Possible 3 team tie for the wild card

jackflash · 11-06-2004, 06:40 PM

Quick question, what does the game do if 3 or more teams tie for the wild card? My league is 2 weeks away from the end and there are about 6 teams within 2 games of the Wild Card. Anyone ever have this happen and know what the game does??

jmm8356 · 11-06-2004, 07:09 PM

In general, the game doesn't handle three-way ties at all, and I wouldn't think the wildcard would be any different. So it will probably either (a) pick a wild card winner at "random" or (b) pick two teams to play a playoff at "random". If you want to be sure and schedule your own tiebreakers, you can try this method I devised. It worked fine the one time I've had to try it so far.

DaveDingman · 11-06-2004, 07:14 PM

I think it goes by runs scored. I remember in 1980 when the Eagles and Cowboys were playing for the NFC Championship, the 'Boys had to win by 25 points to take home the trophy. They almost did it too! Great game even though the 'Boys lost, I got to be there!

endgame · 11-06-2004, 09:48 PM

How does the game handle the wild card race at all? I know the Magic Number appears next to division contenders, but is there a report or page with wild card information? Or is simply a no-brainer (obviously I may be missing one) that everyone watches and monitors on their own?

sporr · 11-06-2004, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

How does the game handle the wild card race at all? I know the Magic Number appears next to division contenders, but is there a report or page with wild card information? Or is simply a no-brainer (obviously I may be missing one) that everyone watches and monitors on their own?

On one of the standings pages, it lists the Wild Card standings for each league so you can track who the winner will be.

endgame · 11-06-2004, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sporr

On one of the standings pages, it lists the Wild Card standings for each league so you can track who the winner will be.

Who needs a user's manual with you around to steer us in the right direction Sporr? Thanks for the tip. Learn something new everyday. Problem is I probably forget something too.

DaveDingman · 11-07-2004, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sporr

On one of the standings pages, it lists the Wild Card standings for each league so you can track who the winner will be.

Does it keep track of Runs Scored so we can see who wins a tie-breaker?

gmo · 11-07-2004, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveDingman

Does it keep track of Runs Scored so we can see who wins a tie-breaker?

To avoid any confusion this may cause, though the NFL does use points as one of its down-the-line tiebreakers (5th?, 6th?), OOTP does not use runs scored in any tie-breaking procedure beyond the fact that if you score more than your opponent in a game you win that game.

jmm8356 is correct in that more-than-2-team ties at least for division titles appear to be handled "randomly" - the tiebreaker seems to be team ID # as associated with, for example, the number in the logo file name. I have not experienced such a case with the wild card, but I would expect that it works the same way.

DaveDingman · 11-07-2004, 03:20 PM

Is that something the developers are working hard? I'm not a developer but is it easy to encorporate a "runs scored" tie-breaker?

Jabs · 11-07-2004, 05:49 PM

Why not use major league tie-breaker rules in the game? I found an article from Baseball Prospectus dated September 10, 2003. Here are a few scenarios:

What if New York and Boston tie for the division lead and have the same record as the West runner-up? Something like this, for instance:

New York 95-67 .586 Oakland 96-66 .593
Boston 95-67 .586 Seattle 95-67 .586

In the past, Boston and New York would have faced off in a one-game playoff, with the winner taking the division and the loser going home. The Mariners would have been awarded the Wild Card title, by virtue of having the best non-division-leader record. For example, if the Red Sox had beaten the Yankees in a playoff, then the final season standings would have looked like this:

Boston 96-67 .589 Oakland 96-66 .593
New York 95-68 .583 Seattle 95-67 .586

It always seemed unfair that only two of the three teams would have to play an elimination game, and one team would qualify for the playoffs without having to play their way in. Luckily, it never came to pass.

In a shocking display of common sense, Major League Baseball decided not to stop after one game, but will force all the teams with the same record to play at least one elimination game. Rather than scheduling tee times, the loser of the Yankees-Red Sox playoff game would now play the Mariners (at a coin-flip determined location) to see who is awarded the Wild Card playoff entry.

This passage deals with the three way ties:

Moving to the AL Central, a two-way tie would be determined by a normal one-game playoff. A three-way tie is a little messier; it would be determined by a two-game playoff. The three teams would be seeded based on their combined record against the other two teams, which currently stand at:

White Sox 16-10 .615
Royals 16-15 .516
Twins 13-20 .394

The White Sox play the Twins five more times and the Royals seven more times, but let's assume that the teams remain in this order. The White Sox would get first choice in a two-game playoff where Team A plays at Team B, and the winner hosts Team C. Once the White Sox make their pick (most likely Team C), the Royals would make theirs (Team B), and the Twins would be Team A. This would set up a Twins-Royals game in Kansas City, with the winner hosting the White Sox to determine the division champion.

