Jim Bowden vs. Isiah Thomas

Sublimity · 02-28-2006, 01:11 PM

For crimes against sports, I bring the trial to Talk Sports. Vote in the poll which GM is worse.

Cras · 02-28-2006, 01:21 PM

Isiah will build a selfish team, full of bad contracts, hire a coach with an even bigger ego and and even worse contract, then trade for more selfish player and even worse contract to "help" the team. (Edited by Admin for not following company policy),

Isiah may have single handedly sunk the Knicks franchise for decades. It will take a magician to ressurrect that team.

TC Dale · 02-28-2006, 01:45 PM

I have to agree with Cras on this one. Mr. Thomas has truly put the Knicks in a terrible financial situation for at least 10 years at this rate. Mr.Bowden's mistakes can be fixed in much less time than the NY team's miseries.

Still the season isn't over yet for the Knicks, and the team might start playing better. We might be all looking back and saying what a great trade he made for getting the "Franchise" in NY.

I would almost bet against it, though.

Sublimity · 02-28-2006, 01:48 PM

You really can't go wrong (or right) with either option. They're both abysmally bad at their jobs.

And is it just me, or is it more fun to argue who's worst than who's best?

Luis_Rivera · 02-28-2006, 01:49 PM

I've been on the "Jim Bowden is the worst GM in baseball" trolley for quite some time. Go back and look at some of my posts when it was rumored he was taking over the Red Sox job.

Sublimity · 02-28-2006, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

I've been on the "Jim Bowden is the worst GM in baseball" trolley for quite some time. Go back and look at some of my posts when it was rumored he was taking over the Red Sox job.

Yeah, worst GM in baseball. But worse than Isiah? They both have an impressive body of mismanagement. It's hard to choose. It would probably be easier if they were in the same sport.

Melo · 02-28-2006, 01:56 PM

Isaiah Thomas is the suq

Luis_Rivera · 02-28-2006, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sublimity

Yeah, worst GM in baseball. But worse than Isiah? They both have an impressive body of mismanagement. It's hard to choose. It would probably be easier if they were in the same sport.

Tough for me to judge across leagues, actually... since I know very little about basketball.

JDOldSchool · 02-28-2006, 02:46 PM

I agree with just about everyone in this thread. While I think Bowden is worse at talent evaluation (Isiah hasn't exactly brought in bad players), I think the best way to look at this bad GM thing is "Which guy has ****ed over his team the most?" and the answer is Isiah. If Bowden got fired today and a good GM took over, they could be a +.500 team in 2007. If Isiah got fired today, the Knicks are still in trouble.

Eckstein 4 Prez · 02-28-2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

I agree with just about everyone in this thread. While I think Bowden is worse at talent evaluation (Isiah hasn't exactly brought in bad players), I think the best way to look at this bad GM thing is "Which guy has ****ed over his team the most?" and the answer is Isiah. If Bowden got fired today and a good GM took over, they could be a +.500 team in 2007. If Isiah got fired today, the Knicks are still in trouble.

Agreed completely.

Melo · 02-28-2006, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

Tough for me to judge across leagues, actually... since I know very little about basketball.

hmmm...let's see. Off the top of my head, if Isaiah was running a baseball team:

c Variteck
1b Thome (full contract)
2b Soriano (if he was signed to a 4 year 48 m contract)
ss Renteria
3b Beltre
lf Womack
cf Beltran
rf Ichiro

sp Pavano
sp Burnett
sp Benson

He overpays for mediocre players, players with fatal flaws, players who are on the downside, are injury prone or malcontents.

QuestGAV · 02-28-2006, 07:01 PM

Isiah's team would have 7 corner infielders, 2 corner outfielders, and 8 left handed relievers.

mh2365 · 02-28-2006, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

Isiah's team would have 7 corner infielders, 2 corner outfielders, and 8 left handed relievers.

100% correct. He overvalues point guards and now has a team full of over-priced ones.

This reeks of Reagan-Mondale.

tim_uwrf · 02-28-2006, 07:16 PM

I wanted to be different.

TotalEnd98 · 02-28-2006, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

I think the best way to look at this bad GM thing is "Which guy has ****ed over his team the most?" and the answer is Isiah. If Bowden got fired today and a good GM took over, they could be a +.500 team in 2007. If Isiah got fired today, the Knicks are still in trouble.

But how much of this is an effect of "which guy is a worse GM?" and how much is the fact that it's easier to hide your mistakes in baseball than in basketball? Or should that distinction be made at all?

JDOldSchool · 02-28-2006, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TotalEnd98

But how much of this is an effect of "which guy is a worse GM?" and how much is the fact that it's easier to hide your mistakes in baseball than in basketball? Or should that distinction be made at all?

If Bowden had signed Cristian Guzman to a 6-year $10 mil per year deal, the Nats would be screwed just as much as the Knicks. It might not entirely true because that's 1 contract compared to 7 or 8 for the Knicks, but what if Bowden also gave Soriano a long-term deal? And if he had traded for a guy like Chan Ho Park or some other overpaid, ineffective player? Then not only would they be bad, but they'd have a really hard time becoming good.

darkhorse · 02-28-2006, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cras

1. Isiah will build a selfish team, full of bad contracts, hire a coach with an even bigger ego and and even worse contract, then trade for more selfish player and even worse contract to "help" the team,

2. and then rape the women in the backoffice staff.

