Learning Curve?

deadringer · 04-28-2006, 04:07 PM

So, so much has discussed lately how different the game is and that the manual is necessary reading. Just how long is the learning curve going to be for the average user?

I'm really starting to wish the manual would be released early so I can figure this ****** out, otherwise I'll be starting my league in July!

SSG Troyer · 04-28-2006, 04:15 PM

Much like the recent blog suggests, I intend to run a smallish league to get the feel for the game before starting up my real one ...

Cras · 04-28-2006, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSG Troyer

Much like the recent blog suggests, I intend to run a smallish league to get the feel for the game before starting up my real one ...

Ditto.

battists · 04-28-2006, 04:56 PM

Honestly, there's a pretty steep learning curve, but I think it's only so steep because veteran OOTP players are expecting something more OOTP-like. There's that sense of "Wait, that shouldn't be there!" or "I liked the old way better" on occasion.

But, as you've seen in the blogs, in most cases a little bit of playing and you start to get a feel for it. IMHO, this is a more intuitive and flexible interface. I wouldn't say it's flawless. There's FAR too much data in this game, flat out, to be able to avoid some options that require a little too much clicking on occasion.

I definitely feel, though, that there is a distinction between "steep learning curve" and "poorly designed interface." I think OOTPB suffers from the former, not the latter. Although, of course, the latter is frequently a matter of opinion and playing style.

Ciao!

RBLwebguy · 04-28-2006, 05:11 PM

Start with the manual. Build the simplest of leagues to get used to functionality and expand your next league and so on until you become an expert. OOTPB is not the same game anymore. It has gone above and beyond in my opinion. Don't get into gigantic superleagues right of the bat. Take you time and enjoy it.

Sweed · 04-28-2006, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBLwebguy

Start with the manual. Build the simplest of leagues to get used to functionality and expand your next league and so on until you become an expert. OOTPB is not the same game anymore. It has gone above and beyond in my opinion. Don't get into gigantic superleagues right of the bat. Take you time and enjoy it.

This statement shows just how great it would be if we can get the manual at least a few days in advance. Just before release, at least us guys in the States, have a nice long 3 day Memorial Day weekend. Having the manual then would give us a nice headstart on understanding the new ootp.

deadringer · 04-28-2006, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBLwebguy

Start with the manual. Build the simplest of leagues to get used to functionality and expand your next league and so on until you become an expert. OOTPB is not the same game anymore. It has gone above and beyond in my opinion. Don't get into gigantic superleagues right of the bat. Take you time and enjoy it.

See, that's my concern. This is why I'd love the manual even just a day or two early. I'm going to have to learn the whole new interface. Although I see incredible potential I also see incredible potential confusion on my part.

I guess my big issue is that I play every inning out and I play at a snail's pace. I'd like to get at least one seaon in before next year's release. I know, laugh at me if you want but it could very well be mid June early July before I get my proper season started.

By the way, I'm not bitching about the release date here, I've been very impatiently patient. I understand why things are happening and why the game is being released when it is. Not trying to stir up any trouble, I'm just excited to get my season started.

Here's a somewhat related question. I usually start my universe with the current MLB teams and players (circa the opening day rosters) and then let it roll into a realistic fictional league. Assuming our resident roster makers have a good solid universe for download soon after the game's release, will that shorten the learning curve? I'm not looking to do much creating, just start off with a real world system.

Thanks for the replies!

Cras · 04-28-2006, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

There's that sense of "Wait, that shouldn't be there!" or "I liked the old way better" on occasion.

There was a lot of that when FM2005 came out. But after you get used to the new interface you see how much better it is and you can't understand how you put up with the old style of things.

endgame · 04-28-2006, 10:04 PM

While I understand the anxiousness, on the other hand, even though it's been available to me - and it's outstanding - I've avoided taking it 'in hand' and sitting down with it long during an examination phase. battists is very very very....there's ample justification for putting even more of those in this line ... thorough and detail-oriented.

What I predict may happen, in terms of optimizing the learning curve and developing your own preferences is that you'll likely have the game running and be examining the screens one by one with the manual available for an easy and quick reference of further clarity, explaining more about what you see when you see it. Further, you'll likely be provoked to explore yet another area from the one you're currently looking at and be able to go to his section once you've arrived there and gain even more information about the location you just 'flipped' to from the last one. Able to move back and forth, as well as being able to skip 'a few screen back' will allow, I think, a real partnership with the manual as you decide your own pace and direction while either when apart from the other might reach either a cul-de-sac or simply lack the whole of what might have been gained with the other at hand.

Long way to say that the tandem approach will work very well to accelerate the curve for those real interested in getting there quickly, and that's all of you isn't it? There'll even be a method provided for those less interested in detail and more in quick immersion.