And then I also found this info, written by the same person, on a website (all-baseball.com). It looks like it may be a bit easier to understand in this format. He mentions some of it may be out of date, but I don't know how much of it has changed in the past few years.

Here is the information on playoff tie-breakers, courtesy of the Major League Baseball website. This information was originally published in 1999, and some of it is out of date. For the most current play-off tiebreaker scenarios for the 2003 season, check out Everything You Always Wanted to Know about Playoff Tiebreakers but Were Afraid to Ask, which I wrote for Baseball Prospectus.

Major League Baseball Playoff Tiebreaker Info (1999)

When there is a tie for a Division Championship and the breaking of the tie will result in the losing team nonetheless being the Wild Card team, the Division Champion shall be:
a. the team with the better record in head-to-head competition, or in the event the teams have the same record in head-to-head competition,
b. the team with the better record, based on winning percentage in intradivisional competition, or, in the event the two teams have the same intradivisional winning percentages,
c. the team with the better record in League competition over the last 81 games played by each team, or, in the event the two teams have the same records over this period,
d. the team with the better record in League competition over the last 82 games, provided that the 82nd game was not a game between the tied teams.
If necessary, the subparagraph (d.) procedure of adding the immediately preceding game played by each team records shall be continued until such time as one team emerges with a better record and that team shall thereupon be declared the Division Champion and the other team shall be declared the Wild Card team.

When there is a tie for a Division Championship and the breaking of that tie will result in the losing team(s) not being the Wild Card team, the tie for the Division Championship shall be broken as follows:
a. Tie between two teams. The League President shall conduct a coin flip to determine the site of a playoff game between the two teams, the game to be played the day after the conclusion of the championship season. The winner of the game shall be declared the Division Champion.
b. Tie among three teams. If the tied teams have identical records against each other, the League President shall supervise a draw which results in the tied teams being designated the A, B and C teams. A will play B at the home field of A, the day after the conclusion of the championship season. The following day, C will play the winner of A-B at the winner’s home field. The winner of the game shall be declared the Division Champion. When, however, the tied teams do not have identical records against each other, their designation as the A, B, or C teams shall be determined as follows:
Team 1 has better record against both Team 2 and Team 3, and Team 2 has better record against Team 3: Team 1 chooses designation as A, B or C team, and Team 2 chooses from remaining choices;
Team 1 has better record against both Team 2 and Team 3, and Team 2 and Team 3 have same record against each other: Team 1 chooses designation as A, B or C team and League President supervises draw between Teams 2 and 3 for remaining choices;
Team 1 and Team 2 have same record against each other but better record against Team 3: League President supervises draw between Teams 1 and 2. Winner chooses designation as A, B or C team and loser chooses from remaining choices;
Team 1 has better record against Team 2, Team 2 has better record against Team 3, and Team 3 has better record against Team 1: Rank teams on the basis of overall winning percentage within the three-team group; team(s) with higher percentages select designation as A, B or C teams(s); when two or more teams tied in overall winning percentage, League President supervises draw between teams so tied.
c. Tie among four teams. The League President shall supervise a draw which results in the tied teams being designated the A, B, C and D teams. A will play B at the home field of A, and C will play D at the home field of C, both games to be played the day after the conclusion of the championship season. The following day, the winners will play at the home field of A, or, if A lost that of B. The winner of the game shall be declared the Division Champion.

When there is a tie for a Division Championship and the tied teams have the same record as a team having the better record of the second place teams in the other two divisions, the Division Championship tie shall be broken as follows:
a. Tie among two teams for Division Championship with one team having the better record of the second place teams in the other two divisions. The League President shall conduct a coin flip to determine the site of a playoff game between the two teams tied for the Division Championship, the game to be played the day after the conclusion of the championship series. The winner of the game shall be declared Division Champion and the team with the better record of the second place teams in the other two divisions shall be declared the Wild Card team.
b. Tie among three teams for a Division Championship, and one team having the better record of the second place teams in the other two divisions. The League President shall supervise a draw which results in the three teams tied for the Division Championship being designated the A, B and C teams. A will play B at then home field of A, the day after the conclusion of the championship season. The following day, C will play the winner of A-B at winner’s home field. The winner of that game will be declared Division Champion and the team with the better record of the second place teams in the other two divisions, on the basis of its winning percentage, shall be declared the Wild Card team; provided that where Team C defeats the winner of the game between teams A and B, the team it defeats, on the basis of its winning percentage, shall be declared the wild card team when the tied teams’ winning percentages, at the conclusion of the championship season, were below .500.
c. Tie among two teams for Division Championships in two different divisions, and second place team in remaining division. The League President shall conduct two coin flips to determine the sites of the playoff games between the two teams in each division tied for their Division Championships, both games to be played the day after the conclusion of the championship season. The winners of the games shall be declared Division Champions and the second place team in the remaining division shall be declared, on the basis of its winning percentage, the Wild Card team.

