Using MR to close games

[ootpfanatic]

All things being equal, is using a MR to close games in OOTP3 disadvantageous compared to using a CL? Are CL's in this game programmed to handle the "save situation" better? I'm interested in what have you guys have found in your personal experiences.

[Specs]

In my online league, CDL, I have been using my top-rated middle reliever, Jack Dilauro, to close out games, and he closed out his first 36 opportunities successfully. Not sure how he's done since, because I haven't checked that stat recently, but I've noticed no disadvantage. In historical leagues, teams often use middle relievers to close out games because closers don't import on a regular basis until the 1930's or even 1940's.

[Killebrew]

I won a championship in a very competitive league with no CL at all, but I have also heard that there may be some extra edge or advantage that CL's have. I have not seen this myself, but it does seem there is slight advantage for any player you place in the closer slot. Generally better pitching stats at that position even with lower rated players.

[Mets Man]

I've used Middle Relievers in the closer position and have been actually quite successful. I don't really think there is a distinct disadvantage. However, the one problem is the "value" of the player according to the computer GMs. Computer GMs tend to value those players with the "CL" designation more, than players with the "MR" designation. Furthermore, there tends to be more "CL" players with dominating ratings than "MR" players.

I'd like to hear from the developers about this. Does the "CL" (Closer) designation (compared to a "MR" (Middle Reliever) designation) make any difference in the game? I don't think that the computer GMs should put more value towards "CL" players over "MR" players if it has no effect in save situations. Shouldn't trades value all depend on ratings and age?

[General Mike]

I don't think there's really any disadvantage to using a middle reliever as a closer. In the MLB66, I use Eddie Watt as my closer and he has put up great #s the past 3 years. I do think that if all things are equal tho, that a pitcher classified as a closer will do a better job.

[Aussie Mark]

I've used both MRs and CLs as firemen with equal success. The added bonus of using a MR instead of a CL is that they will be happy to work for "MR money".

[JML]

[quote]Originally posted by Aussie Mark:
<strong>I've used both MRs and CLs as firemen with equal success. The added bonus of using a MR instead of a CL is that they will be happy to work for "MR money".</strong><hr></blockquote>

Too true. Definitely the most underrated (and underpaid) players: those long-relieving workhorses!

[blynch10]

I usually go through all the players labeled as closers at the beginning of the year and change them to middle relievers. I had read a post before(not sure who to give the credit to) about doing this. It seems the AI will put a player labeled as a closer in over a MR that has much better ratings. By changing the CL to MR it forces the AI to put in it's best pitcher based on talent. I've never noticed a difference between the two roles beside trading value and salary.

[Steve Kuffrey]

I've used a MR to close my games in an oline league since the league started(about 4 seasons) and have had no problems and he is one of the top "closers" in the league.

[sporr]

I wish I could find the message, but at one point, Markus said that there was a slight bump to the closer in close/late situations. Of course, in practice I have noticed no distinct difference to speak of.

[marioh]

I've used closers in middle relief spots and middle relievers in closer spots and I haven't seen a big difference. Hell, I've even used a starting pitcher as a closer in a season when none of my middle relievers or closers were effective in the closer spot. He wasn't spectacular, but was alot more effective than any other pitcher I had tried in that spot that year.

I haven't seen any big disadvantages to playing pitchers out of their designated "role".

I actually had a closer who had an all-star year when cast in the middle relief role. The following year I made him the closer and that experiment didn't last too long as he seemed to get rocked every other outing.

[perez24]

I' like everyone else in that I use MR's if they are better.

If I have an MR ready for promotion in the minors and a plethora of MR's at the next higher level, I have been known to change him to a CL (and vice versa) just to get the player to the next level.

[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: perez24 ]</p>

[izman1999]

I wondered about this very issue prior to the start of the 1968 MLB1966 Online Season. I had two candidates to serve as my club's closer that year: CL Pedro Ramos and MR Dooley Womack. Ramos had a 6 rating in avoiding runs, while Womack had a 9 rating. I gave the closer's job to Womack and he pitched well for me in three plus seasons. His best season was 1969 when he posted a 1.81 ERA and saved 45 games for my New York Yannkees. The other two seasons, Womack had an ERA of over 3.00 and saved at least 30 games. Womack continued to serve as the closer for his new club through the 1972 season. His worst year was 1971 when he lost 9 games and had an ERA of over 5.00.

Womack's stats are below:

YEAR ERA W L S G IP ER BB K TEAMS
1966 3.33 4 2 0 84 92.0 34 23 62 NY,AL
1967 3.71 2 2 3 71 70.1 29 28 37 NY
1968 3.41 8 4 34 61 66.0 25 26 35 NY,AL
1969 1.81 1 4 45 63 59.2 12 22 41 NY,AL
1970 3.23 4 8 37 64 61.1 22 35 32 NY,DET
1971 5.04 4 9 29 58 55.1 31 35 31 DET
1972 3.62 8 5 31 66 69.2 28 29 39 DET
1973 3.27 4 1 1 58 77.0 28 34 46 DET,AL

[SmoothLikeNick]

I think that Foulke was a MR in OOTP2 and turned out to be a very dominant closer in most leagues I was in. I often have more than one closer on my roster and they are very effective as middle relievers as well. I consider the positions to be interchangable from the games I have played.

[IngredientX]

I've found it more challenging to use only CL in the closer role, and only MR in the middle relief role. If I want them to change, I have to spend the spring training five points.

I know that seems a little absurd, but it spreads the talent pool out, so assembling the perfect bullpen is a little more difficult. Playing solo, if you focus on aquiring only relievers through the ammy draft and everyone else through trading Brilliant relievers you'll never use, you can have competitive lineup with a bullpen comprised exclusively of fireballing closers with ERAs underneath 2.50.

Personally, I'd like to see either CL and MR become general relief pitchers, with no differentiation between them; or better, for there to be tangible risks for putting a MR in a CL slot (wilts under the pressure) or a CL in a MR slot (sulks about being knocked down the totem pole - I wouldn't be surprised if this were implemented in the game's e-mail system already).

Just my personal $.02.

~Gil

[Hammer755]

[quote]Originally posted by IngredientX:
<strong>or a CL in a MR slot (sulks about being knocked down the totem pole - I wouldn't be surprised if this were implemented in the game's e-mail system already).

~Gil</strong><hr></blockquote>

It is included already. Playing a season as the Atlanta Braves, I moved John Smoltz from the closer's spot into the starting rotation following an injury to Greg Maddux, but I didn't change Smoltz's primary position from CL to SP, and received an e-mail a few days later from Smoltz telling me that he was the best reliever on the team and should be the closer.

[IngredientX]

[quote]Originally posted by Hammer755:
<strong>

It is included already. Playing a season as the Atlanta Braves, I moved John Smoltz from the closer's spot into the starting rotation following an injury to Greg Maddux, but I didn't change Smoltz's primary position from CL to SP, and received an e-mail a few days later from Smoltz telling me that he was the best reliever on the team and should be the closer.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sweet!

[Dargone]

Nice