base stealing or lack there of....

Hammer · 05-15-2005, 06:03 PM

I don't know if this is happening to anybody else but it is quite frustrating. I play out all my games and it seems like every time I click to steal 2nd, the baserunner will never get a good jump.

I particularly noticed this in my last game where the baserunner was a 3 in speed and 4 in stealing, the pitcher had a 1 for hold and the catcher was a 3 for arm. Not once but twice the pitcher throws two curveballs and the baserunner never got a good jump... I just find it baffeling that this player could not get a good jump to even attempt to steal 2nd.

The only way I am able to steal bases is to do a hit and run and hope that they swing and miss in order to steal bases. I think its ridiculous that this is the way I have to go about stealing.

Davey Eckstein · 05-15-2005, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer

I don't know if this is happening to anybody else but it is quite frustrating. I play out all my games and it seems like every time I click to steal 2nd, the baserunner will never get a good jump.

I particularly noticed this in my last game where the baserunner was a 3 in speed and 4 in stealing, the pitcher had a 1 for hold and the catcher was a 3 for arm. Not once but twice the pitcher throws two curveballs and the baserunner never got a good jump... I just find it baffeling that this player could not get a good jump to even attempt to steal 2nd.

The only way I am able to steal bases is to do a hit and run and hope that they swing and miss in order to steal bases. I think its ridiculous that this is the way I have to go about stealing.

Yeah, it's one of the more frustrating things in the game. And it doesn't matter the pitch, I don't think. I think they're just eye candy.

IatricSB · 05-15-2005, 07:54 PM

I've always viewed it as a way to tone down the numbers of stolen bases. Otherwise people would steal way too many. As for the pitch type, I'd agree that is just eye candy even though I've tried to find a correlation. With Sierra's BBPro, if you had a guy with 5 pitches, they seemed to be great regardless of their ratings. I've looked for the same thing in OOTP, but it seems to not matter whether the pitcher knows 3 or 5 pitches. I haven't studied to see if the pitch type has anything to do with success.

Davey Eckstein · 05-15-2005, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IatricSB

I've always viewed it as a way to tone down the numbers of stolen bases. Otherwise people would steal way too many. As for the pitch type, I'd agree that is just eye candy even though I've tried to find a correlation. With Sierra's BBPro, if you had a guy with 5 pitches, they seemed to be great regardless of their ratings. I've looked for the same thing in OOTP, but it seems to not matter whether the pitcher knows 3 or 5 pitches. I haven't studied to see if the pitch type has anything to do with success.

Yeah, in my experience, the knuckleball is the only one with effect.

dsvitak · 05-15-2005, 08:33 PM

I kind of like the idea of a player not getting a good jump.

Only a handful of players in a league will even attempt 80 stolen bases.

If you consider that they may get on first base 200+ times in a year, it SHOULD be a relatively uncommon occurence.

gmo · 05-15-2005, 08:56 PM

When this comes up I completely agree with the notion there must be some sorts of limits to not allow a player to simply attempt to still at will, though there may be occasional instances where it is kept less likely than it maybe should be.

But it also makes me wonder might happen if a real team built for speed had maybe a majority of its hitters try to steal basically every time they got on base like it was a video game. How would the defense combat this? How would the team's hitters be affected by that kind of action on the bases while they were at the plate?

jazzrack · 05-15-2005, 09:02 PM

hit & run acts more like a steal than a steal does.

I prefer to build my teams like the cardinals of the early to mid 80's and this game makes it very difficult to have guys like Vince coleman, willie mcgee, a young lonnie smith...ect.. all on the same team. If i sim i have to crank the sliaders all the way up to get even close. I also have to use a modified era to help recreate 80's type ball.

jazzrack · 05-15-2005, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmo

When this comes up I completely agree with the notion there must be some sorts of limits to not allow a player to simply attempt to still at will, though there may be occasional instances where it is kept less likely than it maybe should be.