When there is a tie which affects only the determination of the wild card team and not the determination of a Division Champion, the tie shall be broken as follows:
a. Tie between two teams, in any divisions. The League President shall conduct a coin flip to determine the site of a playoff game between the two teams, the game to be played the day after the conclusion of the championship season. The winner of the game shall be declared the Wild Card team.
b. Tie among three teams, in any division. If the tied teams have identical records against each other, the League President shall supervise a draw which results in the tied teams being designated the A, B and C teams. A will play B at the home field of A, the day after the conclusion of the championship season. The following day, C will play the winner of A-B at the winner’s home field. The winner of the game shall be declared the Wild Card team. When, however, the tied teams do not have identical records against each other, their designation as the A, B or C teams shall be determined in accordance with the procedures set forth in subparagraphs 2(b) (1-4) above.
c. Tie among four teams, in any division. The League President shall supervise a draw which results in the tied teams being designated the A, B, C and D teams. A will play B at the home field of A, and C will play D at the home field of C, both games to be played the day after the conclusion of the championship season. The following day, the winners will play at the home field of A, or if A lost, that of B. The winner of the game shall be declared the Wild Card team.

I don't know how hard it would be to code this type of thing into the game, but if it is possible, it would definitely be nice to have real baseball rules to handle tie-breakers.

Eric · 03-01-2005, 12:32 AM

I ran a simulation using Halofan's 2005 rosters and wound up with the Orioles, Yankees and the Tigers in a three-way tie for the wildcard. OOTP6 just had a one game playoff between the Red Sox and the Tigers.

Baltimore was 9-4 against New York
Baltimore was 8-5 against Detroit
New York was 6-4 against Detroit

So my guess would be that Team ID# was the deciding factor.

I'm moving my team to Abbeville just in case.

rem · 03-01-2005, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

I ran a simulation using Halofan's 2005 rosters and wound up with the Orioles, Yankees and the Tigers in a three-way tie for the wildcard.

I think this is the larger issue here.

SandMan · 03-01-2005, 07:05 AM

The playoff is determined in alphabetical order. I just had a league with a 4 way tie out of 8 teams. Pi$$ed me off that I was Milwaukee and did not even get a chance for the wildcard. Appleton and Green Bay played 1 game, Appleton won finished 1st, Green Bay slid to 4th and I finished 2nd tied with Sheboygan .5 games behind.

To solve this issue in the future I plan on just adding a game to the schedule when I have a tie between more than 2 teams.

11-06-2004, 06:40 PM	#1
jackflash Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 281	Possible 3 team tie for the wild card Quick question, what does the game do if 3 or more teams tie for the wild card? My league is 2 weeks away from the end and there are about 6 teams within 2 games of the Wild Card. Anyone ever have this happen and know what the game does?? __________________ "You can observe alot by watching" - Yogi Berra

11-06-2004, 07:09 PM	#2
jmm8356 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Lafayette IN (by way of Tonawanda NY) Posts: 1,673	In general, the game doesn't handle three-way ties at all, and I wouldn't think the wildcard would be any different. So it will probably either (a) pick a wild card winner at "random" or (b) pick two teams to play a playoff at "random". If you want to be sure and schedule your own tiebreakers, you can try this method I devised. It worked fine the one time I've had to try it so far. __________________ Jeremy from Tonawanda --- Go Cubbies! --- Unofficial Theta Tester(tm) "Oh, we got both kinds. We got country and western!" From OOTP 6: Designated for Assignment FAQ (Includes both problems and solutions! Ooooo! )

11-07-2004, 03:20 PM	#9
DaveDingman Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 26	Is that something the developers are working hard? I'm not a developer but is it easy to encorporate a "runs scored" tie-breaker? __________________ Texans rule and so do their sports!

11-06-2004, 07:14 PM	#3
DaveDingman Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 26	I think it goes by runs scored. I remember in 1980 when the Eagles and Cowboys were playing for the NFC Championship, the 'Boys had to win by 25 points to take home the trophy. They almost did it too! Great game even though the 'Boys lost, I got to be there!

11-06-2004, 09:48 PM	#4
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	How does the game handle the wild card race at all? I know the Magic Number appears next to division contenders, but is there a report or page with wild card information? Or is simply a no-brainer (obviously I may be missing one) that everyone watches and monitors on their own?