1. Will?

2. You'll find this type of nonsense isn't tolerated outside the Off-Topic forum.

darkhorse · 02-28-2006, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cras

and then rape the women in the backoffice staff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TC Dale

I have to agree with Cras on this one.

Oh, really?

dodgecharger1968 · 02-28-2006, 08:06 PM

But look at what it's done for the game of basketball to have most of the selfish headcases all in one place! So much team play around the league, and we have Isiah to thank.

KurtBevacqua · 02-28-2006, 08:23 PM

At least Bowdon has gotten lucky and made deals that were at least decent. Other than hiring Larry Brown what has Isaih done that could be considered not a lousy move?

View Poll Results: Which is a worse General Manager
Jim Bowden	11	24.44%
Isiah Thomas	34	75.56%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

02-28-2006, 01:11 PM	#1
Sublimity Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: This thread. Posts: 3,199	Jim Bowden vs. Isiah Thomas For crimes against sports, I bring the trial to Talk Sports. Vote in the poll which GM is worse. __________________ mrs ria: I hereby dub Sublimity the Glorious Upholder of the 5B3. Current leading vote-getter in the Worst Poster in OT History poll.

02-28-2006, 01:21 PM	#2
Cras Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: LEO Posts: 3,789	Isiah will build a selfish team, full of bad contracts, hire a coach with an even bigger ego and and even worse contract, then trade for more selfish player and even worse contract to "help" the team. (Edited by Admin for not following company policy), Isiah may have single handedly sunk the Knicks franchise for decades. It will take a magician to ressurrect that team. __________________ The Chicago White Sox 1906, 1917, 2005 World Series Champions 1900, 1901, 1906, 1917, 1919, 1959, 2005 American League Champions 2000, 2005, 2008 American League Central Division Champions 1983, 1993 American League West Division Champions OOTP \| Orbiter \| SSMS \| FSX \| LoL \| MLP:FIM! Last edited by TC Dale; 02-28-2006 at 10:21 PM.

02-28-2006, 01:45 PM	#3
TC Dale Global Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,961	I have to agree with Cras on this one. Mr. Thomas has truly put the Knicks in a terrible financial situation for at least 10 years at this rate. Mr.Bowden's mistakes can be fixed in much less time than the NY team's miseries. Still the season isn't over yet for the Knicks, and the team might start playing better. We might be all looking back and saying what a great trade he made for getting the "Franchise" in NY. I would almost bet against it, though. __________________ ----------------------------------

02-28-2006, 01:48 PM	#4
Sublimity Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: This thread. Posts: 3,199	You really can't go wrong (or right) with either option. They're both abysmally bad at their jobs. And is it just me, or is it more fun to argue who's worst than who's best? __________________ mrs ria: I hereby dub Sublimity the Glorious Upholder of the 5B3. Current leading vote-getter in the Worst Poster in OT History poll.

02-28-2006, 01:49 PM	#5
Luis_Rivera Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,177	I've been on the "Jim Bowden is the worst GM in baseball" trolley for quite some time. Go back and look at some of my posts when it was rumored he was taking over the Red Sox job.

02-28-2006, 01:56 PM	#7
Melo All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Where the baned reside Posts: 1,428	Isaiah Thomas is the suq

02-28-2006, 02:46 PM	#9
JDOldSchool Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,023	I agree with just about everyone in this thread. While I think Bowden is worse at talent evaluation (Isiah hasn't exactly brought in bad players), I think the best way to look at this bad GM thing is "Which guy has ****ed over his team the most?" and the answer is Isiah. If Bowden got fired today and a good GM took over, they could be a +.500 team in 2007. If Isiah got fired today, the Knicks are still in trouble.

02-28-2006, 07:01 PM	#12
QuestGAV Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,008	Isiah's team would have 7 corner infielders, 2 corner outfielders, and 8 left handed relievers.

02-28-2006, 07:16 PM	#14
tim_uwrf Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Field of Dreams Posts: 1,998	I wanted to be different.

02-28-2006, 08:06 PM	#19
dodgecharger1968 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 223	But look at what it's done for the game of basketball to have most of the selfish headcases all in one place! So much team play around the league, and we have Isiah to thank.

02-28-2006, 08:23 PM	#20
KurtBevacqua Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,968	At least Bowdon has gotten lucky and made deals that were at least decent. Other than hiring Larry Brown what has Isaih done that could be considered not a lousy move? __________________ "The type and formula of most schemes of philanthropy or humanitarianism is this: A and B put their heads together to decide what C shall be made to do for D. The radical vice of all these schemes, from a sociological point of view, is that C is not allowed a voice in the matter, and his position, character, and interests, as well as the ultimate effects on society through C's interests, are entirely overlooked. I call C the Forgotten Man" - William Graham Sumner