Pitch counts to improve ERA?

mrbill · 12-13-2005, 08:12 PM

How do people use pitch counts, with any effectiveness (measured or perceived)?

I have started limiting lower endurance starters to a few pitches less than what I assume their endurance would allow. For a 60 EN guy, I say 91 pitches. 70 EN, 98 pitches, etc...

I've only done this to young pitchers,low endurance guys (in the 50s and 60s), and crappy guys that I just want to try and get me 5 good innings then get the hook without trying for 6 or 7 (even if they're doing well that game), especially since I have pretty good bullpens.

But, as a side effect, it seems their ERAs have improved and they outperform non-pitch counted pitchers with similar ratings.

Anyone else see a trend or done any research on this?

ibdb · 12-13-2005, 08:53 PM

I've used pitch counts on high endurance pitchers who were getting too many innings. It seemed I had a couple of very strong pitchers who were getting well over 250 innings, and seeming to run out of gas come the late/post-season. I also tried to reduce their innings to protect against injuries.

No idea if it really works or not (didn't run any sort of test), but it makes me feel better.

RchW · 12-14-2005, 07:54 AM

Pitch counts may help with more realistic pitcher usage, like the discussions on saves from closers vs other relievers. IRL I bet that managers listen to their pitching coaches and pull a starter in the 7th when he is leading 'cause you have fresh arms waiting. I know when I play out games I tend to go too long with starters who are leading.

If you sim games, pitch counts force the AI to use relievers and it may end up in more closer saves.

Elendil · 12-14-2005, 10:32 AM

Since tiring is a gradual process in OOTP, pitch counts require pitchers to be taken out before they lose any stuff, even before they become officially "tired" (yellow - or what used to be the in-game red). This may explain a slight boost in ERA.

There are downsides, too - pitch counts are applied strictly, so you may get a guy going on a no-hitter yanked.

mrbill · 12-14-2005, 03:05 PM

Yeah, I'm definitely playing the "better safe than sorry" card with pitch counts.

I don't mind someone giving up a no-hitter bid in the 7th if it means that the other 31 games he starts, he gets yoinked before giving up runs.

If tiring is gradual and not a disjoint event (like, the 99th pitch fine, 100th pitch tired), then pitch counts definitely should have a positive effect on ERA.

12-13-2005, 08:12 PM	#1
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 982	Pitch counts to improve ERA? How do people use pitch counts, with any effectiveness (measured or perceived)? I have started limiting lower endurance starters to a few pitches less than what I assume their endurance would allow. For a 60 EN guy, I say 91 pitches. 70 EN, 98 pitches, etc... I've only done this to young pitchers,low endurance guys (in the 50s and 60s), and crappy guys that I just want to try and get me 5 good innings then get the hook without trying for 6 or 7 (even if they're doing well that game), especially since I have pretty good bullpens. But, as a side effect, it seems their ERAs have improved and they outperform non-pitch counted pitchers with similar ratings. Anyone else see a trend or done any research on this? __________________ UBL - Best Online League Evar! - Los Angeles Dodgers: 25 seasons, 13 NL West titles, 4 WC, 8 NL Titles, 5-time Champs LBB v5 league (retired) - Detroit Tigers/Commish: 19 seasons, 18 straight AL Central titles, 2006, 2008, 2014, 2015 Champs! NGBL v6 league (dead) - Texas Rangers: 10 seasons, 4 AL South titles, 2 Wild Cards, one WS app Last edited by mrbill; 12-13-2005 at 08:14 PM.

12-14-2005, 07:54 AM	#3
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	Pitch counts may help with more realistic pitcher usage, like the discussions on saves from closers vs other relievers. IRL I bet that managers listen to their pitching coaches and pull a starter in the 7th when he is leading 'cause you have fresh arms waiting. I know when I play out games I tend to go too long with starters who are leading. If you sim games, pitch counts force the AI to use relievers and it may end up in more closer saves. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

12-14-2005, 10:32 AM	#4
Elendil Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the dynasty forum Posts: 2,318	Since tiring is a gradual process in OOTP, pitch counts require pitchers to be taken out before they lose any stuff, even before they become officially "tired" (yellow - or what used to be the in-game red). This may explain a slight boost in ERA. There are downsides, too - pitch counts are applied strictly, so you may get a guy going on a no-hitter yanked. __________________ Heaven is kicking back with a double Talisker and a churchwarden stuffed with latakia.

12-14-2005, 03:05 PM	#5
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 982	Yeah, I'm definitely playing the "better safe than sorry" card with pitch counts. I don't mind someone giving up a no-hitter bid in the 7th if it means that the other 31 games he starts, he gets yoinked before giving up runs. If tiring is gradual and not a disjoint event (like, the 99th pitch fine, 100th pitch tired), then pitch counts definitely should have a positive effect on ERA. __________________ UBL - Best Online League Evar! - Los Angeles Dodgers: 25 seasons, 13 NL West titles, 4 WC, 8 NL Titles, 5-time Champs LBB v5 league (retired) - Detroit Tigers/Commish: 19 seasons, 18 straight AL Central titles, 2006, 2008, 2014, 2015 Champs! NGBL v6 league (dead) - Texas Rangers: 10 seasons, 4 AL South titles, 2 Wild Cards, one WS app

12-13-2005, 08:53 PM	#2
ibdb Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 103	I've used pitch counts on high endurance pitchers who were getting too many innings. It seemed I had a couple of very strong pitchers who were getting well over 250 innings, and seeming to run out of gas come the late/post-season. I also tried to reduce their innings to protect against injuries. No idea if it really works or not (didn't run any sort of test), but it makes me feel better.