11-07-2004, 05:49 PM	#10
Jabs Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pella, IA Posts: 114	Why not use major league tie-breaker rules in the game? I found an article from Baseball Prospectus dated September 10, 2003. Here are a few scenarios: What if New York and Boston tie for the division lead and have the same record as the West runner-up? Something like this, for instance: New York 95-67 .586 Oakland 96-66 .593 Boston 95-67 .586 Seattle 95-67 .586 In the past, Boston and New York would have faced off in a one-game playoff, with the winner taking the division and the loser going home. The Mariners would have been awarded the Wild Card title, by virtue of having the best non-division-leader record. For example, if the Red Sox had beaten the Yankees in a playoff, then the final season standings would have looked like this: Boston 96-67 .589 Oakland 96-66 .593 New York 95-68 .583 Seattle 95-67 .586 It always seemed unfair that only two of the three teams would have to play an elimination game, and one team would qualify for the playoffs without having to play their way in. Luckily, it never came to pass. In a shocking display of common sense, Major League Baseball decided not to stop after one game, but will force all the teams with the same record to play at least one elimination game. Rather than scheduling tee times, the loser of the Yankees-Red Sox playoff game would now play the Mariners (at a coin-flip determined location) to see who is awarded the Wild Card playoff entry. This passage deals with the three way ties: Moving to the AL Central, a two-way tie would be determined by a normal one-game playoff. A three-way tie is a little messier; it would be determined by a two-game playoff. The three teams would be seeded based on their combined record against the other two teams, which currently stand at: White Sox 16-10 .615 Royals 16-15 .516 Twins 13-20 .394 The White Sox play the Twins five more times and the Royals seven more times, but let's assume that the teams remain in this order. The White Sox would get first choice in a two-game playoff where Team A plays at Team B, and the winner hosts Team C. Once the White Sox make their pick (most likely Team C), the Royals would make theirs (Team B), and the Twins would be Team A. This would set up a Twins-Royals game in Kansas City, with the winner hosting the White Sox to determine the division champion. And then I also found this info, written by the same person, on a website (all-baseball.com). It looks like it may be a bit easier to understand in this format. He mentions some of it may be out of date, but I don't know how much of it has changed in the past few years. Here is the information on playoff tie-breakers, courtesy of the Major League Baseball website. This information was originally published in 1999, and some of it is out of date. For the most current play-off tiebreaker scenarios for the 2003 season, check out Everything You Always Wanted to Know about Playoff Tiebreakers but Were Afraid to Ask, which I wrote for Baseball Prospectus. Major League Baseball Playoff Tiebreaker Info (1999) When there is a tie for a Division Championship and the breaking of the tie will result in the losing team nonetheless being the Wild Card team, the Division Champion shall be: a. the team with the better record in head-to-head competition, or in the event the teams have the same record in head-to-head competition, b. the team with the better record, based on winning percentage in intradivisional competition, or, in the event the two teams have the same intradivisional winning percentages, c. the team with the better record in League competition over the last 81 games played by each team, or, in the event the two teams have the same records over this period, d. the team with the better record in League competition over the last 82 games, provided that the 82nd game was not a game between the tied teams. If necessary, the subparagraph (d.) procedure of adding the immediately preceding game played by each team records shall be continued until such time as one team emerges with a better record and that team shall thereupon be declared the Division Champion and the other team shall be declared the Wild Card team. When there is a tie for a Division Championship and the breaking of that tie will result in the losing team(s) not being the Wild Card team, the tie for the Division Championship shall be broken as follows: a. Tie between two teams. The League President shall conduct a coin flip to determine the site of a playoff game between the two teams, the game to be played the day after the conclusion of the championship season. The winner of the game shall be declared the Division Champion. b. Tie among three teams. If the tied teams have identical records against each other, the League President shall supervise a draw which results in the tied teams being designated the A, B and C teams. A will play B at the home field of A, the day after the conclusion of the championship season. The following day, C will play the winner of A-B at the winner’s home field. The winner of the game shall be declared the Division Champion. When, however, the tied teams do not have identical records against each other, their designation as the A, B, or C teams shall be determined as follows: Team 1 has better record against both Team 2 and Team 3, and Team 2 has better record against Team 3: Team 1 chooses designation as A, B or C team, and Team 2 chooses from remaining choices; Team 1 has better record against both Team 2 and Team 3, and Team 2 and Team 3 have same record against each other: Team 1 chooses designation as A, B or C team and League President supervises draw between Teams 2 and 3 for remaining choices; Team 1 and Team 2 have same record against each other but better record against Team 3: League President supervises draw between Teams 1 and 2. Winner chooses designation as A, B or C team and loser chooses from remaining choices; Team 1 has better record