Sim Rat · 04-29-2006, 12:39 AM

I've only played OOTPB very sporadically, and only through the OOTP5 version. And mostly I'm just interested in doing some historical replays and solo draft leagues. But I've read a lot about all the expansive features of the new version, and I'm wondering if the game might end up being too detailed to do the more simple simulations that I'm interested in doing.

I think my learning curve for the new version will be far smaller than it will be for most people, given that I haven't played OOTPB that much and I've played Football Manager for a decade. But I'm wondering if the game is about to extend beyond the scope of being able to use it merely as a standard text-based simulation

Malleus Dei · 04-29-2006, 01:17 AM

I'm going to start out with a full-scale MLB simulation.

Hell, if you're going to fail, fail big.

Left-handed Badger · 04-29-2006, 01:25 AM

Well since I like to create some of my players in the league and that takes a few weeks. I'll probably run a league on the side through a couple months.

Marc Duffy · 04-29-2006, 05:39 AM

Put it this way, if after the game is out people have suggestions on interface improvements (or if they feel it's too difficult to pick up and play) you know that Markus will listen.

Those of you that don't know us at SI will quickly learn we listen too and I think we can please most of you.

This is the dawn of a new age in Baseball simulations.

Parmie · 04-29-2006, 05:52 AM

Other than playing Hardball on the commodore amiga many moon ago, I haven't got a scooby doo on Baseball, I down loaded OOTP5 and struggled moving the game on in time let alone doing anything with my team, and uninstalled after 20mins. This new game, having SI involvement, I am hopeful that the interface is infinately more friendly.

I am planning to jump into the game with manual in hand and learn as I go, quite happy to report back as the guinea pig baseball noob.

Malleus Dei · 04-29-2006, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

This is the dawn of a new age in Baseball simulations.

Or the sunset of one. Time will tell.

Let's all hope that Marc's right.

jdew · 04-29-2006, 11:08 AM

As always, you can play OOTP in as simple as fashion or as sophisticated a fashion as you choose... and it won't be difficult to pick up or play. It will, however be different... (and better)... with new places to go and things to do.

A significant portion of the "learning curve" I suspect will be related to where some function or information is located and how something might be set up or tailored to get the universe and action you want. That simply takes some poking around to get accustomed to the new interface and to test various universe setups and options. That's why I'd suggest setting up a league you don't have to worry about gumming up to test drive the new release. There you can comfortably try out the new features and figure out exactly how to really want to use the game and how you really want to set up and control your universe. Once you kick the tires, take a couple test drives, find the things you want to use and see how the new things work, you'll be fine.

Its like this: You've lived all your life in a small town. You know all the people and where everything you like or need is. Now, you've moved to the big city. You can get a map (maps!? we dont need no stinking maps!!), get out and drive around to familiarize yourself with where things are and how to get there ... go places and do things... or not. If not then you are going to miss some of the great features, great places and new things to do in the big city. Once you've been out and about a few times, you feel right at home.

Le Grande Orange · 04-29-2006, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Or the sunset of one. Time will tell.

It won't be the sunset. That I can say with complete assurance.

Twelvefield · 04-29-2006, 11:49 PM

I've lived in both a small town and a big city. In both cases, all I have needed was to figure out the path from my home, to my work, then to the grocery store and back again. 99% of the time, I'm not much of a tourist.

04-28-2006, 04:07 PM	#1
deadringer All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: La Grande, Oregon Posts: 995	Learning Curve? So, so much has discussed lately how different the game is and that the manual is necessary reading. Just how long is the learning curve going to be for the average user? I'm really starting to wish the manual would be released early so I can figure this ****** out, otherwise I'll be starting my league in July!

04-28-2006, 04:15 PM	#2
SSG Troyer All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Somewhere to the left of 2nd base Posts: 1,598	Much like the recent blog suggests, I intend to run a smallish league to get the feel for the game before starting up my real one ... __________________ MWT Did Tennesee Delaware Mississppi's New Jersey? Idaho ... Alaska!

