computer GM's "see" him?

I think I remember reading somewhere (the manual?) that if you didn't sign a player that you discovered, that other teams could/would bid on him. Is that happening?

1998 Yankees · 09-02-2006, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemp

Just wondering, if you "discover" a player in a foreign nation and DON'T sign him, do the computer GM's "see" him?

I think I remember reading somewhere (the manual?) that if you didn't sign a player that you discovered, that other teams could/would bid on him. Is that happening?

I don't think these hidden talents become actual players unless you sign them. I had my scout turn up a 3B in Canada rated 68 out of 80. I saved the message and purposely refrained from signing him for over a year. He never showed up in player search or among the free agents in that time. He had a player profile all that time, but he was not really in the game. Finally, over a "year" later, I signed him and then released him a week later. Sure enough, another team snatched him immediately. Hence the unfair advantage the human player has in this over the AI, unless you want to view it as having "perpetual exclusive rights" to the hidden player since your scout discovered him.

Kemp · 09-02-2006, 02:55 PM

I found the quote in section 16.8.1 of the Game Guide. It reads:
Note: Hidden talent that has been scouted will enter the free agency pool for your league shortly after being scouted, so if you want to sign him, be quick about it!

Your testing obviously refutes this but I thought I'd post it anyway.

I was just about to start a new league and with this information, I'm rethinking whether I should allow the creation of hidden players. It sounded interesting, but it's not worth it if it gives a big advantage over the computer teams. Then again, there's always the "sign and cut" work around you mentioned above!

1998 Yankees · 09-02-2006, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemp

I found the quote in section 16.8.1 of the Game Guide. It reads:
Note: Hidden talent that has been scouted will enter the free agency pool for your league shortly after being scouted, so if you want to sign him, be quick about it!

Your testing obviously refutes this but I thought I'd post it anyway.

I was just about to start a new league and with this information, I'm rethinking whether I should allow the creation of hidden players. It sounded interesting, but it's not worth it if it gives a big advantage over the computer teams. Then again, there's always the "sign and cut" work around you mentioned above!

I saw that in the game guide too. If it were true, then people would not be talking about the lopsided advantage aspect. As great a job that battists did on the guide, it appears that he did not have everything quite down on every minute detail, with the game changing as he wrote, I suspect. I look forward to any update that he cares to make now that 1.03 is out and final.

1998 Yankees · 09-02-2006, 03:28 PM

By the way, Kemp, now that Mr. Duffy has abandoned his General Zod persona, your avatar rules in terms of intimidation factor. Anyone got an argument with that?

The Wolf · 09-02-2006, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeyes

Well, you're already not forced to use it if you don't want.

Yes, but what I had to do is to edit out all of the nations that don't have organized baseball in some form. Once I did that things looked a lot more reasonable. But I shouldn't have had to do that.

1998 Yankees · 09-02-2006, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeyes

Well, you're already not forced to use it if you don't want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Yes, but what I had to do is to edit out all of the nations that don't have organized baseball in some form. Once I did that things looked a lot more reasonable. But I shouldn't have had to do that.

I think Zeyes meant that you could still have scouting, but you could just choose not to "Scout Nation" if that suits you, which it would me if I liked scouting at all, which I don't. How's that for a sentence? Not sure what you meant; why would you remove non-baseball nations in order not to scout them? Won't this have an impact on your future amateur drafts?

I do agree with your "Removed" comment, however; a feature that basically does not work as intended should be either fixed or removed from the game. There are plenty of people who would fight for this feature, though, because they like the thrill of discovery, human advantage notwithstanding.

Kemp · 09-02-2006, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

By the way, Kemp, now that Mr. Duffy has abandoned his General Zod persona, your avatar rules in terms of intimidation factor. Anyone got an argument with that?

That's actually my prom picture. I'm VERY cool.

