Grokking the Engine

congobeast · 04-04-2005, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Slick in another thread

The high/low thing also means that statistically bizarre years are basically un-replayable unless you make major concessions.

This is something I'm just beginning to grok.
Johnny's talking about a tendancy in OOTP6 to have tweaks to the league stat settings in the engine have an effect opposite what would likely be intended. IE: Add HR to the totals, and HR go down in the league. Subtract Ks, Ks go up.

Traditionally, I've played 1920s-1950s era baseball, with historical players (but not rosters). Over the past couple of months, I've been playing in the same era, but with a 'Random Debut' database, so that you can have Shawn Green patrolling right, with Joe Dimaggio in center and Bill Lee chucking. I've used the "Baseball's Rebirth" settings to define my league totals.

At one point, I must have slapped one of the 'calculate' buttons in error, because it altered my league totals to be completely out of whack- for example, it changed my HR totals to in the zip code of 12,000. (!?!) I didn't discover this for some time. I began to notice after several in-game weeks that my HR totals seemed awfully small- mid-June, the taters leader had about five. So, I bopped back into the engine setup, and notice the insane settings, and changed them back. Since then, HR production (among other things) has normalized to the lower where I'd expect them to be on a day-to-day basis (though, naturally, the yearly totals are still WAY short of where they should be). However, the end result of increasing my league HR totals dramatically reduced the HRs actually hit; while reducing the totals increased the HRs hit.

Has anyone else (other than Slick & myself) noticed this effect? Is there a 'why' in a FAQ out there I haven't seen? Just wondering, as this really urked me.

Gastric ReFlux · 04-04-2005, 11:18 AM

It's more than a tendency.

If you understand the engine, you'll understand this tendency. It's math.

Crapshoot · 04-04-2005, 11:18 AM

I'm just impressed someone used the word grokking in the proper context...

HolyCow98 · 04-04-2005, 02:48 PM

Its been that way since the start of the series...or atleast OOTP 3 (the first version I bought).

gcsii99 · 04-04-2005, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by congobeast

...Is there a 'why' in a FAQ out there I haven't seen? Just wondering, as this really urked me.

This may be of help - http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=72109

congobeast · 04-04-2005, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gcsii99

This may be of help - http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=72109

That does help... though the counterintuitive nature of the thing is gonna bug from from here on out.

Thanks!

Johnny Slick · 04-04-2005, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HolyCow98

Its been that way since the start of the series...or atleast OOTP 3 (the first version I bought).

Hopefully, v7 will dump this. My guess is that Markus accidentally did it backwards the first time he introduced the thing, and ever since then it's been a Microsoft-style "undocumented feature." Well... I find it supremely annoying that the only way to replay a league that has a batting average of around .300 with significantly less homerun power than today (i.e. 1930) is by making hitters hit lots and lots of extra base hits. Or that the only way to "successfully" recreate dead ball (averages sometimes as low as the .240s with lots of doubles and triples balancing out the very low number of homeruns) is by having guys strike out 400 batters a year. Or else - literally - the game will crash. It's stupid, stupid, stupid, and if it weren't for the fact that OOTP is by far the best text-based baseball sim out there, I'd probably go elsewhere.

Quote:

That does help... though the counterintuitive nature of the thing is gonna bug from from here on out.

Thanks!

My advice: make yourself a little spreadsheet in Excel that allows you to input last year's simmed stats, the league-wide stats you want to create, and the current engine settings. You'll still have to do the thinking once, but after that it's just a matter of data input.

Dan Theman · 04-05-2005, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aadik

I'm just impressed someone used the word grokking in the proper context...

Heinlein can finally rest in peace

04-04-2005, 11:18 AM	#3
Crapshoot Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: watching: DArwin's missing link in action Posts: 3,112	I'm just impressed someone used the word grokking in the proper context... __________________ Senior Senor Member of the OOTP Boards Pittsburgh Playmates- OTBL

04-04-2005, 02:48 PM	#4
HolyCow98 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Douglasville, GA Posts: 2,735	Its been that way since the start of the series...or atleast OOTP 3 (the first version I bought). __________________ NPBL Enjoying its 60th season Georgia GM

04-04-2005, 11:18 AM	#2
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	It's more than a tendency. If you understand the engine, you'll understand this tendency. It's math.