Offering a Hall-of-Fame selection method (one solution to peak-and-career)

voxpoptart · 04-14-2005, 08:57 AM

For the record, here's how i make Hall of Fame decisions, my own solution to peak-versus-career. I like the results, although many here would not, so i offer it to anyone it appeals to. I was inspired by the many HOF-or-not threads.

I invented the system specifically to reward a wide variety of player types, and to be more potentially generous than is Cooperstown to sub-10-year dominance. It's less complex than it seems when i explain it.

1) At the end of each year, i assign an All-Star team in each league (i use two 14-team leagues). One started at each position, including a DH from any position; one backup at each field position; no distinction among LF/CF/RF as long as at least two of the outfielders play CF (for depth). Five starting pitchers, a closer, and five other relievers.

I use Value Over Replacement at Position, park-adjusted and modified by fielding, with a right to overturn close decisions to honor gaudy numbers a la realistic voters. You might use Win Shares or some less sabermetric approach. I assign MVP the same way, except that i often give the MVP to the 2nd- or 3rd-most valuable player if he, unlike the leader, helped win a division title.

2) In Hall of Fame considerations, a MVP award is worth 5 points; as is leading the league in VORP but being edged out for MVP; as is being the league's most valuable starting pitcher; as is having a spectacular pitching season but still being 2nd-most-valuable.

Starting the All-Star game, or being the #2 or #3 (or especially strong #4) starting pitcher, or being the league's best closer, or being all-of-baseball's best middle reliever: all 4 points.

All other All-Stars receive 3 points. Position players who have plausible All-Star-quality years but (due to a glut of good performance) miss the cut earn 2 points, as do the league's 6th-9th best starting pitchers and 7th-to-9th-best relievers.

The rest of the top 1/3 of position players receive 1 point -- sometimes this means 13 third basemen and 5 first basemen earn points, or vice versa -- as do the 10th-to-14th-best starters and relievers in each league.

Any other solid, above-average season is worth 0.5 points.

MVP of the league champion or world series is worth 1 point. The four best other performances in each playoff earn half-a-point.

A pitcher gets 0.5 points for his 80th win, and 0.5 points for each additional 20 wins.

3) I also, for players who entered the league's first year as stars, filled in back-history points, projecting previous performance from (a) their initial age, (b) the points they earned in the league's first four years, and (c) the draft-round in which they were chosen. Pick your own method; mine is a conservative one.

Beyond that, it's all an issue of what minimum score you want to use. My cut-off is 28.5 points, which seems to lead to almost three HOF-ers each year, which i like given the league size.

The most questionable case this cutoff allowed was a center fielder who came into the league as a 27-year-old first round draft choice, started five all-star teams and backed up one through the age of 32, won an MVP, and earned 2 points for playoff excellence while helping his team win two consecutive World Series. At 33, his batting average collapsed to .216; at 34, he hit .217 but with so much power/walks/speed that he earned half-a-point for above averageness; at 35, he was demoted to the minors mid-season. I scored him at 28.5 (two points for assumed youthful excellence) and elected him. If you wouldn't, set the bar higher. Enjoy!

best wishes,
- Brian

ctorg · 04-14-2005, 09:12 AM

Very nice system. I like its relative simplicity. How do you keep track of how many points everyone has accumulated?

voxpoptart · 04-14-2005, 09:32 AM

Glad you like! To keep track, i use a spreadsheet. I arrange the players by birth-year at each position, keeping track of everyone who scores a full point in some season or other. There's a column for name, a column for birth-year, a column for points earned before the league even started (for the initial players), a column for playoff points, a column for pitcher's career-win points, and a column for every season -- plus a grand total, of course.

I like arranging by birth-year, because as time goes by i see a graphic rise-and-fall of each set of players, and because at each position i can scroll quickly past the retired generation(s) to starting adding points to the current stars. I also like how a long career of solid-to-great performances just _looks_ like long and productive, at a glance, while short bursts, or single fluke seasons by mediocrities, leave their own visual signatures.

ctorg · 04-15-2005, 08:51 AM

You know what would be great to see in some future version of OOTP? The ability to add our own calculated stats to the list of stats. Even if it's just a few, it would be really helpful. That way, the game could keep track of things for you. It might not be able to do this one, since it includes All-Star appearances, but it could handle some of the ones people come up with around here.

Ken Bujold · 04-17-2005, 11:16 PM

nice system vox. i use one very similar.

5pts MVP Cy Young
2pts Rookie of the yr
1pt Gold Glove
1pt All Star
1pt Pennant
1pt World Series

Hitters

1 pt for every 50 hits
1 pt for every 25 runs
1 pt for every 25 rbi
1 pt for every 25 bb
1 pt for every 20 sb
1 pt for every 25 xb hit

Pitchers

1 pt for every 5 Win
1 pt for every 5 saves
1 pt for every 50 IP
1 pt for every 50 K
5 pt for every .1 below 4.00 era
1 pt for every 20 CG
1 pt for every Shutout

excluding the awards pts this bring the base number strictly on stats to 260+ for certain HOFs and 220+ for borderlines, leaving the awards and impact on team success and amount of black ink to tip the balance for or against induction.

like you i use a spreadsheet to track potential candidates.

i also limit the number of inductees to max of 2 pr yr following the hall's rules of 15 of eligibility. If they havent made it by then, well my bias not withstanding they simply were not the best of the best of their era.