04-28-2006, 10:04 PM	#9
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	While I understand the anxiousness, on the other hand, even though it's been available to me - and it's outstanding - I've avoided taking it 'in hand' and sitting down with it long during an examination phase. battists is very very very....there's ample justification for putting even more of those in this line ... thorough and detail-oriented. What I predict may happen, in terms of optimizing the learning curve and developing your own preferences is that you'll likely have the game running and be examining the screens one by one with the manual available for an easy and quick reference of further clarity, explaining more about what you see when you see it. Further, you'll likely be provoked to explore yet another area from the one you're currently looking at and be able to go to his section once you've arrived there and gain even more information about the location you just 'flipped' to from the last one. Able to move back and forth, as well as being able to skip 'a few screen back' will allow, I think, a real partnership with the manual as you decide your own pace and direction while either when apart from the other might reach either a cul-de-sac or simply lack the whole of what might have been gained with the other at hand. Long way to say that the tandem approach will work very well to accelerate the curve for those real interested in getting there quickly, and that's all of you isn't it? There'll even be a method provided for those less interested in detail and more in quick immersion. __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________

04-29-2006, 01:25 AM	#12
Left-handed Badger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: at the altar of the baseball god praying for middle infield that can catch the ball Posts: 2,036	Well since I like to create some of my players in the league and that takes a few weeks. I'll probably run a league on the side through a couple months. __________________ -Left-handed groundball specialist -Strikeouts are for wimps

04-28-2006, 04:56 PM	#4
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	Honestly, there's a pretty steep learning curve, but I think it's only so steep because veteran OOTP players are expecting something more OOTP-like. There's that sense of "Wait, that shouldn't be there!" or "I liked the old way better" on occasion. But, as you've seen in the blogs, in most cases a little bit of playing and you start to get a feel for it. IMHO, this is a more intuitive and flexible interface. I wouldn't say it's flawless. There's FAR too much data in this game, flat out, to be able to avoid some options that require a little too much clicking on occasion. I definitely feel, though, that there is a distinction between "steep learning curve" and "poorly designed interface." I think OOTPB suffers from the former, not the latter. Although, of course, the latter is frequently a matter of opinion and playing style. Ciao!

04-28-2006, 05:11 PM	#5
RBLwebguy Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Canuckistan Posts: 5,162	Start with the manual. Build the simplest of leagues to get used to functionality and expand your next league and so on until you become an expert. OOTPB is not the same game anymore. It has gone above and beyond in my opinion. Don't get into gigantic superleagues right of the bat. Take you time and enjoy it.

04-29-2006, 12:39 AM	#10
Sim Rat Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 73	I've only played OOTPB very sporadically, and only through the OOTP5 version. And mostly I'm just interested in doing some historical replays and solo draft leagues. But I've read a lot about all the expansive features of the new version, and I'm wondering if the game might end up being too detailed to do the more simple simulations that I'm interested in doing. I think my learning curve for the new version will be far smaller than it will be for most people, given that I haven't played OOTPB that much and I've played Football Manager for a decade. But I'm wondering if the game is about to extend beyond the scope of being able to use it merely as a standard text-based simulation

04-29-2006, 05:39 AM	#13
Marc Duffy SI Marketing Wizard Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Old Street, London Posts: 4,741	Put it this way, if after the game is out people have suggestions on interface improvements (or if they feel it's too difficult to pick up and play) you know that Markus will listen. Those of you that don't know us at SI will quickly learn we listen too and I think we can please most of you. This is the dawn of a new age in Baseball simulations.

04-29-2006, 05:52 AM	#14
Parmie Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 9	Other than playing Hardball on the commodore amiga many moon ago, I haven't got a scooby doo on Baseball, I down loaded OOTP5 and struggled moving the game on in time let alone doing anything with my team, and uninstalled after 20mins. This new game, having SI involvement, I am hopeful that the interface is infinately more friendly. I am planning to jump into the game with manual in hand and learn as I go, quite happy to report back as the guinea pig baseball noob.

04-29-2006, 11:08 AM	#16
jdew All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,763	As always, you can play OOTP in as simple as fashion or as sophisticated a fashion as you choose... and it won't be difficult to pick up or play. It will, however be different... (and better)... with new places to go and things to do. A significant portion of the "learning curve" I suspect will be related to where some function or information is located and how something might be set up or tailored to get the universe and action you want. That simply takes some poking around to get accustomed to the new interface and to test various universe setups and options. That's why I'd suggest setting up a league you don't have to worry about gumming up to test drive the new release. There you can comfortably try out the new features and figure out exactly how to really want to use the game and how you really want to set up and control your universe. Once you kick the tires, take a couple test drives, find the things you want to use and see how the new things work, you'll be fine. Its like this: You've lived all your life in a small town. You know all the people and where everything you like or need is. Now, you've moved to the big city. You can get a map (maps!? we dont need no stinking maps!!), get out and drive around to familiarize yourself with where things are and how to get there ... go places and do things... or not. If not then you are going to miss some of the great features, great places and new things to do in the big city. Once you've been out and about a few times, you feel right at home.

04-29-2006, 11:49 PM	#18
Twelvefield All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,188	I've lived in both a small town and a big city. In both cases, all I have needed was to figure out the path from my home, to my work, then to the grocery store and back again. 99% of the time, I'm not much of a tourist.