against Team 2, Team 2 has better record against Team 3, and Team 3 has better record against Team 1: Rank teams on the basis of overall winning percentage within the three-team group; team(s) with higher percentages select designation as A, B or C teams(s); when two or more teams tied in overall winning percentage, League President supervises draw between teams so tied. c. Tie among four teams. The League President shall supervise a draw which results in the tied teams being designated the A, B, C and D teams. A will play B at the home field of A, and C will play D at the home field of C, both games to be played the day after the conclusion of the championship season. The following day, the winners will play at the home field of A, or, if A lost that of B. The winner of the game shall be declared the Division Champion. When there is a tie for a Division Championship and the tied teams have the same record as a team having the better record of the second place teams in the other two divisions, the Division Championship tie shall be broken as follows: a. Tie among two teams for Division Championship with one team having the better record of the second place teams in the other two divisions. The League President shall conduct a coin flip to determine the site of a playoff game between the two teams tied for the Division Championship, the game to be played the day after the conclusion of the championship series. The winner of the game shall be declared Division Champion and the team with the better record of the second place teams in the other two divisions shall be declared the Wild Card team. b. Tie among three teams for a Division Championship, and one team having the better record of the second place teams in the other two divisions. The League President shall supervise a draw which results in the three teams tied for the Division Championship being designated the A, B and C teams. A will play B at then home field of A, the day after the conclusion of the championship season. The following day, C will play the winner of A-B at winner’s home field. The winner of that game will be declared Division Champion and the team with the better record of the second place teams in the other two divisions, on the basis of its winning percentage, shall be declared the Wild Card team; provided that where Team C defeats the winner of the game between teams A and B, the team it defeats, on the basis of its winning percentage, shall be declared the wild card team when the tied teams’ winning percentages, at the conclusion of the championship season, were below .500. c. Tie among two teams for Division Championships in two different divisions, and second place team in remaining division. The League President shall conduct two coin flips to determine the sites of the playoff games between the two teams in each division tied for their Division Championships, both games to be played the day after the conclusion of the championship season. The winners of the games shall be declared Division Champions and the second place team in the remaining division shall be declared, on the basis of its winning percentage, the Wild Card team. When there is a tie which affects only the determination of the wild card team and not the determination of a Division Champion, the tie shall be broken as follows: a. Tie between two teams, in any divisions. The League President shall conduct a coin flip to determine the site of a playoff game between the two teams, the game to be played the day after the conclusion of the championship season. The winner of the game shall be declared the Wild Card team. b. Tie among three teams, in any division. If the tied teams have identical records against each other, the League President shall supervise a draw which results in the tied teams being designated the A, B and C teams. A will play B at the home field of A, the day after the conclusion of the championship season. The following day, C will play the winner of A-B at the winner’s home field. The winner of the game shall be declared the Wild Card team. When, however, the tied teams do not have identical records against each other, their designation as the A, B or C teams shall be determined in accordance with the procedures set forth in subparagraphs 2(b) (1-4) above. c. Tie among four teams, in any division. The League President shall supervise a draw which results in the tied teams being designated the A, B, C and D teams. A will play B at the home field of A, and C will play D at the home field of C, both games to be played the day after the conclusion of the championship season. The following day, the winners will play at the home field of A, or if A lost, that of B. The winner of the game shall be declared the Wild Card team. I don't know how hard it would be to code this type of thing into the game, but if it is possible, it would definitely be nice to have real baseball rules to handle tie-breakers.

03-01-2005, 12:32 AM	#11
Eric All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: Folsom, CA Posts: 1,234	I ran a simulation using Halofan's 2005 rosters and wound up with the Orioles, Yankees and the Tigers in a three-way tie for the wildcard. OOTP6 just had a one game playoff between the Red Sox and the Tigers. Baltimore was 9-4 against New York Baltimore was 8-5 against Detroit New York was 6-4 against Detroit So my guess would be that Team ID# was the deciding factor. I'm moving my team to Abbeville just in case.

03-01-2005, 07:05 AM	#13
SandMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,946	The playoff is determined in alphabetical order. I just had a league with a 4 way tie out of 8 teams. Pi$$ed me off that I was Milwaukee and did not even get a chance for the wildcard. Appleton and Green Bay played 1 game, Appleton won finished 1st, Green Bay slid to 4th and I finished 2nd tied with Sheboygan .5 games behind. To solve this issue in the future I plan on just adding a game to the schedule when I have a tie between more than 2 teams.