04-14-2005, 08:57 AM	#1
voxpoptart Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 387	Offering a Hall-of-Fame selection method (one solution to peak-and-career) For the record, here's how i make Hall of Fame decisions, my own solution to peak-versus-career. I like the results, although many here would not, so i offer it to anyone it appeals to. I was inspired by the many HOF-or-not threads. I invented the system specifically to reward a wide variety of player types, and to be more potentially generous than is Cooperstown to sub-10-year dominance. It's less complex than it seems when i explain it. 1) At the end of each year, i assign an All-Star team in each league (i use two 14-team leagues). One started at each position, including a DH from any position; one backup at each field position; no distinction among LF/CF/RF as long as at least two of the outfielders play CF (for depth). Five starting pitchers, a closer, and five other relievers. I use Value Over Replacement at Position, park-adjusted and modified by fielding, with a right to overturn close decisions to honor gaudy numbers a la realistic voters. You might use Win Shares or some less sabermetric approach. I assign MVP the same way, except that i often give the MVP to the 2nd- or 3rd-most valuable player if he, unlike the leader, helped win a division title. 2) In Hall of Fame considerations, a MVP award is worth 5 points; as is leading the league in VORP but being edged out for MVP; as is being the league's most valuable starting pitcher; as is having a spectacular pitching season but still being 2nd-most-valuable. Starting the All-Star game, or being the #2 or #3 (or especially strong #4) starting pitcher, or being the league's best closer, or being all-of-baseball's best middle reliever: all 4 points. All other All-Stars receive 3 points. Position players who have plausible All-Star-quality years but (due to a glut of good performance) miss the cut earn 2 points, as do the league's 6th-9th best starting pitchers and 7th-to-9th-best relievers. The rest of the top 1/3 of position players receive 1 point -- sometimes this means 13 third basemen and 5 first basemen earn points, or vice versa -- as do the 10th-to-14th-best starters and relievers in each league. Any other solid, above-average season is worth 0.5 points. MVP of the league champion or world series is worth 1 point. The four best other performances in each playoff earn half-a-point. A pitcher gets 0.5 points for his 80th win, and 0.5 points for each additional 20 wins. 3) I also, for players who entered the league's first year as stars, filled in back-history points, projecting previous performance from (a) their initial age, (b) the points they earned in the league's first four years, and (c) the draft-round in which they were chosen. Pick your own method; mine is a conservative one. Beyond that, it's all an issue of what minimum score you want to use. My cut-off is 28.5 points, which seems to lead to almost three HOF-ers each year, which i like given the league size. The most questionable case this cutoff allowed was a center fielder who came into the league as a 27-year-old first round draft choice, started five all-star teams and backed up one through the age of 32, won an MVP, and earned 2 points for playoff excellence while helping his team win two consecutive World Series. At 33, his batting average collapsed to .216; at 34, he hit .217 but with so much power/walks/speed that he earned half-a-point for above averageness; at 35, he was demoted to the minors mid-season. I scored him at 28.5 (two points for assumed youthful excellence) and elected him. If you wouldn't, set the bar higher. Enjoy! best wishes, - Brian

04-14-2005, 09:12 AM	#2
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Very nice system. I like its relative simplicity. How do you keep track of how many points everyone has accumulated? __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

04-14-2005, 09:32 AM	#3
voxpoptart Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 387	Glad you like! To keep track, i use a spreadsheet. I arrange the players by birth-year at each position, keeping track of everyone who scores a full point in some season or other. There's a column for name, a column for birth-year, a column for points earned before the league even started (for the initial players), a column for playoff points, a column for pitcher's career-win points, and a column for every season -- plus a grand total, of course. I like arranging by birth-year, because as time goes by i see a graphic rise-and-fall of each set of players, and because at each position i can scroll quickly past the retired generation(s) to starting adding points to the current stars. I also like how a long career of solid-to-great performances just _looks_ like long and productive, at a glance, while short bursts, or single fluke seasons by mediocrities, leave their own visual signatures.

04-15-2005, 08:51 AM	#4
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	You know what would be great to see in some future version of OOTP? The ability to add our own calculated stats to the list of stats. Even if it's just a few, it would be really helpful. That way, the game could keep track of things for you. It might not be able to do this one, since it includes All-Star appearances, but it could handle some of the ones people come up with around here. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

04-17-2005, 11:16 PM	#5
Ken Bujold Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 13	nice system vox. i use one very similar. 5pts MVP Cy Young 2pts Rookie of the yr 1pt Gold Glove 1pt All Star 1pt Pennant 1pt World Series Hitters 1 pt for every 50 hits 1 pt for every 25 runs 1 pt for every 25 rbi 1 pt for every 25 bb 1 pt for every 20 sb 1 pt for every 25 xb hit Pitchers 1 pt for every 5 Win 1 pt for every 5 saves 1 pt for every 50 IP 1 pt for every 50 K 5 pt for every .1 below 4.00 era 1 pt for every 20 CG 1 pt for every Shutout excluding the awards pts this bring the base number strictly on stats to 260+ for certain HOFs and 220+ for borderlines, leaving the awards and impact on team success and amount of black ink to tip the balance for or against induction. like you i use a spreadsheet to track potential candidates. i also limit the number of inductees to max of 2 pr yr following the hall's rules of 15 of eligibility. If they havent made it by then, well my bias not withstanding they simply were not the best of the best of their era.