But it also makes me wonder might happen if a real team built for speed had maybe a majority of its hitters try to steal basically every time they got on base like it was a video game. How would the defense combat this? How would the team's hitters be affected by that kind of action on the bases while they were at the plate?

but what if that is how you want to play, instead for the homer fest that it is now. using hit and run to try and get close is a piss-poor solution

gmo · 05-15-2005, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzrack

but what if that is how you want to play, instead for the homer fest that it is now. using hit and run to try and get close is a piss-poor solution

Since AFAIK the mid-80s Cardinals are a rarity in post-1900 baseball and not the current style I figure it should be difficult to replicate such an extreme in the game if there is some sort of damping that keeps from being able to attempt to steal virutally every time. To at least allow for the possibility of running wild in the game I think is a good reason for my thought experiment.

Fibonacci · 05-15-2005, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer

I don't know if this is happening to anybody else but it is quite frustrating. I play out all my games and it seems like every time I click to steal 2nd, the baserunner will never get a good jump.

I particularly noticed this in my last game where the baserunner was a 3 in speed and 4 in stealing, the pitcher had a 1 for hold and the catcher was a 3 for arm. Not once but twice the pitcher throws two curveballs and the baserunner never got a good jump... I just find it baffeling that this player could not get a good jump to even attempt to steal 2nd.

The only way I am able to steal bases is to do a hit and run and hope that they swing and miss in order to steal bases. I think its ridiculous that this is the way I have to go about stealing.

The important question is, is your team getting a realistic number of steals? Does your player sith the 3 speed and 4 in stealing have a comparable number of steals compared to other similarly rated players in the league?

jazzrack · 05-15-2005, 10:07 PM

nah, it throws the whole thing out of wack. so i adjust what i consider realistic

andjbock · 05-16-2005, 12:24 AM

Do your guys have decent speed numbers? A guy with a 4 in Speed and a 10 in stealing will have a good SB%, but won't get many opps.

ctorg · 05-16-2005, 11:41 AM

Strat-O-Matic has the best system I know of. The first roll determines whether the player gets a good lead. If the player gets a good lead, he has a particular chance of stealing the base. If he does not, he can still try, but his chances of success are far less. It's different for different players, and it's modified by pitcher and catcher hold and arm ratings.

dsvitak · 05-16-2005, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andjbock

Do your guys have decent speed numbers? A guy with a 4 in Speed and a 10 in stealing will have a good SB%, but won't get many opps.

Go onto baseball-reference.com, and look up Reggie Sanders.

In the last 5 years, he has 90 SB's...an average of 18 per year, to go with 30 total CS...6 a year.

A stellar 75% steal rating, but relatively low for attempted steals.

andjbock · 05-16-2005, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsvitak

Go onto baseball-reference.com, and look up Reggie Sanders.

In the last 5 years, he has 90 SB's...an average of 18 per year, to go with 30 total CS...6 a year.

A stellar 75% steal rating, but relatively low for attempted steals.

I actually meant running not speed, but nonetheless Sanders is real and in the game you would expect him to have high % if he had good stealing and running even with a low speed rating.

dsvitak · 05-17-2005, 11:34 AM

I guess I didn't make myself clear.

In other games, such as Strat-O-Matic, you could take Reggie's 75% stolen base rating, and have him attempt to steal 120 times, with approximately 90 successful steals.

ANY fast player can steal a ton of bases in most of these baseball games.

I LIKE the technique that OOTP uses....getting a good jump, or not. Only the high attempt/high speed guys will get the big #'s. This is a good thing.

andjbock · 05-17-2005, 11:37 AM

Ah. I got you now.