09-01-2006, 01:50 AM	#1
BPS All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 717	Scouting Nations I'm not sure that scouting nations is working the best it could. When checking out the nation list I've noted that my team seems to be the only one that has signed players from "foreign" nations. For instance, the list indicates that 6 players are from Cuba and all 6 are mine. Do AI run teams seek out and sign foreign players? I've not seen any evidence of that in my league. This certainly gives a human GM a potentially big advantage. Plus, I play as the PCL (AAA quality) with MLB "above" my league. Are the quality of players found "out there" in other countries determined by the upper most league? I've found some really good foreign FA who have dominated at the AAA level although it appears that none of the MLB teams have signed any foreign free agents. What are other folks experiences?

09-01-2006, 09:17 AM	#5
scefalu Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 355	Add me to the list of people who think this is a good idea, but poorly implemented. I can go out and find 8-12 players who I can either use, or later trade for other players. The best way to fix this unfair advantage for human players is to have the AI place some priority on scouting other nations. Until then, the world is your farm team! __________________ Shawn

09-01-2006, 02:10 PM	#8
bp_ Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 2,804	Markus has mentioned somewhere that this is gonna get adjusted/revised/something in OOTP 2007. __________________ Commish: Over The Mound

09-01-2006, 05:18 AM	#2
whobob Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 85	Yeah, basically what is making my team so great is that all my scouts are looking in other countries, where I routinely find the equivalent of 1st round draft picks that keep my minors crazy stocked. It doesn't seem like any other team does this, and I'm the only one finding gold nuggets in places other than the draft.

09-01-2006, 07:57 AM	#3
woburn Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 191	I second that opinion. I'm the only team to have signed a foreign player. In just the 3rd season, my starting LF, CF, and C were found this way, one reliever, and my top SP prospect. It sure does give the human team a big advantage.

09-01-2006, 08:30 AM	#4
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	BPS, I've read elsewhere confirmations of what you are saying - AI does not scout nations. Search the forums for back threads on this topic. Some people find scouting nations fun; I ultimately found it troubling for the reason that you give: to much advantage to the human GM. Plus, it's kinda dumb, in my opinion. You have an amateur draft with foreign players from legitimate baseball countries, but if you send a scout to Ghana or Nigeria (two favorite countries cited in this forum on this topic), you will eventually find someone who plays AAA+ level ball having learned baseball in a country with no professional league, while taking time off from farming, I guess. Then, if you look closely, you find that his actual nationality is Dutch. I don't know . . . thought it was fun, seems dumb now, sorry. My advice - if you want foreign FA, set up foreign leagues and scout them just as the AI would.

09-01-2006, 11:27 AM	#7
Pirate Fan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 166	I've quit scouting foriegn nations because it makes the game too easy IMO. I was finding the equivalent of several high draft choices every year and I didn't see any evidence that the AI teams were doing the same.

09-01-2006, 10:05 PM	#9
joek1972 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 45	It's inexplicable to me that this feature would be added, but the AI doesn't use it. The attempt to make the game more of a "world" baseball game failed, at least on this go-round. Foreign leagues and international scouting are both very badly implemented.

09-02-2006, 11:22 AM	#13
Kemp All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,181	Just wondering, if you "discover" a player in a foreign nation and DON'T sign him, do the computer GM's "see" him? I think I remember reading somewhere (the manual?) that if you didn't sign a player that you discovered, that other teams could/would bid on him. Is that happening?

09-02-2006, 02:55 PM	#15
Kemp All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,181	I found the quote in section 16.8.1 of the Game Guide. It reads: Note: Hidden talent that has been scouted will enter the free agency pool for your league shortly after being scouted, so if you want to sign him, be quick about it! Your testing obviously refutes this but I thought I'd post it anyway. I was just about to start a new league and with this information, I'm rethinking whether I should allow the creation of hidden players. It sounded interesting, but it's not worth it if it gives a big advantage over the computer teams. Then again, there's always the "sign and cut" work around you mentioned above!

09-02-2006, 03:28 PM	#17
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	By the way, Kemp, now that Mr. Duffy has abandoned his General Zod persona, your avatar rules in terms of intimidation factor. Anyone got an argument with that?