Are These Guys Hall-of-Famers?

[Padreman]

do you think these guys are HOF bound? both end of their careers
I had only their Major League stats show.Both of these guys played most if not all their careers with Tijuana (TIJ) are they at least worthy of their numbers getting retired by the team? what do you gentlemen think?

[jdono927]

EDIT: DIdn"t look at these stats well enough, so I would definitely say no for most of the reasons below.

[Honorable_Pawn]

The first one I say definitely no.

1. A career 2.0 average WAR per season is pretty soft.
2. He only scored 100 runs a handful of times.
3. He never broke 200 hits in a single season.
4. He never broke 100 RBI's in a single season.
5. His average XBH's per season are pretty tame.
6. He had a couple of seasons where he stole a lot of bases but other than that he wasn't that much of a threat on the base paths.
7. His career OBP looks to be below league average.
8. His career SLG% is ultra-lightweight.
9. He is only 5' 10"

This guy just played a ton of years without too many injuries and a couple of all-star seasons. But mostly, he was just pedestrian.


The 2nd guy...not a chance.

[TomVeal]

Both of those careers are above average, but, unless your league is offense-deprived, neither looks spectacular. Most of what Honorable_Pawn says about Hummel also applies to Thompson, albeit the latter has more (though far from fantastic) power and less speed.

There's a case for retiring Thompson's number, based on his long career with the team and extreme local popularity.

[Padreman]

That's what I was thinking about with Hummel hw does have almost 3000 hits but that could just be a product of having a long career. I was divided with him.

[The Game]

no. for both.

Padre how did you get so much space in between each column? When I post SS's of players they are all bunched up. Is it just a screen resolution issue? i have a 19" flat screen monitor. Game has window size as maximized.

[Padreman]

Originally Posted by The Game

no. for both.

Padre how did you get so much space in between each column? When I post SS's of players they are all bunched up. Is it just a screen resolution issue? i have a 19" flat screen monitor. Game has window size as maximized.

I was wondering the same thing I did nothing different

[actionjackson]

No to both. See Honorable_Pawn's commentary for reasons.

[joefromchicago]

That's an interesting career for Hummel. He had a lot of hits, but primarily because he had a lot of at-bats. He'd be ranked second in MLB career at-bats behind only Pete Rose. My guess is that he batted lead-off for most of his career. For a guy like that, then, his main stat is runs scored. With 1633 for his career, though, he'd only rank 39th in MLB, between Gary Sheffield and Robin Yount. Not terribly impressive. He may rate better in your league for runs scored (and for stolen bases), but compared with major leaguers, his main claim to fame is his longevity. I wouldn't vote for him.

Thompson - no way. If he gets in, Andruw Jones gets in.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

That's an interesting career for Hummel. He had a lot of hits, but primarily because he had a lot of at-bats. He'd be ranked second in MLB career at-bats behind only Pete Rose. My guess is that he batted lead-off for most of his career. For a guy like that, then, his main stat is runs scored. With 1633 for his career, though, he'd only rank 39th in MLB, between Gary Sheffield and Robin Yount. Not terribly impressive. He may rate better in your league for runs scored (and for stolen bases), but compared with major leaguers, his main claim to fame is his longevity. I wouldn't vote for him.

Thompson - no way. If he gets in, Andruw Jones gets in.

Andruw Jones isn't the best comp. His incredible defense at a defense first position (was there a better defender between 1997 and 2007?...I highly doubt it), plus extreme power at a position that generally lacks it, and a decent batting eye (leading to a career 111 OPS+ and a 111 wRC+, both of which are very good for a CF), makes him a HoFer in my opinion.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Andruw Jones isn't the best comp. His incredible defense at a defense first position (was there a better defender between 1997 and 2007?...I highly doubt it), plus extreme power at a position that generally lacks it, and a decent batting eye (leading to a career 111 OPS+ and a 111 wRC+, both of which are very good for a CF), makes him a HoFer in my opinion.

No outfielder - in any field - has ever gotten into the HOF based primarily on his defensive abilities (in contrast to middle infielders, who often get in primarily on the strength of their defense). And a career OPS+ of 111 puts Jones on par with Vada Pinson and Adolfo Philips among center fielders. Better than a sharp stick in the eye, I'll grant you, but far from HOF material.

[RchW]

I say neither and neither.

It's hard to fathom how the first player could get 2900 hits and produce so few wins. He produces little and is the definition of an accumulator. Al Oliver is the closest example found on a short look.

[Padreman]

As for Hummel he was a lead hitter most of career up until 3 season ago. HIs BA% season by season are not so great now that look at them

[Tram2Whitaker]

I would say it depends on how their numbers stack up against the rest of the league. I would have said no to Hummel, except for his SB numbers; in that regard I disagree with HP; those are elite steals numbers. I'd say strong maybe. Also, depends on his defense.

The other guy, not so much. 420 HR, that's good; but he plays a power position, and a .315 OBP (.258 BA) is really weak.

Trammell for hall of fame!

[PhillieFever]

For a position player to even receive HOF consideration, he needs to have been a top 2 or 3 player at his position for the majority of his career, and for me neither of these guys fit that bill, so the conversation ends before it even gets started.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

No outfielder - in any field - has ever gotten into the HOF based primarily on his defensive abilities (in contrast to middle infielders, who often get in primarily on the strength of their defense). And a career OPS+ of 111 puts Jones on par with Vada Pinson and Adolfo Philips among center fielders. Better than a sharp stick in the eye, I'll grant you, but far from HOF material.

I'm not saying he's going to get in, I'm saying he should get in. It's a shame that defense is not more highly valued because as the saying goes a run saved is every bit as important as a run scored, and Andruw Jones saved a ton of runs over his career. I don't see how Phillips belongs here because he only played nine seasons, and he was pretty much a part-timer with just over 2000 PA. Vada Pinson was a damn good player, not a HoFer, but a damn good player. His defense was slightly below average though, and that costs him in my book.

I think (and hope) that as we come to understand defense more, and are better able to measure it, guys like Andruw Jones, Kenny Lofton, Carlos Beltran, and Jim Edmonds will start getting the respect they deserve for the fantastic careers they had, and that's just centre fielders.

[Padreman]

One point I notice on Hummel he played part of the season with Cordoba and only had 49 hits but 15 of those were home runs. Not bad

[marc5477]

Neither are HOFers imho. Hammel's on base percentage is too low and his steal percentage is not great. Runs dont mean much on their own. Hits also don't mean much when average is low. HOF means both endurance and excellence in my book. These guys are not excellent.

[hfield007]

First off dying laughing about John Hummel, born in Bloomsburg, Pa.
My ex's last name is Hummel and goes to the college in that town hahaha

But on topic, in my eyes they are both open shut No cases imo.

[Honorable_Pawn]

obviously no bias in your response either...right?