05-15-2005, 06:03 PM	#1
Hammer Major Leagues Join Date: May 2002 Location: Horicon, Wi Posts: 330	base stealing or lack there of.... I don't know if this is happening to anybody else but it is quite frustrating. I play out all my games and it seems like every time I click to steal 2nd, the baserunner will never get a good jump. I particularly noticed this in my last game where the baserunner was a 3 in speed and 4 in stealing, the pitcher had a 1 for hold and the catcher was a 3 for arm. Not once but twice the pitcher throws two curveballs and the baserunner never got a good jump... I just find it baffeling that this player could not get a good jump to even attempt to steal 2nd. The only way I am able to steal bases is to do a hit and run and hope that they swing and miss in order to steal bases. I think its ridiculous that this is the way I have to go about stealing.

05-15-2005, 07:54 PM	#3
IatricSB Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: California Posts: 3,493	I've always viewed it as a way to tone down the numbers of stolen bases. Otherwise people would steal way too many. As for the pitch type, I'd agree that is just eye candy even though I've tried to find a correlation. With Sierra's BBPro, if you had a guy with 5 pitches, they seemed to be great regardless of their ratings. I've looked for the same thing in OOTP, but it seems to not matter whether the pitcher knows 3 or 5 pitches. I haven't studied to see if the pitch type has anything to do with success. __________________ Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body; but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow! What a Ride!" Chicago(N) - Boys of Summer Oakland - 20th Century League Bakersfield - Wild Things Brooklyn - QBA Dodge City - NBSL California - ABC Dodger's Senioriest fan on the OOTP Boards

05-15-2005, 09:02 PM	#7
jazzrack Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: still kicking Posts: 3,229	hit & run acts more like a steal than a steal does. I prefer to build my teams like the cardinals of the early to mid 80's and this game makes it very difficult to have guys like Vince coleman, willie mcgee, a young lonnie smith...ect.. all on the same team. If i sim i have to crank the sliaders all the way up to get even close. I also have to use a modified era to help recreate 80's type ball. __________________ . "Never confuse composure for ease" Was once Head Cheese of Corporate League Baseball

05-16-2005, 11:41 AM	#13
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Strat-O-Matic has the best system I know of. The first roll determines whether the player gets a good lead. If the player gets a good lead, he has a particular chance of stealing the base. If he does not, he can still try, but his chances of success are far less. It's different for different players, and it's modified by pitcher and catcher hold and arm ratings. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

05-15-2005, 08:33 PM	#5
dsvitak Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,378	I kind of like the idea of a player not getting a good jump. Only a handful of players in a league will even attempt 80 stolen bases. If you consider that they may get on first base 200+ times in a year, it SHOULD be a relatively uncommon occurence.

05-15-2005, 08:56 PM	#6
gmo Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 3,399	When this comes up I completely agree with the notion there must be some sorts of limits to not allow a player to simply attempt to still at will, though there may be occasional instances where it is kept less likely than it maybe should be. But it also makes me wonder might happen if a real team built for speed had maybe a majority of its hitters try to steal basically every time they got on base like it was a video game. How would the defense combat this? How would the team's hitters be affected by that kind of action on the bases while they were at the plate?

05-15-2005, 10:07 PM	#11
jazzrack Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: still kicking Posts: 3,229	nah, it throws the whole thing out of wack. so i adjust what i consider realistic

05-16-2005, 12:24 AM	#12
andjbock Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somerville, MA, USA Bats: Right Throws: Left Posts: 3,637	Do your guys have decent speed numbers? A guy with a 4 in Speed and a 10 in stealing will have a good SB%, but won't get many opps.

05-17-2005, 11:34 AM	#16
dsvitak Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,378	I guess I didn't make myself clear. In other games, such as Strat-O-Matic, you could take Reggie's 75% stolen base rating, and have him attempt to steal 120 times, with approximately 90 successful steals. ANY fast player can steal a ton of bases in most of these baseball games. I LIKE the technique that OOTP uses....getting a good jump, or not. Only the high attempt/high speed guys will get the big #'s. This is a good thing.

05-17-2005, 11:37 AM	#17
andjbock Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somerville, MA, USA Bats: Right Throws: Left Posts: 3,637	Ah. I got you now.